Trade Radio Discussion

[mo64 5,853]

I can't believe some of the picks teams are considering giving up for average or unproven players

Mcarthey is talented but not worth 2 first rounders.

Yarren imo is not worth pick 12

Players of McCarthy's potential don't come along often. Freo's 2 first rounders will be picks 16 and next year 12-18. A great investment for their future.

Do you realise that Hawthorn gave up 2 1st rounders via trades for Shaun Burgoyne, who had just come off a knee injury? Clubs like Sydney and Hawthorn have been paying what the media buffoons consider "Overs" to get players that they need. And look at the success that it's brought them.

[Ted Lasso 19,284]

Yarren is not in the same class that burgoyne was

[Mach5 4,767]

I can't believe some of the picks teams are considering giving up for average or unproven players

Mcarthey is talented but not worth 2 first rounders.

Yarren imo is not worth pick 12

Exceptionally weak draft remember...

[Ted Lasso 19,284]

Exceptionally weak draft remember...

Ahh that'll do it, it'd have to be to give up pick 12 for Yarren...

I also understand that Richmond have their own way of doing things which is why they never win finals.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

Trying to distance himself from another members damning signature quotes of all his bs no doubt.

I'd be more interested in distancing myself from the term 'Petraccattack.'

[Spirit of the Demon 249]

Not just you Bub.

Both O'Meara and Prestia are said to be responding slowly to their injuries with Prestia the more advanced of the two. My mail is that O'Meara would be lucky to play half a season next year unless his condition makes a rapid improvement.

Prestia, as alluded to by Dazzle is in the gym which means he's in the very early stages of his recovery. At the very best, he is going to miss most of the preseason.

The information I had came from a person previously connected with the Suns who's words to me initially were that if a club was after either of them, they should "closely examine their scans". Which of course, every club would and should do.

My guess would be that pursuing O'Meara at this point in time would be high risk, Prestia, less so but still more of an investment for 2017 and beyond.

So we could still make a play for him but on the understanding that he may not have many games next year?

I would imagine that this would have an impact on what the Suns could ask for him.

[CityDee 738]

Yarren is not in the same class that burgoyne was

Yarran slotting into Burgoynes roll at the hawks will not be too far behind what burgoyne has done there .

[Macca 16,918]

Any draft pick number might bring a club a complete bust - there are no guarantees. We've had more than our fair share of busts but so has every other club on countless occasions.

Many here talk as if a certain "number draft pick" will bring a certain type of result - which is nonsense. Clubs are often willing to give up picks which they put a true value on rather than the "perceived" value of these picks.

It's been going on for some time too with the Burgoyne example above being a good indication. Let's not forget that Tyson had had a few injuries before we traded for him - and we traded pick 2 for Tyson (and pick 9) and that numbered pick (#2) often has an assumed outcome of A grade (mainly by the supporters) Richmond were willing to give up pick 12 for Trengove.

The risk may well come down to "Injury risk for a top player (or possible top player) vs possible bust for a top junior (or reasonable junior)" ... people here really owe it to themselves to study the results of the drafts - it's an absolute eye-opener in a macro sense.

And we keep hearing about this shallow draft talk but there's always juniors who don't stand out (who get picked late) who then end up being top players - Fyfe and numerous others are good examples of that.

The draft results are often all over the place and I'd argue that any given draft is all over the place (in terms of the actual results)

Having said all that, I still fully understand why a club would go to the draft with a top end pick - again, trading that pick can be a risk but so can using that pick be a risk.

In the end a club is always taking some sort of risk - none of this stuff is risk free.

[rjay 24,866]

Yarran slotting into Burgoynes roll at the hawks will not be too far behind what burgoyne has done there .

A long, long way behind...he's nowhere near Burgoyne as a player. Apart from the class factor Burgoyne is very strong in the contest and that's something you could never accuse Yarran of being.

[Macca 16,918]

A long, long way behind...he's nowhere near Burgoyne as a player. Apart from the class factor Burgoyne is very strong in the contest and that's something you could never accuse Yarran of being.

But the Hawks gave up 2 x first round draft picks (via trades) as against the talk of only one pick for Yarran. Burgoyne is a better player than Yarron but the trade (or possible trade) for either player reflects that difference.

