11 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I agree with most of that. Although I will say Vince to half back is a positive. He was rusty today but should improve. Salem we know about. Jetta and Dunn need to rebound more but they both use the ball smartly. They usually absorb pressure and release to free players, even if they aren't breaking the game open. 

Mitch White and Wagner are both options to take over as the third tall defender but it might take time. I'd throw Wagner in and live with it if Garland plays like he did today, but not if he played like he did last week. I do think there's a margin for a senior player to be a decent ordinary player and make the team better instead of stalling it. Needs to be the right player in the right position. 

If we got a Salem, Vince, Dunn, Jetta, Wagner/White backline up and running with proper midfield support and some workrate/class on the wings we might be on to something.

Which leaves us with McDonald needing to improve. His model should actually be Frawley at Hawthorn. A similarly gifted athlete with dodgy disposal. Frawley's disposal hasn't improved much at Hawthorn, he's just limited himself to bombing it long down the line or taking very safe sideways kicks.

Wagner was poor and needs time at Casey. He's a bit lost at the level for now so I wouldn't think him an option early in the season.

There are players in the team that when they get the ball I murmur under my breath "nothing fancy, just get the ball away from goal". They seem to be in the defensive 50 a lot! Tommy Mac is most certainly one of them, there are times we're he doesn't seem to know his limitations and kicking is definitely one of the big ones. I haven't seen the game for yesterday but it doesn't shock me that there are claims he caused a few goals from direct turnovers. If you're a defender that should be the biggest slap in the face, because even if you've saved 2-3 goals through spoils you are still behind by your own making.

He definitely needs to be working on his kicking, but even if his kicks are off he should be intelligent with how he uses it. Rather than trying to spot a risky 2 on 1 pass, recognise a contest on the boundary line where we can get it out a reset. Either way he should be getting it as far away as possible!

He is an absolute clown. He looks ridiculous. He just farts around for the entertainment of ....oh hang on. Thought this was about Ronald McDonald.

Tom McDonald? Let's review this post in a year or two.

11 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Tom McDonald's problem is that both his decision-making and disposal is shockingly sub-afl level. What's worse is that since being drafted, he has barely improved on either of these qualities. 

He is massively overrated on this board.

Just now, hemingway said:

11 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Tom McDonald's problem is that both his decision-making and disposal is shockingly sub-afl level. What's worse is that since being drafted, he has barely improved on either of these qualities. 

He is massively overrated on this board.

I have always liked Tom because of his competitiveness and his toughness in the contest. For a young guy with a tough initiation, he had done well and given me some heart particularly when comparing his efforts to that of others. Yet his disposal lets him down and his ball drop and kicking style is awkward. It has been the glaring weakness in his game since his debut. It does make you wonder how much time has been spent by coaches and Tom himself on this basic skill issue. It's a bit like remedial learning. He needs a massive amount of time one on one with a skills coach and on his own attempting to remedy his kicking action. He may never be perfect but surely there is room for improvement. 

Happy to wait and judge him after a few games in the home and away season. I'm not going to get carried away and call for his head after two NAB practice games.

Not even slightly worried about Tom McDonald, this is not to say that I think his disposal is great, but he is probably top 5 in our most important players for the next 7-8 years and is nearly the best key defender under 25 in the comp.

He makes mistakes, heaps of our list make mistakes, all AFL players make mistakes, granted Tom McDonald mistakes are often punished more often due to him making the mistake in our back half, but his positives far outweigh his negatives in my opinion.

A pet hate of mine is when people make comments about a game when they did not see it. (I did - twice-TV only)

McDonald defended well but his disposal was not good. NB:- Salem & Watts both butchered the ball yesterday and they are elite users of the ball. I don't think we have a better key defender, perhaps Hogan but he isn't going back full time. We need to work with McDonald until someone better comes along.

14 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Yes thats true, I dont deny that T Mac can be very frustrating with his disposal.

He has great strengths though...  hes superb on one one, can run all day and is a great athlete. Can shut down a star forward, or go forward himself and generate scoring opportunities for us and himself.

In other words, the sky is hardly falling.

