1 hour ago, ProDee said:

So now Hogan is too short for a key forward ?  FMD.  People's brains must explode with some of their theories.

What I can say is that no 200cm key forward has ever been a consistently dominant forward in the history of the game.  Ever.  That may change, but the next will be a pioneer (Salmon injured early).

 

Spot on. And I doubt it will ever change.

The greatest full forwards of all time were all shorter than Hogan.

Ablett Snr and Dunstall were the same height as Brayshaw and Petracca.  And yes the game changes, but if Ablett snr and Dunstall were playing today they would still dominate.  Modra was 188 cms, A Jakovich 187.

Neitz, Carey, Lloyd, Fevola, Lockett all in the low 190's.

Edited September 23, 20168 yr by Petraccattack

8 hours ago, DemonWA said:

I think you nailed it when you said- 'deliberately downplayed his ability to soften the blow they think is coming when he leaves'

Put me in the not worth keeping group. He is a distraction now and also in the future for whoever he plays for. Needs a big attitude makeover to turn me.

Edited September 23, 20168 yr by america de cali

9 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Put me in the not worth keeping group. He is a distraction now and also in the future for whoever he plays In the future. Needs a big attitude makeover to turn me.

I'm very tried to get through this thread amd some of the rubbish posted, and you've been a key contributer so far. But this takes the cake. Onto ignore, next to only osilak, which shows I've got a fair tolerance for rubbish posts. 

6 minutes ago, Generation dee said:

I'm very tried to get through this thread amd some of the rubbish posted, and you've been a key contributer so far. But this takes the cake. Onto ignore, next to only osilak, which shows I've got a fair tolerance for rubbish posts. 

If you can't handle diverse opinions, head buried in sand is the best place to be.

5 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Hurts to say but he is GONE - review facts (not opinions or perceptions) below.

Facts::

• 1 yr ago, Freo who were seen as the likely destination club, were flying and looking to add a key forward to their line up to get that elusive flag
• 1 yr ago, MFC had shown improvement under Roos but still had signficant offensive issues and still looked a few years away from contending in finals
• 1 yr ago, we were told, neogitations were postponed for 1 yr to see how the MFC was performing and for Jessie to concentrate of footy and take heat out of debate
• This year, Freo have performed poorly and are set for a significant rebuild or reset. West coast had another 'finals' year and have publicly stated they want Jessie
• This year, MFC have improved significantly by honing its offensive game
• This year, Goodwin stated recently that it was now the end of the year and talks should therefore commence with Jessie as promised. Media pressure subsequently mounted on Jessie, and we were told, negotiations won't commence for some time and Jessie was struggling between improving mfc and returning to WA

So in summary, promised improvement in MFC happened, negotiations that were promised didn't happen, playing at Freo is no longer an attractive option, West Coast have emerged as an interested party and played in another finals series.Most of the points for Jessie staying are mostly based on hope (I still do this from time to time but are reminded of Scully's final year).

Put yourself in Jessie's shoes and assume he is going for a moment..He has a contract so will stick to it unless MFC approach him. Freo looked like his preferred option but he doesn't want to be involved in another team rebuild. So by waiting another year, his value will build in the market place and he can assess whether Freo will bounce back or whether West coast become a better option.

For the MFC, trading for Jessie now would be pointless as the best players that are interested in a move have already decided their clubs. So we can't really trade for any high quality players this year only picks (and we can always trade for picks next year anyway). So its in our interest for Jessie to stay with us this year, while we work with player mgrs to pick up some a-grade talent next year with the picks we get for Jessie and gain slightly more mature talent before finals footy

Like your post 1858. 

History tells us players who indicate whey want to stay with a club only to put contract talks on hold rarely stay. So yep all indications point towards him leaving.

in regards to trading him this year or next year if he comes out now and says I want to go trading him this year might actually get us a better deal.  Freo have pick 3.

Also trading him now would mean we don't have a media circus next year.

 

So much reverse psychology going on in this thread. 

If Jesse stays he's the complete player. 

If Jesse goes he wasn't that good anyway. 

30 minutes ago, Flamingdees said:

So much reverse psychology going on in this thread. 

If Jesse stays he's the complete player. 