And, at the time,(which is an ultra-important factor) Burgoyne was perceived as a risky trade because he was coming off a knee injury.

It worked out beautifully for the Hawks but they still took a risk (at the time)

[rpfc 28,261]

The kind of patella tendon injuries O'Meara has are a huge concern. Much the same with chronic Achilles issues. He would be a big risk for the future, and I'd be surprised if any club would give up anything of real value for him. Prestia must have had some chondral (joint surface) damage going along with his lateral meniscal tear, on account of his continued absence. This is also concerning. How the joint stands up to repeated weightbearing can be unpredictable. Some develop intractable irritability (Clint Bartram, career over), some settle and develop medium term longevity (Luke Hodge). If MFC are really a chance for either of these two, there would have to be some very deep consideration of their likely longevity in the game, or for JOM a return to the game.

Jeez, Webber, thanks for the one way trip back to harsh reality...

I just broke my nose.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The kind of patella tendon injuries O'Meara has are a huge concern. Much the same with chronic Achilles issues. He would be a big risk for the future, and I'd be surprised if any club would give up anything of real value for him. Prestia must have had some chondral (joint surface) damage going along with his lateral meniscal tear, on account of his continued absence. This is also concerning. How the joint stands up to repeated weightbearing can be unpredictable. Some develop intractable irritability (Clint Bartram, career over), some settle and develop medium term longevity (Luke Hodge). If MFC are really a chance for either of these two, there would have to be some very deep consideration of their likely longevity in the game, or for JOM a return to the game.

this is what I was wondering as well Bonkers, Re tendinitis & the RSI type thing. how can he get any RSI type tendinitis sorted in a pre-season when hard running & kicking are so prevalent to the game.

thanks for the understanding on possibly Prestia's condition. I'd say no way to give up this years P-6+ on such speculation... players swap OK, but Not P-6.

A long, long way behind...he's nowhere near Burgoyne as a player. Apart from the class factor Burgoyne is very strong in the contest and that's something you could never accuse Yarran of being.

not yet. he's an unfulfilled talent who will be busting to prove his detractors wrong. And in a strong team unit supportive of him, he will blossom.

Edited October 10, 2015 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,959]

Players of McCarthy's potential don't come along often. Freo's 2 first rounders will be picks 16 and next year 12-18. A great investment for their future.

Do you realise that Hawthorn gave up 2 1st rounders via trades for Shaun Burgoyne, who had just come off a knee injury? Clubs like Sydney and Hawthorn have been paying what the media buffoons consider "Overs" to get players that they need. And look at the success that it's brought them.

those clubs may have payed overs at a time when they were already up there, with culture Fixed, & in the top 8.

we are still fledgling & still building, still repairing culture; so we need all the picks we can muster. not squander for some rushed ideal.

[monoccular 17,413]

Players of McCarthy's potential don't come along often. Freo's 2 first rounders will be picks 16 and next year 12-18. A great investment for their future.

Do you realise that Hawthorn gave up 2 1st rounders via trades for Shaun Burgoyne, who had just come off a knee injury? Clubs like Sydney and Hawthorn have been paying what the media buffoons consider "Overs" to get players that they need. And look at the success that it's brought them.

those clubs may have payed overs at a time when they were already up there, with culture Fixed, & in the top 8.

we are still fledgling & still building, still repairing culture; so we need all the picks we can muster. not squander for some rushed ideal.

Dee-luded. Much the way of my thinking too

With the depth that the Hawks had and have they could afford the 'risk' with Burgoyne and they certainly won that lottery

They also tried with that huge flawed talented indigenous guy from WA ? another Garlett - that turned out a huge fail but despite that they didn't turn a hair. Depth again prevailed but had it worked out - wow!

I would think at our stage we need to be at least moderately conservative and certainly not speculative (though a we all know too well, high picks are speculative too)

Thanks to all who have answered my questions re JO and DP injuries.

[mo64 5,853]

Dee-luded. Much the way of my thinking too

With the depth that the Hawks had and have they could afford the 'risk' with Burgoyne and they certainly won that lottery

They also tried with that huge flawed talented indigenous guy from WA ? another Garlett - that turned out a huge fail but despite that they didn't turn a hair. Depth again prevailed but had it worked out - wow!

