Some serious questions need to be asked about our supporters and the media

[stinga81 210]

Maybe they are in the MCC but not in the outer where I sit.

Oh, on the contrare mon frere.

[Mach5 4,768]

Maybe they are in the MCC but not in the outer where I sit.

MCC members are no more or less committed and knowledgeable than non-members.

[Adam The God 30,298]

Irony is that if Cloke didn't mark everything and kicked 7 straight or whatever it was (unrepeatable), Melbourne would by only 1 game behind Collingwood.

I don't hear many Collingwood supporters calling for Buckley's head. And, and, Collingwood didn't have the wrecking ball in Neeld and Co. trashing the place 3 years ago.

Collingwood supporters can see where they are going, despite the bumps.

Richmond supporters have stuck fat with Hardwick, despite big questions (me included) early this year!

Melbourne supporters sook, whinge, want to be cuddled, and want apologies for the past. How pathetic.

Not that this is the point, Collingwood won a flag 5 years ago and Richmond are looking dangerous this year. Hardwick is the new Daniher. His teams will never make it, but they'll win their fair share to get to finals. Not particularly apt comparisons.

Further, I don't want an apology for the past. I do want my team to play to an AFL standard now though. Is that alright with you?

[TGR 1,367]

Not that this is the point, Collingwood won a flag 5 years ago and Richmond are looking dangerous this year. Hardwick is the new Daniher. His teams will never make it, but they'll win their fair share to get to finals. Not particularly apt comparisons.

Further, I don't want an apology for the past. I do want my team to play to an AFL standard now though. Is that alright with you?

A bigger contradiction in a post I have not seen.

[Adam The God 30,298]

A bigger contradiction in a post I have not seen.

Would you have said our team played to AFL standard against Carlton? Given the Blues were on the bottom, I'd say they didn't.

[TGR 1,367]

Would you have said our team played to AFL standard against Carlton? Given the Blues were on the bottom, I'd say they didn't.

Mate, we are still a bottom sector team. For mine, we played another bottom-sector team who have been underperforming. Malthouse did predict massive things for them in 2015? There was surely some self-preservation in his comments, but maybe even a scintilla of truth.

Gee wiz, if you followed the Storm, and saw them getting beaten by Newcastle, you'd slit your wrists I guess.

The MFC haven't had good wins or draws since "the Sydney draw" under Bailey. This year, we have had a few. Surely we have turned the corner. The wins have been good, but you have to be able to understand football, to put these wins in context, and I am afraid, 98% of MFC supporters, and 80% of demonlanders don't understand football. Full stop. And if Hannabal has quit demonland, make that 90% of demonlanders, as he has a few accounts.

Edited August 27, 2015 by TGR

[Adam The God 30,298]

Mate, we are still a bottom sector team. For mine, we played another bottom-sector team who have been underperforming. Malthouse did predict massive things for them in 2015? There was surely some self-preservation in his comments, but maybe even a scintilla of truth.

Gee wiz, if you followed the Storm, and saw them getting beaten by Newcastle, you'd slit your wrists I guess.

The MFC haven't had good wins or draws since "the Sydney draw" under Bailey. This year, we have had a few. Surely we have turned the corner. The wins have been good, but you have to be able to understand football, to put these wins in context, and I am afraid, 98% of MFC supporters, and 80% of demonlanders don't understand football. Full stop. And if Hannabal has quite demonland, make that 90% of demonlanders, as he has a few accounts.

Lol. They've got the worst list in the comp by a long, long way. Malthouse was finished in his final year at Collingwood. Using his comments as evidence is not a good idea.

The most negativity I'm getting around here is you slamming fellow supporters.

[TGR 1,367]

Lol. They've got the worst list in the comp by a long, long way. Malthouse was finished in his final year at Collingwood. Using his comments as evidence is not a good idea.

The most negativity I'm getting around here is you slamming fellow supporters.

Suck it up princess (plural).

Garry rang Mick to enquire about coaching us didn't he? Hang on....you might be right.

[TGR 1,367]

The most negativity I'm getting around here is you

Actually, if you read ology, there was no poster more critical/negative about the plight of the MFC circa 2002-2013 that me.

Hindsight shows that if you were bullish, you were absolutely deluded.

