Drop Hogan

[Deecisive 1,709]

Coaches need to get a sports psychologist to help work on hogans desire to compete. His desire to compete at the moment is solely focused on the mark, nothing else. If he misses the mark he has a tendency to stand back and let the opposition players sweep the ball away. He is not a great chaser (but the same could be said for a lot of our players at the moment) and he is not a great tackler. He looses interest in the contest too quickly. If he has a true desire for the ball then he will find ways to win the ball, it may not always be the first effort or the second but he will win a lot more of the ball. 

[jumbo returns 6,703]

3 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

Coaches need to get a sports psychologist to help work on hogans desire to compete. His desire to compete at the moment is solely focused on the mark, nothing else. If he misses the mark he has a tendency to stand back and let the opposition players sweep the ball away. He is not a great chaser (but the same could be said for a lot of our players at the moment) and he is not a great tackler. He looses interest in the contest too quickly. If he has a true desire for the ball then he will find ways to win the ball, it may not always be the first effort or the second but he will win a lot more of the ball. 

But he was such a beast when he played for Casey.....he'd hunt his own ball!?!

He's been Demonfied!

[bush demon 1,989]

ironically he saved our bacon with a punch away after gawn handed it to gws

 

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 4,748]

Footy Classified in 45: He'll be quizzed on it I reckon.

As to the issue, Jesse seemed to have a licence to roam - and impose himself on the whole game - last year and the earlier games but usually seemed bolted into the arc on Saturday. A role miscalculated?

[dieter 3,325]

7 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

Coaches need to get a sports psychologist to help work on hogans desire to compete. His desire to compete at the moment is solely focused on the mark, nothing else. If he misses the mark he has a tendency to stand back and let the opposition players sweep the ball away. He is not a great chaser (but the same could be said for a lot of our players at the moment) and he is not a great tackler. He looses interest in the contest too quickly. If he has a true desire for the ball then he will find ways to win the ball, it may not always be the first effort or the second but he will win a lot more of the ball. 

Sacre Bleu. All of us need the psychologists, not the players, not the coaches. What the fluck do we know about the ins and outs. For example, apparently Dunn - and I DO want him in the side - came off in the practice game against Box Hill exclaiming he was phucked. That's most probably the real reason he hasn't scored a game. And I know it's a cheap shot, but exactly how many games of football has Deecisive played? Seriously, there are times when I wonder just why I spend so much time reading the musings of besotted amateurs who have some idealized version of where we should be. We are here now, as Iggy Popp says, deal with the real, we are simply a second to third rate side. We don't link up, we expect the world from Hogan and I'm here to tell you, Jesse Hogan is not Jesus Christ. 

[Deecisive 1,709]

4 minutes ago, dieter said:

Sacre Bleu. All of us need the psychologists, not the players, not the coaches. What the fluck do we know about the ins and outs. For example, apparently Dunn - and I DO want him in the side - came off in the practice game against Box Hill exclaiming he was phucked. That's most probably the real reason he hasn't scored a game. And I know it's a cheap shot, but exactly how many games of football has Deecisive played? Seriously, there are times when I wonder just why I spend so much time reading the musings of besotted amateurs who have some idealized version of where we should be. We are here now, as Iggy Popp says, deal with the real, we are simply a second to third rate side. We don't link up, we expect the world from Hogan and I'm here to tell you, Jesse Hogan is not Jesus Christ. 

If Hogan was jesus Christ then I would not play him in the forward line but out of the centre, as he is only Jesse Hogan, he needs a run somewhere we he can concentrate on getting the ball and moving it on. if it is not working for him in the forward line then put him in the backline to get him some touches.

 

 

[dieter 3,325]

Just now, Deecisive said:

If Hogan was jesus Christ then I would not play him in the forward line but out of the centre, as he is only Jesse Hogan, he needs a run somewhere we he can concentrate on getting the ball and moving it on. if it is not working for him in the forward line then put him in the backline to get him some touches.

 

 

That's fine, but all we're doing is simply bombing it in his direction and he always has 3 players minding him. I'd be pzzed off if I was J. Hogan. We won't talk about the umpires. Let's just say that if J.Hogan was called J. Hird he would have kicked 20 goals this season.

[SaberFang 7,151]

For the love of Christ, WHY is it so hard for the players to kick pinpoint passes to him instead of bombing it (where 3 opposition players can just crash into him and make marking impossible).

It's so bleedingly obvious, I can't begin to comprehend why, how, or who is implementing this ridiculous forward entry approach. And why is nothing changing?!

