2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

There is no way I'd trade him - a value exchange wouldn't be there.

I don't think decision making is a big problem - I suspect he and the team are being instructed to take the game on and he's following instructions.  

And that always explains why he can kick a ball out of bounds  when looking to pass upfield... or straight to an opponent.  Or getting pinged through a lack of awareness.

He does some absolute shockers at times which bely otherwise good sense.  Again , he seems more than capable of these movements at training.

The problems with a stats especially one like 80% efficiency is firstly..its krap  as the criteria is as dodgy as all hell. But even going with it that 20%  that isnt often comes flying back as scoreboard punishment.

TMac will undoubtedly be persevered with. That wasnt the actual question of the OP.  Im sure other clubs may feel him out.  The club should at least hear them out.

2 hours ago, Nasher said:

.  I'd be livid if we traded him for draft picks.

So might his brother. 

11 hours ago, The Reverend said:

Jack Viney and Bernie Vince are rated as 1 and 2 for clangers with 27 and 23 respectively, whilst Tom MacDonald sits on 11 clangers. I understand that stats don't always tell the whole story and that a mistake in the back-line can be costly but consider also that if the midfield clangers weren't occurring, maybe the ball wouldn't be in our defensive half quite as much and defenders like TMac who attack the ball would not be under so much pressure. In fact if you have a look at the top five here, it's interesting to see that four of them are defenders. i find that sort of comforting.

I've always thought that clangers is an interesting statistic.  If you look at the top 3 clangerers(?) for some of the top teams, it's often their best players. Eg for North: Cunnington, Wells and Ziebell, for Geelong it's Duncan, Selwood and Dangerfield, for GWS it's Shiel, Griffen and Ward and so on.  As you point out, for us it's Viney, Vince and Watts.  You don't tend to think of these players as turnover merchants though.  I suppose what it doesn't say is the impact of those turnovers - e.g. a Viney handball in traffic may go directly to an opponent, therefore be recorded as a clanger, but that player is then immediately tackled and a ball-up results. You'd think a McDonald clanger is usually more likely to be of high impact given where he plays and the manner in which he usually gets rid of the ball.  That's a very hard statistic to analyse though.

If ever there was a perfect match for Riewoldt in the AFL it is Tom McDonald. He has the height, speed and endurance to go with Nick and has done so before. Everything written about Tom has indicated he is meticulous in his preparation and is the perfect professional. There were a couple of matches prior to 2014 where you could say he had Nicks measure or close to it. 

When Riewoldt started to run riot surely that would be the time to reorganise the zone defence and get Tom to not leave his side for the rest of the day. There was obviously a good reason why this didn't happen but I'm not sure what it was.

As for should if we should keep him or not, of course we should. He is a vital cog in this side with the character to become a multiple AA CHB. We have seen him enough at that standard he just needs to do so more consistently

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

to suggest he isnt tradable is more lauaghable

Youre missing the point

The poll says '"in your opinion is he tradeable"? my opinion NO.....of course every player is tradeable, sorry Sheriff forgot pedantics rule

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

With a player like McDonald you back your coaches and club environment to improve the player and tighten his game.  Get him to play within his limitations.  Great coaching groups don't trade out young defenders and leaders of McDonald's ilk.  They back themselves to get the best out of him.

1 hour ago, Radar Detector said:

A friend of mine had a sponsors "inner sanctum" day with a top four club recently and had incredible access to the club. He trained with the team and spent the entire day tagging along with the coaching staff. One of the things that coach said to him that really resonated was that good clubs approach trading by looking at players who have desirable elite attributes and their flaws are almost irrelevant to the decision. Good clubs back themselves to exploit the positive traits and iron out any faults the player may have.

This, to me, is the right approach with Tom. His "good attributes" are extremely desirable. By the time we are really challenging, the club should back itself to improve his weaknesses. Many players, our captain included, have managed to overcome issues with disposal and decision making over time.

 

So I take it you agree with the above ?

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

The poll says '"in your opinion is he tradeable"? my opinion NO.....of course every player is tradeable, sorry Sheriff forgot pedantics rule

The question of the poll does not say ...in your opinion. It's asks is he tradable. 