[daisycutter 29,626]

[H_T 3,049]

Would you have said our team played to AFL standard against Carlton? Given the Blues were on the bottom, I'd say they didn't.

Melbourne team: round 21

B: Colin Garland, Lynden Dunn, Jeremy Howe

HB: Daniel Cross, Tom McDonald, Christian Salem

C: Billy Stretch, Bernie Vince, Heritier Lumumba

HF: Viv Michie, Chris Dawes, James Harmes

F: Jeff Garlett, Jesse Hogan, Jack Watts

Foll: Max Gawn, Nathan Jones, Jack Viney

I/C: Angus Brayshaw, Ben Newton, Alex Neal-Bullen, Jack Grimes

Regardless if you think Carlton stink, and they have stank a number of times throughout 2015, as has Melbourne. Carltons better players began the game very well and we were off our game again as we have many times this season. They played to the standard required early, we didn't and when you've got that happening with the list above, you're vulnerable to being torn a new one by ANY opposition on their game. And that happened.

Look at the list above. Have a close look. Then look again.

You can find a million excuses if you look hard enough as to why we are so far off being a top 8 side. The likes of Michie, Harmes, Newton, Neal-Bullen and Stretch Aren't world beaters and haven't played a great deal. Cross, Garland and Dunn aren't on every clubs radar. They're battlers that do a good job on their day but prone to being beaten more often than not when they meet AFL standard. Salem came in underdone, I don't care what anyone else thinks - he'll be a handy player in the next 12-18 months. Howe is good for the highlight reel and takes a handy clunk now and then - but he's no Birchall, Burgoyne. He won't punish anyone but he can do a job.

Now have another look at this list. The likes of Brayshaw, Hogan, McDonald, Viney, Vince, Jones standout. Brayshaw is probably showing signs of feeling the pinch and seems cooked for 2015. Hogan had an off game, granted the delivery at times shoud have been better. But that's what you get from a bad lot. McDonald shines as a beacon and gives his all. But for the rest of this lot, if they're covered and not winning contested ball for a portion of the match, we are vulnerable everywhere. Particularly if their ruckman is winning through the centre and having a day out following up. And he's a handy mobile ruckman at that, too.

The only serious questions I'd ask is the seemingly inability to have the players primed and ready for the start of the game. Particularly the last 2 games. Because they've shown the ability to re-enter the contest when it's too late; the horse had already bolted. For this it starts with the responsibility of the coaches.

[old dee 23,801]

Melbourne team: round 21

B: Colin Garland, Lynden Dunn, Jeremy Howe

HB: Daniel Cross, Tom McDonald, Christian Salem

C: Billy Stretch, Bernie Vince, Heritier Lumumba

HF: Viv Michie, Chris Dawes, James Harmes

F: Jeff Garlett, Jesse Hogan, Jack Watts

Foll: Max Gawn, Nathan Jones, Jack Viney

I/C: Angus Brayshaw, Ben Newton, Alex Neal-Bullen, Jack Grimes

Regardless if you think Carlton stink, and they have stank a number of times throughout 2015, as has Melbourne. Carltons better players began the game very well and we were off our game again as we have many times this season. They played to the standard required early, we didn't and when you've got that happening with the list above, you're vulnerable to being torn a new one by ANY opposition on their game. And that happened.

Look at the list above. Have a close look. Then look again.

You can find a million excuses if you look hard enough as to why we are so far off being a top 8 side. The likes of Michie, Harmes, Newton, Neal-Bullen and Stretch Aren't world beaters and haven't played a great deal. Cross, Garland and Dunn aren't on every clubs radar. They're battlers that do a good job on their day but prone to being beaten more often than not when they meet AFL standard. Salem came in underdone, I don't care what anyone else thinks - he'll be a handy player in the next 12-18 months. Howe is good for the highlight reel and takes a handy clunk now and then - but he's no Birchall, Burgoyne. He won't punish anyone but he can do a job.