[rpfc 28,045]

horrific  (hɒˈrɪfɪk  ; hə-) 

Definitions

adjective

1. provoking horror; horrible

Derived Forms

 horˈrifically  adverb

Synonyms

View thesaurus entry

= horrifying, shocking, appalling, frightening, awful, terrifying, grim, dreadful, horrendous,ghastly, from hell (informal), grisly, frightful,

 

#wordsmatter

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

For the love of Christ, WHY is it so hard for the players to kick pinpoint passes to him instead of bombing it (where 3 opposition players can just crash into him and make marking impossible).

It's so bleedingly obvious, I can't begin to comprehend why, how, or who is implementing this ridiculous forward entry approach. And why is nothing changing?!

Maybe it's partly because he's not leading well enough or to the right spots, and he has spuds like Pedersen getting in his way and not spreading?..... Might not be 100% the mids fault.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Just now, stuie said:

Maybe it's partly because he's not leading well enough or to the right spots, and he has spuds like Pedersen getting in his way and not spreading?..... Might not be 100% the mids fault.

There's absolutely no cohesion in the forward line, that much is clear. Why is it so hard to have marking targets in different quadrants of the forward 50, and crumbers ready to pick up the pieces? It's staggering how inept we look in marking contests (which shouldn't be happening in the first place, but our mids seem incapable of kicking low and fast).

[stuie 7,374]

2 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

There's absolutely no cohesion in the forward line, that much is clear. Why is it so hard to have marking targets in different quadrants of the forward 50, and crumbers ready to pick up the pieces? It's staggering how inept we look in marking contests (which shouldn't be happening in the first place, but our mids seem incapable of kicking low and fast).

Another part could be the tinkering with the game plan, that has seen us switching a lot more rather than going around the boundary, has effected the leading patterns and timing of the forwards. Low fast kicks sound good in theory, but when there's players between you and your target it's not quite possible.

My personal opinion is that we're struggling with the "new" gameplan and it's causing some hesitation and confusion. Hopefully gets ironed out as the year goes on, but we don't have the quickest learners in the world.

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 4,748]

Lloyd:

"I know they're talking to him internally"

"He'll get over it"

[leucopogon 1,517]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

But he was such a beast when he played for Casey.....he'd hunt his own ball!?!

He's been Demonfied!

the correct term is Melbournised jumbo

[Longsufferingnomore 1,604]

18 minutes ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

Lloyd:

"I know they're talking to him internally"

"He'll get over it"

Of course they are as well as the rest of the team. Typical Lloyd self important bluster.

[dazzledavey36 52,709]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Maybe it's partly because he's not leading well enough or to the right spots, and he has spuds like Pedersen getting in his way and not spreading?..... Might not be 100% the mids fault.

Give it a rest mate.

[Ted Lasso 18,759]

On 4/4/2016 at 8:13 PM, Rusty Nails said:

I would suggest he asks his coach/es for assistance from a top former ex forward to assist and guide him with his running/leading patterns, where to lead to and when (timing), doubling back towards goal and when to lead higher up the ground (ie., to read the play up the field and know when to lead/play a bit higher (50 meter area and beyond) in order to provide a marking option to a player under pressure around mid field or off HB.

I watched him closely on the weekend and he tends to be a little to "opponent" focused in my opinion. He wants to shake that opponent early as much as possible and try to break free with body work and early checking. That works fairly well at more junior levels and sometimes at AFL level also . But at AFL he is going to come up against some opponents who are just as powerful if not more powerful through the core than he is and in those matches he will need to vary his game and sometimes go to other weapons he has in order to be effective and win the day. There is also certain ways of pushing off an opponent that are more effective (body positioning etc). Having many options and reading the play, running the patterns with improved timing (etc) will keep his opponent guessing so he doesn't know what to expect next.

Certainly not saying he doesn't know or isn't trying some or all of these aspects of forward play effectively now and that the club isn't helping him but the assistance of a former great of the game with many years (and an old head) on him couldn't hurt. Even if he only learns a few things and adds 2 to 3 extra assets to his game. Every little bit helps.

I'm sure Dermy, Dunstall or Carey would be happy to go down and assist if he asked! Maybe even Lloydy himself. Just make sure he doesn't learn the art of staging off Matthew though... hated this part of his game! Was one helluva straight kick though, as was Dunstall. Dunstall was also amazing at using his body to work his opponent away from the drop of the ball and take a contested grab (clever use of the hips and a strong core).

I agree totally that it would help and i know he's been in touch with Carey once and Jonothan Brown a few times, i really think the issues Jesse is having are between the ears, he thinks he needs to be a match winner because he knows he's good enough, but he's forgetting to do the little things that made him such a good player like, Leading hard, repeat leads, chasing, harrassing, Tackling, getting to a heap of contests and at least bringing the ball to ground.

He still has the magic touch where those handballs always seem to set up goals, he just needs to work on the basics and get those right and he'll bounce back very strongly.