Your opinion will lead to an answer but if you're going to argue as a pedant. Get it right Id suggest.

32 minutes ago, WhyAlwaysMe said:

this topic has revealed 22.83% of us are morons

statistics show that 50% of posters are correct but the other 60% haven't got a clue

31 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I've always thought that clangers is an interesting statistic.  If you look at the top 3 clangerers(?) for some of the top teams, it's often their best players. Eg for North: Cunnington, Wells and Ziebell, for Geelong it's Duncan, Selwood and Dangerfield, for GWS it's Shiel, Griffen and Ward and so on.  As you point out, for us it's Viney, Vince and Watts.  You don't tend to think of these players as turnover merchants though.  I suppose what it doesn't say is the impact of those turnovers - e.g. a Viney handball in traffic may go directly to an opponent, therefore be recorded as a clanger, but that player is then immediately tackled and a ball-up results. You'd think a McDonald clanger is usually more likely to be of high impact given where he plays and the manner in which he usually gets rid of the ball.  That's a very hard statistic to analyse though.

Maybe we need a new stat, like 'clanger goal assists' or something. A stat showing if a clanger resulted in a goal or not.

Or maybe a different word it? Like 'clanger' is just what we mean right now, but a 'glanger' is a clanger that directly results in a goal?

So Viney/Dangerfield/Ziebell would have might clangers, but Tmac has high glangers.

Edit: yes, I am a wordsmith. Fear my wordly power.

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by Choke

22 minutes ago, Choke said:

Maybe we need a new stat, like 'clanger goal assists' or something. A stat showing if a clanger resulted in a goal or not.

Or maybe a different word it? Like 'clanger' is just what we mean right now, but a 'glanger' is a clanger that directly results in a goal?

So Viney/Dangerfield/Ziebell would have might clangers, but Tmac has high glangers.

Edit: yes, I am a wordsmith. Fear my wordly power.

They do have this stat. "Points conceded from turnover". Jack Viney leads that stat for us as per this article from a couple of weeks ago: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-20/giving-it-away.*  This would correlate to the first part of Nasher's example above: if that errant handball in the heat of a stoppage didn't result in a tackle, but rather a score it would be recorded against that stat

* I couldn't find more recent data. There's some decent names in that list too: Bontempelli, Enright, Shiel, Zaharakis, Montagna. That also supports Nasher's premise. So I guess what I'm saying is you're great Nasher .

11 minutes ago, Thrice said:

They do have this stat. "Points conceded from turnover". Jack Viney leads that stat for us as per this article from a couple of weeks ago: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-20/giving-it-away.*  This would correlate to the first part of Nasher's example above: if that errant handball in the heat of a stoppage didn't result in a tackle, but rather a score it would be recorded against that stat

* I couldn't find more recent data. There's some decent names in that list too: Bontempelli, Enright, Shiel, Zaharakis, Montagna. That also supports Nasher's premise. So I guess what I'm saying is you're great Nasher .

Interesting article, thanks for that

I can't find any of the actual data either, just the article 

Absouletly not, would be filthy if we traded McDonald and i would take him over an injury prone Hurley anyday

bahahahaahahahahahahhahahahaha

why is it ?  We get a good kid who turns into a really good player and then all we want to do is bag him ?? 

Makes me wonder the thought processes involved.

Surely loyalty gets better resul;ts, because this time next year the boots will be into someone else.

Discussion is good when it is constructive.

We got Tmac for Pick 52, his brother for the same pick. I think we were all surprised at TMac's quick ascent into KPD. He will go to the next level.  Let both of them grow into the roles they were drafted. We are very patient with Midfielders growing into their roles : ala Brayshaw,Petracca,ANB,Salem,Oliver , then surely we can be a bit patient with others.

Alex Rance used to be a notoriously bad decision maker. 

 

*queue jibes about the hit on watts....

come on you kids on demonland  ???

do you really trade a fullback at 24 

you kids on demonland what is your perfect team

15 under 19"s 

8 under 21

3 under 23's

i hope no one at MFC reads this rubbish 

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

The question of the poll does not say ...in your opinion. It's asks is he tradable. 