I would think at our stage we need to be at least moderately conservative and certainly not speculative (though a we all know too well, high picks are speculative too)

Thanks to all who have answered my questions re JO and FP injuries.

I was talking about Freo, not us.

[DemonOX 8,782]

I can't believe some of the picks teams are considering giving up for average or unproven players

Mcarthey is talented but not worth 2 first rounders.

Yarren imo is not worth pick 12

Prob not but they are worth that to the team that wants them.

The players value is is what the chasing club is willing to pay on a needs basis.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Prob not but they are worth that to the team that wants them.

The players value is is what the chasing club is willing to pay on a needs basis.

i agree.

Many make the assumption that as they (picks) are derived from the same source that theg have the same currency. Id be more akin to think they are like the various monies of the world in so much as having differing value. As you rightly suppose Deanox i think its all about horses and courses.

Also is pick 12 say as valuable in a flat draft year as compared a better cropped one. So timing has an influence. This then goes to the idea of fwd trading of picks.

All in all the value of a pick is eventually established by the trading teams.

[DemonOX 8,782]

i agree.

Many make the assumption that as they (picks) are derived from the same source that theg have the same currency. Id be more akin to think they are like the various monies of the world in so much as having differing value. As you rightly suppose Deanox i think its all about horses and courses.

Also is pick 12 say as valuable in a flat draft year as compared a better cropped one. So timing has an influence. This then goes to the idea of fwd trading of picks.

All in all the value of a pick is eventually established by the trading teams.

And it's DemonOX bezel get it right!!!

Deanox is a distant relation!

[beelzebub 23,313]

Mea culpa

[DemonOX 8,782]

It's funny I actually listen more to SEN now than I did during the season.

How much does that sux.

I look forward to when the season is more exciting than the trade period.

That's 9 years now and counting.

Edited October 10, 2015 by DemonOX

[beelzebub 23,313]

Its that wonderful time of year where what isnt said by "..." ( insert player/manager /club/media) is often more the curiosity than what is

[Whispering_Jack 29,770]

I made the point earlier but really, the sum total of everything new over the first week of Trade Radio discussion has been a poofteenth above zero. We learned very little that wasn't known before the week started.

The real stuff starts the day after tomorrow and what I think will be interesting is whether the clubs have used the week to conduct discussions to allow them to complete some of the more obvious trades and deals. The frustrating thing about past trade weeks is that nothing happens in the first few days and so many trades are held up to the last day because some clubs are interested in posturing while others are delayed because they're waiting on one deal to be finalised down the line.

It remains to be seen whether what's gone on in the background has helped clubs put these deals together which in turn might allow for an increased amount of player movement over what's taken place in the past.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I reckon there might actually be a handful of papers submitted monday. They being the obvious trades that have no real effect on or of others. Then it will stall til wed...then dribbles until the mad rush of the last day esp 1-2pm

All good fun

[angrydee 842]

That is more than the Cats will give for Danger.

I would think if true and given the injuries, I would want to give a bit more and get both, or if only Prestia, get their 19 or 22 back to use on someone else.

Howe after all has played 100 games with hardly a miss and pick 6 is pick 6.

Absolutely agree Mr Leg.

Or a second rounder and Howe. He has played 100 games and has plenty of football left in him.

[hardtack 10,514]

Just a quick question.... many are saying that this year's is a weak draft, so what just exactly is considered a weak draft?

The reason I ask is that on looking at the top 10 finishers in this year's Brownlow voting only Dustin Martin (at #3) and Dangerfield (at #10) were top 10 draft picks. The rest were Fyfe (the winner) #20, Priddis #31 in the rookie draft after being overlooked in 3 or 4 previous National Drafts, Sam Mitchell #36, Kennedy #40 (Father Son), Hannebery #30, Mundy #19, Ward #19 and Goldstein #37.

If this is something that is repeated over multiple Brownlows (I haven't checked all, but I'm sure this year is probably not an exception), then surely the idea of a weak draft is a bit of a furphy.