[KingDingAling 3,737]

I doubt we will drop him. Hogan would be well within his rights to ask what the hell is going on with the midfield. Perhaps even suggest a few changes. I don't particularly like Hogan's body language, but it wouldn't even be a talking point if the midfield could deliver him the football, and then he could do his job.

[stuie 7,374]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Give it a rest mate.

I'm allowed to give my opinion champ, just like you are about Garland... Every. Day.

Hypocrite.

 

[jnrmac 19,890]

Leave him alone. Mountains. Molehills.

We have bigger problems than Jesse.

[John Crow Batty 8,764]

Watched the Hawthorn game and the Hawks bomb the ball down as much as we do if not more. Their forward line gets crowded too. Difference is they all to a man fight to keep the ball there and crumb like hyenas. Not like us and let the ball waltz out with no pressure. Hogan is one of the biggest liabilities in maintaining forward pressure. With his size, strength and mobility, he should be  fearsome for defenders on the ground.

Edited April 4, 2016 by america de cali

[Pates 9,624]

Jesse has had a poor start to the year no doubt, but for me of the 8 quarters of the regular season the TEAM has only gelled in two of them. First and last v GWS, 3 quarter time last week and round 1 the coaches told them to be bold and move it quicker, I would expect that this is something they are meant to be doing anyway! Running, spreading, looking for that ball to pull the trigger on a break the lines. 

Jesse is certainly not the only one not pulling his weight and not doing what he's meant be doing. He's getting the headlines because he won the rising star last year and is expected to get a massive contract at his next negotiations. The expectation and scrutiny on this young bloke is incredible.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Pates

[nutbean 8,838]

30 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Watched the Hawthorn game and the Hawks bomb the ball down as much as we do if not more. Their forward line gets crowded too. Difference is they all to a man fight to keep the ball there and crumb like hyenas. Not like us and let the ball waltz out with no pressure. Hogan is one of the biggest liabilities in maintaining forward pressure. With his size, strength and mobility, he should be  fearsome for defenders on the ground.

I somewhat disagree - I do agree that we let the opposition waltz the ball out of our forward line  - but we bomb it in long soooo slowly compared to the Hawks.

Two things I noticed - there is nothing wrong with the switch and it can be a potent weapon but as soon as the switch is on you need committed gut runners to move across to the other side of the ground - make the space to receive. We switch and because our runners did not work hard enough  - we were stymied on the other side of the ground defeating the whole purpose of switching. So this allowed the opposition to continually get the zone right behind the ball. The only way to beat a zone is quick ball movement and gut running through the lines. 

Hawks - switch and then go like the clappers - they may bomb long but they do it quickly - a lot of the time to advantage  - even if it is not to great advantage if you do it quickly it does not allow the defense time to organise.

[dazzledavey36 52,709]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

I'm allowed to give my opinion champ, just like you are about Garland... Every. Day.

Hypocrite.

 

Of course you are allowed to give your opinion. But at least get it right first you hack.

If you actually take the time and watched the game properly the message was quite clear from last week that the forward line had to be be much more open. Pederson started at CHF and played more further upfield. 

Not once did Pedersen get in his way at all. The problem was the constant bombing it in to Hogan where Essendon had crowded quickly, Hogan not leading properly, and poor delivery into our forward fifty. Those were just some of the examples of why Hogan had a bad day.

If your going to try and call a player out at least have a valid argument to back it up like i do with Garland and McDonald. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by dazzledavey36

[nutbean 8,838]

16 minutes ago, Pates said:

Jesse has had a poor start to the year no doubt, but for me of the 8 quarters of the regular season the TEAM has only gelled in two of them. First and last v GWS, 3 quarter time last week and round 1 the coaches told them to be bold and move it quicker, I would expect that this is something they are meant to be doing anyway! Running, spreading, looking for that ball to pull the trigger on a break the lines. 

Jesse is certainly not the only one not pulling his weight and not doing what he's meant be doing. He's getting the headlines because he won the rising star last year and is expected to get a massive contract at his next negotiations. The expectation and scrutiny on this young bloke is incredible.

Criticising Jesse because of his form is only a small part of what the likes of Brereton and Lloyd are going on about. A lot of the team has not played well but his body language and his second efforts are an issue. 

I used to watch both Richo and Reiwoldt at Richmond carry on, sulk, sook and drop the head and even at our worst I was happy we didn't have players of that ilk playing for us. I often wondered what impact it had on the rest of the team.

Now we are only two games into the season so I am not going to stamp a young Jesse Hogan in the same vein as the two I have mentioned but does he need to rid himself of that part of his game, improve his body language and work harder when the ball does not come to him the way he would like ?- absolutely.