I would certainly prefer the dour defender TMc who regularly shuts down and beats his opponent one on one, but whose disposal can be iffy to an "elite user of the ball" who can't get the ball, nor beat his opponent. Strauss springs immediately to mind. 

Few are perfect (posters on footy club boards excepted, of course) 

12 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Tom McDonald's problem is that both his decision-making and disposal is shockingly sub-afl level. What's worse is that since being drafted, he has barely improved on either of these qualities. 

He is massively overrated on this board.

Massively overrated? Have you read this thread? 

The bloke has had a couple of practice matches to forget. He is smart and there are few more dedicated to the cause. 

He will improve and be that lynchpin of our backline again. 

A massive overreaction on this board

No overreaction whatsoever. McDonald is a great ball winner and is an elite endurance athlete. His presence elsewhere on the field could be a real bonus. No doubt he has played some very good games for the MFC and will continue to do so. Having said that, if the pressure of NAB Challenge games causes him to make such calamitous errors how will he go if we ever play in finals? Yes, some others aren't great but he is horrendous. This observation is not based solely on yesterday. For those who suggest we have no other option, look no further than Frost. Tight defender, great closing speed whose disposal is adequate. I hope for him the forward experiment works but it's not at the moment. Why we haven't experimented with the switch between him and McDonald thus far is puzzling. Turnovers are morale sapping and lose games. Not sure how others view it but watching McDonald is an extremely nerve wracking experience. Reinvent him and see what happens before any huge contract at seasons end.

18 hours ago, bing181 said:

Fine. But there's the other side to the McDonald coin. Equal most kicks today (for example). Of the others down back, Dunn had 2, Garland had 5. For Marks, Tom was in the top 4. Garland didn't take a mark all day, and Dunn took one. Even his disposal efficiency: poor today, but around the same as Jack Watts and Christian Salem, supposedly amongst the best kicks at the club.

But the most telling stat in Tom's favour (to offset the stats in the "clangers" column) is game time. Most players are averaging 70% - 80%. Tom managed 90%. Big difference.

In regards to Tom, notwithstanding his failings, there's more than enough to work with. Like it or not, his name is always going to be one of the first on the team sheet.

Well they need to drill themselves to get the ball in the hands of the good disposers, Dunn and Salem.

As for the DE stats, I never rate them because they don't look at the whether the player was under pressure or not. There should be a stat for a player under no pressure and player under duress finding a teammate.

 

1 hour ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

Not even slightly worried about Tom McDonald, this is not to say that I think his disposal is great, but he is probably top 5 in our most important players for the next 7-8 years and is nearly the best key defender under 25 in the comp.

He makes mistakes, heaps of our list make mistakes, all AFL players make mistakes, granted Tom McDonald mistakes are often punished more often due to him making the mistake in our back half, but his positives far outweigh his negatives in my opinion.

Spot on.

7 minutes ago, Scythe said:

Spot on.

There are those who love every player that has ever worn a Melbourne jumper,no matter what. Blinkered.

This thread's a disgrace. Tom McDonald is one of our top 5 players and one of the few ones we've got who'd get a game at any club in the AFL. Like all guns, he doesn't give a stuff about the NAB Cup. 

9 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

This thread's a disgrace. Tom McDonald is one of our top 5 players and one of the few ones we've got who'd get a game at any club in the AFL. Like all guns, he doesn't give a stuff about the NAB Cup. 

 

Lols.

Extraordinary.

 

8 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

This thread's a disgrace. Tom McDonald is one of our top 5 players and one of the few ones we've got who'd get a game at any club in the AFL. Like all guns, he doesn't give a stuff about the NAB Cup. 

He made some horrible decisions yesterday, if he is going to as alot of people suspect, join the leadership group he should know his limitations and not constantly overreach and cause turnovers, if he is a [censored] kick, then take the easiest option or give it to someone who can kick

his defending and run are great, just needs to work on disposal

37 minutes ago, martin said:

There are those who love every player that has ever worn a Melbourne jumper,no matter what. Blinkered.

And there are those that love to bag players endlessly.........Must make them feel somewhat superior  

18 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

This thread's a disgrace. Tom McDonald is one of our top 5 players and one of the few ones we've got who'd get a game at any club in the AFL. Like all guns, he doesn't give a stuff about the NAB Cup. 