Now have another look at this list. The likes of Brayshaw, Hogan, McDonald, Viney, Vince, Jones standout. Brayshaw is probably showing signs of feeling the pinch and seems cooked for 2015. Hogan had an off game, granted the delivery at times shoud have been better. But that's what you get from a bad lot. McDonald shines as a beacon and gives his all. But for the rest of this lot, if they're covered and not winning contested ball for a portion of the match, we are vulnerable everywhere. Particularly if their ruckman is winning through the centre and having a day out following up. And he's a handy mobile ruckman at that, too.

The only serious questions I'd ask is the seemingly inability to have the players primed and ready for the start of the game. Particularly the last 2 games. Because they've shown the ability to re-enter the contest when it's too late; the horse had already bolted. For this it starts with the responsibility of the coaches.

Excellent summation H_T

We simply don't have as good a list as a lot want to believe.

[Macca 17,016]

Regardless of skill level, there's no excuse for fully paid professional sportspeople not bringing effort, energy, application and their best attitude to matchdays.

[H_T 3,049]

Regardless of skill level, there's no excuse for fully paid professional sportspeople not bringing effort, energy, application and their best attitude to matchdays.

Agree. And the coaches and leadership group have a large influence on this. If they're not bringing this environment to the table to ensure the right attitude and mindset - effort, energy will waiver.

If you look at the more experienced sides, they've learnt this and are more in tune of what is required.

People keep bringing up the Bulldogs being the exception - a relatively young and inexperienced list. But what sets them apart is quality players and a good captain who can communicate well with his young charges. It's a good tonic for a strong mindset.

Kudos to Luke Beveridge who has the nous and ability to define what makes them tick and get them up for games. Easier when they're in contention too. I'm of the belief that Beveridge - who was coached by Northey - has taken a few pages out of Northey and Clarksons books of emotion. Know what makes players "tick" and have a really good inner sanctum environment, good understanding among teammates, competitive environment.

[TGR 1,367]

The only serious questions I'd ask is the seemingly inability to have the players primed and ready for the start of the game. Particularly the last 2 games. Because they've shown the ability to re-enter the contest when it's too late; the horse had already bolted. For this it starts with the responsibility of the coaches.

Great observations H_T.

Can I just throw in one thing. When is the timeframe of a game where speed is at its greatest?

The start.

That's why I often will dabble in HT/FT doubles thinking about this fact.

[TGR 1,367]

Agree. And the coaches and leadership group have a large influence on this. If they're not bringing this environment to the table to ensure the right attitude and mindset - effort, energy will waiver.

If you look at the more experienced sides, they've learnt this and are more in tune of what is required.

People keep bringing up the Bulldogs being the exception - a relatively young and inexperienced list. But what sets them apart is quality players and a good captain who can communicate well with his young charges. It's a good tonic for a strong mindset.

Kudos to Luke Beveridge who has the nous and ability to define what makes them tick and get them up for games. Easier when they're in contention too. I'm of the belief that Beveridge - who was coached by Northey - has taken a few pages out of Northey and Clarksons books of emotion. Know what makes players "tick" and have a really good inner sanctum environment, good understanding among teammates, competitive environment.

Who knows about the McCartney factor? I know personally, that Macca was a bit unfair on a few players (such as Koby Stevens' milestone last year). We know that another introverted captain in Ryan Griffen didn't see eye-to-eye in him.

Who knows. All I know is that it takes time and some cattle for an amazing coach to get results. Beveridge may be amazing and is surely coach of the year, but look deep and wide as well.

[TGR 1,367]

How will Geelong supporters react this morning? Call for Scott's head. Question the players' commitment?

A club with everything to play for, getting smashed in the first quarter (7 goals to 1) by another club much lower on the ladder who had nothing to play for

Geelong were out-tackled yet, Collingwood had much more of the ball.

Obviously the Geelong players have an issue. Poor effort and intensity etc...

Wonder if Frank Costa will raise his head to highlight his concern?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

How will Geelong supporters react this morning? Call for Scott's head. Question the players' commitment?

They'll probably just go home and watch the 2007, 2009 and 2011 Grand Finals on replay.

[TGR 1,367]

AFL will still consider radical ideas despite congestion clearing

FOOTYS congestion crisis has dramatically eased as the league looks at ways to encourage scoring and reduce boring stoppages.

Amid continuing discussion about zones and starting points at stoppages, stoppage numbers in the past five weeks have fallen off a cliff.