If Jesse goes he wasn't that good anyway. 

Hey Flamingdees,

Welcome to the thread. What are your thoughts on Jesse's situation? I'm not sure I've seen you post on the topic yet.

36 minutes ago, Flamingdees said:

Like your post 1858. 

History tells us players who indicate whey want to stay with a club only to put contract talks on hold rarely stay. So yep all indications point towards him leaving.

in regards to trading him this year or next year if he comes out now and says I want to go trading him this year might actually get us a better deal.  Freo have pick 3.

Also trading him now would mean we don't have a media circus next year.

 

Hypothetically,. an agreement  could have been made in principle  with Freo when they were riding high last season. Since  then they have fallen in a heap and there appears to be a lot of player unrest.  Now WC are also in the picture.  Not surprised if cold feet  have come into play.

4 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Hypothetically,. an agreement  could have been made in principle  with Freo when they were riding high last season. Since  then they have fallen in a heap and there appears to be a lot of player unrest.  Now WC are also in the picture.  Not surprised if cold feet  have come into play.

Why do you always think the worst?

Have we traded him yet?

Just now, Redleg said:

Why do you always think the worst?

Seen enough of the game for a long time to be cynical about everything involved with it. 

16 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

Hey Flamingdees,

Welcome to the thread. What are your thoughts on Jesse's situation? I'm not sure I've seen you post on the topic yet.

Hey Kent, I've always only spoke highly of Jesse and talked him up as a player with a [censored] load of potential. 

7 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Why do you always think the worst?

Bit hard not to think the worst when your a Dee's supporter. 

49 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

Hey Flamingdees,

Welcome to the thread. What are your thoughts on Jesse's situation? I'm not sure I've seen you post on the topic yet.

 

48 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Seen enough of the game for a long time to be cynical about everything involved with it. 

More fool you then for staying involved.  I still love it.

7 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Hurts to say but he is GONE - review facts (not opinions or perceptions) below.

Facts::

• 1 yr ago, Freo who were seen as the likely destination club, were flying and looking to add a key forward to their line up to get that elusive flag
• 1 yr ago, MFC had shown improvement under Roos but still had signficant offensive issues and still looked a few years away from contending in finals
• 1 yr ago, we were told, neogitations were postponed for 1 yr to see how the MFC was performing and for Jessie to concentrate of footy and take heat out of debate
• This year, Freo have performed poorly and are set for a significant rebuild or reset. West coast had another 'finals' year and have publicly stated they want Jessie
• This year, MFC have improved significantly by honing its offensive game
• This year, Goodwin stated recently that it was now the end of the year and talks should therefore commence with Jessie as promised. Media pressure subsequently mounted on Jessie, and we were told, negotiations won't commence for some time and Jessie was struggling between improving mfc and returning to WA

So in summary, promised improvement in MFC happened, negotiations that were promised didn't happen, playing at Freo is no longer an attractive option, West Coast have emerged as an interested party and played in another finals series.Most of the points for Jessie staying are mostly based on hope (I still do this from time to time but are reminded of Scully's final year).

 

May I note that the highlighted point is inaccurate.  Not sure if you heard Goodwin's interview last week or using previous posts which selectively quoted Goodwin. While Goodwin did say the end of the year had arrived and it was time for talks to commence which the club and Jesse's management would now do, he went on to say that he was comfortable if the contract was not signed for a few weeks, months or even the middle of next year.  So I don't know how you can say the negotiations that were promised didn't happen nor that there was media pressure on anyone.  Goodwin's gave a simple answer to a simple question on Jesse's contract status.   Now everyone in the media and on Demonland is speculating.

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by Lucifer's Hero

6 hours ago, ProDee said:

FMD.  People's brains must explode with some of their theories.

Adding this into your reply is precisely what is wrong with this place. Inflammatory comments thrown at you when you share your opinion. No class at all.  Ignored.

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by DominatrixTyson

2 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

Adding this into your reply is precisely what is wrong with this place. Inflammatory comments thrown at you when you share your opinion. No class at all.  Ignored.

Waiting for Sydney's season to finish.

If we can get T Mitchell and and a replacement CHF (say Vickery) for a trade with Hogan, I would be happy.