Your opinion will lead to an answer but if you're going to argue as a pedant. Get it right Id suggest.

That's what it is asking, everybody knows each player is tradeable, read the first post, it was to get debate going on here, a faint chance of that happening, (not much happening in your life at the moment I take it), have an opinion on whether he should be traded?

12 hours ago, Jaded said:

Recent comments where and by whom?

Most notably it was Lord Travis on the Post Match Discussion thread, quoting "a friend who works at the club and can pass on that the coaching staff singled out a few players in the review."

 

 

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by Chook

56 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

That's what it is asking, everybody knows each player is tradeable, read the first post, it was to get debate going on here, a faint chance of that happening, (not much happening in your life at the moment I take it), have an opinion on whether he should be traded?

I know very well WHAT it's asks. I strangely enough can fathom that.

You chose to get clever and pedantic and fell on your derriere my friend.

All of DL is opinion. 

But the question was framed. You want to box clever.... Fine.

I have no problems with opinions. I have one myself.

I suggest decision on players by clubs ought to be disparate, no emotional aspect. I.e what is best for club.

As this game goes on players will move around more and more.

I'm about Melbourne. Not fussed ( other than Druggies) who plays. It's about the jumper.

20 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Well...? 

What a disgraceful post - can everyone please take note of this guy and add him to your [censored] list.

He doesn't even have the guts to attempt to explain his view in a balanced way.

So which defender in the league always makes the right decisions? And which Demon showed off sensational kicking skills last week - I can't think of one. It may surprise you that when team's lose the ball usually spends more time in the defence and probably means opposing sides are pressing well which means that errors become more common among all players - but this may surprise you - amazingly the errors made by backman have more impact because surprise, surprise they are closer to the goal they are attempting to defend.

As a case in point on kicking skills, our best kick as judged by Paul Roos, given that he is given the kick-out duties, is apparently meant to by Christian Salem. Did you happen to notice that last week he was racing down the wing and stubbed a short kick to Pedo that was about as bad as Jordie McKenzie.

So instead of picking on the guy who most sane people regard as our best defender, why don't you spot all the good things he does each week and make a note. You never know one day you may even appreciate him. 

And please do not ever start a topic again unless you have something to say!  

48 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

What a disgraceful post - can everyone please take note of this guy and add him to your [censored] list.

He doesn't even have the guts to attempt to explain his view in a balanced way.

So which defender in the league always makes the right decisions? And which Demon showed off sensational kicking skills last week - I can't think of one. It may surprise you that when team's lose the ball usually spends more time in the defence and probably means opposing sides are pressing well which means that errors become more common among all players - but this may surprise you - amazingly the errors made by backman have more impact because surprise, surprise they are closer to the goal they are attempting to defend.

As a case in point on kicking skills, our best kick as judged by Paul Roos, given that he is given the kick-out duties, is apparently meant to by Christian Salem. Did you happen to notice that last week he was racing down the wing and stubbed a short kick to Pedo that was about as bad as Jordie McKenzie.

So instead of picking on the guy who most sane people regard as our best defender, why don't you spot all the good things he does each week and make a note. You never know one day you may even appreciate him. 

And please do not ever start a topic again unless you have something to say!  

Really

Laughable. 

He's far from perfect

Tom is not tradable, yet. With Omac in the wings, and maybe even Hulett or Joel Smith and some raiding of GWS, he might become so.

I reckon he is a absolute gun but he should be advised to handball as 1st option and only kick down the line as a last option. His kicking decision making is the worst I have seen and this includes Simon Godfrey and Ben Holland.

No.

He has his weaknesses with disposal but his intercept marking and spoiling and athleticism are elite and hard to replace. How about we work on his decision making and disposal.

There are only a few players on our list i would deem as simply 'untouchable' (last years draftees not considered).

They are Hogan, N. Jones, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw and Gawn. Outside of this list, anyone is trade-able............for the right price.

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by Demon Disciple

Definitely not. Unless someone else steps up to the plate in defence and overtakes him our defence would be awful.