I'm with you here.

McDonald needs to work on certain areas of his game, just like many other players on our list. I didn't see a thread directed at Dom Tyson last week after he kept getting pinged for holding the ball. He must have been done 5 or 6 times when he could have taken the first option and instead chose to try and run out of traffic.

Tom has in bag-loads what many of our past players don't have: confidence. He has also demonstrated more times than he fcks it up, that he has the skills to make the right decision and execute correctly. I am confident it will click for him. He was able to do it for 6 weeks straight last year and he will build on that this year.

Some people on this forum aren't happy unless they're moaning. Makes you wonder if that's the reason they actually follow Melbourne. 

 

10 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

This thread's a disgrace. Tom McDonald is one of our top 5 players and one of the few ones we've got who'd get a game at any club in the AFL. Like all guns, he doesn't give a stuff about the NAB Cup. 

Exactly.  2 Practice games & they want to lynch someone who was in AA contention early in 2015. There are some real knobheads on demonland.

I reckon you shouldn't be allowed to post an opinion unless you have demonstrated some intelligence & knowledge of the game.

Maybe we need a Certificate 3 Course in Football Matters

 

 

6 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Exactly.  2 Practice games & they want to lynch someone who was in AA contention early in 2015. There are some real knobheads on demonland.

I reckon you shouldn't be allowed to post an opinion unless you have demonstrated some intelligence & knowledge of the game.

Maybe we need a Certificate 3 Course in Football Matters

 

 

Would love to read the posters that wrote that, wow. That's full-on.

I reckon you'll be searching the thread for a while though..

 

41 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

This thread's a disgrace. Tom McDonald is one of our top 5 players and one of the few ones we've got who'd get a game at any club in the AFL. Like all guns, he doesn't give a stuff about the NAB Cup. 

You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. 

 

26 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Exactly.  2 Practice games & they want to lynch someone who was in AA contention early in 2015. There are some real knobheads on demonland.

I reckon you shouldn't be allowed to post an opinion unless you have demonstrated some intelligence & knowledge of the game.

Maybe we need a Certificate 3 Course in Football Matters

 

 

Err what part of intelligence and knowledge that was needed to see in broad daylight that McDonald had about 6 kicks that resulted in direct turnovers and goals. 

I swear some of you blokes are so simple! The main subject of this topic is that how on earth for 6 years that McDonald is still a horrible kick and decision maker. He is now a senior player close to 100 games of AFL footy. It seems in fact he has gotten worse.

I have not once question his defending ability as he is nearly A grade in that department. The big problem is that he doesn't know his own limitations and by that he always undo his good work by costing us crucial goals by horrendous disposal.

My big worry is when we do play September he will cost us some very crucial goals from very bad turnovers. Instead of worrying about contracts and seeing whether Jesse Hogan will sign on maybe he needs to pull his finger out of his ass and worry about his own performance because he is just as much part of the problem.

Go and take that knowledge tests and tell us how you go.. i think even you will surprise yourself. FMD

20 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Err what part of intelligence and knowledge that was needed to see in broad daylight that McDonald had about 6 kicks that resulted in direct turnovers and goals. 

I swear some of you blokes are so simple! The main subject of this topic is that how on earth for 6 years that McDonald is still a horrible kick and decision maker. He is now a senior player close to 100 games of AFL footy. It seems in fact he has gotten worse.

I have not once question his defending ability as he is nearly A grade in that department. The big problem is that he doesn't know his own limitations and by that he always undo his good work by costing us crucial goals by horrendous disposal.

My big worry is when we do play September he will cost us some very crucial goals from very bad turnovers. Instead of worrying about contracts and seeing whether Jesse Hogan will sign on maybe he needs to pull his finger out of his ass and worry about his own performance because he is just as much part of the problem.

Go and take that knowledge tests and tell us how you go.. i think even you will surprise yourself. FMD

 

Would you delist him?

1 hour ago, Bossdog said:

And there are those that love to bag players endlessly.........Must make them feel somewhat superior  

Please show me where I have 'bagged players endlessly'. Perhaps you overlooked my praise for McDonald, just not as a defender.