Stoppages in that period are averaging just 64.9 a game, down from the alarming 78.5 in Rounds 9-16 and an average of 88 in Round 11.

This is one massive relevant reason for our recent plight. The AFL and the umps have conspired to take stoppages out of the game.

Faster ball ups; different interpretation of holding-the-ball etc ...

This would have impacted on Sydney 2005; as it definitely has on Melbourne in the past 5 weeks

This absolutely kills teams who don't have much outside speed.

But you have to have half a footy brain to work it out.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

How will Geelong supporters react this morning? Call for Scott's head. Question the players' commitment?

A club with everything to play for, getting smashed in the first quarter (7 goals to 1) by another club much lower on the ladder who had nothing to play for

Geelong were out-tackled yet, Collingwood had much more of the ball.

Obviously the Geelong players have an issue. Poor effort and intensity etc...

Wonder if Frank Costa will raise his head to highlight his concern?

If it becomes consistent then they'll start getting restless. That's the issue with Melbourne, not that it happens but that it happens all the time.

[Ted Lasso 19,526]

The MFC reminds me of a team that genuinely wants to get better because that's what should happen, not a team who desperately wants to get better and will one way or another make it happen.

there are certain players within the club hell bent on seeing us improve, and there are others that think it'd be a nice idea.

we need to be ruthless this off season, i'd rather see 18 year olds running around giving the effort of Brayshaw, Stretch and Nibbler than blokes who have been around a while and lack the fire in the belly to make things happen.

[Whispering_Jack 30,257]

AFL will still consider radical ideas despite congestion clearing This is one massive relevant reason for our recent plight. The AFL and the umps have conspired to take stoppages out of the game.

Faster ball ups; different interpretation of holding-the-ball etc ...

This would have impacted on Sydney 2005; as it definitely has on Melbourne in the past 5 weeks

This absolutely kills teams who don't have much outside speed.

But you have to have half a footy brain to work it out.

An excellent point and our plight hasn't been helped by season long injuries to two of the quickest players on our list in Frost and Kent, the inexperience of another in Stretch and the recent inconsistency of Garlett. I'm reasonably assured that part of our recruiting focus will be on this area in the off season and with trends in the game likely to be in that direction, the need and the opportunity are both there to turn this around in a new season.

[TGR 1,367]

The MFC reminds me of a team that genuinely wants to get better because that's what should happen, not a team who desperately wants to get better and will one way or another make it happen.

there are certain players within the club hell bent on seeing us improve, and there are others that think it'd be a nice idea.

we need to be ruthless this off season, i'd rather see 18 year olds running around giving the effort of Brayshaw, Stretch and Nibbler than blokes who have been around a while and lack the fire in the belly to make things happen.

Great post. I agree.

This is the main reason why I have struggled with "give the captaincy to mature players". On the other hand, I realise you can't put pressure on a young ling, but many leadership positions have been given without merit at this club. We laud Jones. I don't. He has been a very good player in a largely average side.

But then you get many of us knowldgeable supports critiquing "Viney's kicking is ....". You know what, desire, intensity & desperation is the cake here. I just reckon as a supporter base, we confuse icing and cake too much.

We loved the icing that was the Daniher/Bailey years. And yes, looking back he (Daniher particularly) did achieve a hell of a lot at a club that had leaking holes everywhere.

But finally, the club is getting the cake right. Not the microwave cake that many want here.

It doesn't look pretty without icing, (re ugly Brisbane win), many see it as a curly turd.

[Little Richard 6,265]

If it becomes consistent then they'll start getting restless. That's the issue with Melbourne, not that it happens but that it happens all the time.

I still think they're in a serious downward spiral. Their champions are old now, and slowing down. Their young crop aren't anywhere near as good as the ones they are replacing, and personally I don't believe Scott is anything special as a coach. Looking forward to seeing them somewhere near the bottom in the near future.

[TGR 1,367]

personally I don't believe Scott is anything special as a coach.

I beg to differ.

I love how he chased a reject in Rhys Stanley, and with Blicavs, has changed the ruck (around ground) forever.

His effort in his first year wasn't bad; but then again Alan Joyce did OK in his first year.

Unlike his whinging whining brother, when Chris Scott talks, I listen.