Then we just need Weid and Hulett to continue a strong development and we will be in a good position. We'd need to keep Dawes and Pedo as back ups. 

Hogan to Freo. First round pick from Freo to Swans. 2nd or 3rd round pick from Freo to Tiges. Mitchell and Vickery to Dees. Perhaps we could get an extra pick in there too.

That'd work? 

 

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by Kaiser Bill

Years ago when a player was coming into his final year of there contract not much was said, but now its just mayhem. Contracts seem a bit pointless now. Clubs seem to target players from other clubs. Now Dustin Martin is being targeted which forces Richmond to look to extend it which they may not want to do at this point of the year. 

Media are saying that the 2 WA clubs believe Hogan is gettable this year. Maybe Jesse is just having a think on what he wants to do and with his dad the contract is probably the furthest thing from his mind. He may just come out int he next few months and sign on. But yes if this mayhem continues throughout next year and by june/july he still hasnt signed then he is going. 

The saga continues. 

10 minutes ago, Kaiser Bill said:

If we can get T Mitchell and and a replacement CHF (say Vickery) for a trade with Hogan, I would be happy.

Then we just need Weid and Hulett to continue a strong development and we will be in a good position. We'd need to keep Dawes and Pedo as back ups. 

Hogan to Freo. First round pick from Freo to Swans. 2nd or 3rd round pick from Freo to Tiges. Mitchell and Vickery to Dees. Perhaps we could get an extra pick in there too.

That'd work? 

 

Tom Mitchell and Tyrone Vickery for Jesse Hogan? Is that a sick joke?!

11 minutes ago, Kaiser Bill said:

If we can get T Mitchell and and a replacement CHF (say Vickery) for a trade with Hogan, I would be happy.

Then we just need Weid and Hulett to continue a strong development and we will be in a good position. We'd need to keep Dawes and Pedo as back ups. 

Hogan to Freo. First round pick from Freo to Swans. 2nd or 3rd round pick from Freo to Tiges. Mitchell and Vickery to Dees. Perhaps we could get an extra pick in there too.

That'd work? 

 

If Vickery came to this club as a rusty steak knives trade I would be [censored], let alone being involved in any way, shape or form with a Hogan trade. It would be quite possibly the dumbest move by any club in the history of the game.

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by DSP

4 hours ago, Flamingdees said:

Like your post 1858. 

History tells us players who indicate whey want to stay with a club only to put contract talks on hold rarely stay. So yep all indications point towards him leaving.

in regards to trading him this year or next year if he comes out now and says I want to go trading him this year might actually get us a better deal.  Freo have pick 3.

Also trading him now would mean we don't have a media circus next year.

 

Flamingdees, your point on trading is valid.

It's a fine balance between potentially getting the best picks this year and there not being many a-grade players on the market vs potentially getting slightly lesser picks next year but there will likely be more a-grade talent available that hasn't yet committed.

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

May I note that the highlighted point is inaccurate.  Not sure if you heard Goodwin's interview last week or using previous posts which selectively quoted Goodwin. While Goodwin did say the end of the year had arrived and it was time for talks to commence which the club and Jesse's management would now do, he went on to say that he was comfortable if the contract was not signed for a few weeks, months or even the middle of next year.  So I don't know how you can say the negotiations that were promised didn't happen nor that there was media pressure on anyone.  Goodwin's gave a simple answer to a simple question on Jesse's contract status.   Now everyone in the media and on Demonland is speculating.

Hey Lucifer, thanks for taking an interest in my post. What did you think about the essence or theme of the post? Agree or disagree?

Sorry if I have misquoted an aspect of Goodwin comments (it was from the media interview he did to announce his formal appointment with Bartlett by his side where he doesn't talk about 'weeks, month, mid year etc" not sure were that came from).

Nonetheless, the essence of my statements are intact I believe. He agreed to commence negotiation in a years time assuming MFC were improved and that's not going to happen soon if he is stating though mgmt that he is torn about returning to WA. To commence negotiations he needs to tell the club he's prepared to live in Melbourne if the right contact is in place, then MFC can go about putting the figires together to present to him. At the moment there can be no negotiations just Jessie buying more time