Some serious questions need to be asked about our supporters and the media

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

Did either of those clubs supporters even overtly have the defeatist attitude we display year in year out? That is where I think the attitude needs to change throughout the whole club. We (the whole club) are far to negative in our thoughts, we expect to do bad things. I agree our influence is small but if we (again the whole club) change the attitude to one where we demand success and do so without the bile we spit and jokes and expectation of losing then things may well change. Unfortunately this is far easier said than done.

We have a defeatist attitude because the team we support is constantly defeated. What do you want, everyone to turn up to training in a hippy drum circle singing kum-ba-yah after yet another 10 goal plus defeat, another year of losing more than one in every three games?

The supporters negativity doesn't drive the shithouse performances of so-called professional athletes, the horrible performances of the team drives thesupporters negativity.

These guys want to be paid like professionals to play a game, then they can cop the scrutiny that comes with it. Act like a pro, deal with it and focus on improving your woeful performances. Otherwise next time it won't be negativity it will be downright apathy. Not that I think for one second any of them truly give a damn about that - maybe 2 or 3 but certainly not the vast majority. They'll just move on to another club for another paycheck.

Look at how Freo dealt with Colin Sylvia. If we had the depth there would be a number of players we should be treating in the same manner. Unfortunately we struggle to cover injuries at all let alone being able to drop someone like Howe for being a lazy piece of [censored].

[Dr. Mubutu 855]

That is a 110% improvement on the week before against the bulldogs then.

What a KPI to hang your hat on.

[Adam The God 30,283]

Absolute and utter rubbish.

We vote boards in and out. We had faith in your Garry Lyon's to run a coach selection process. We applauded bruise-free footy in the 2000s because it was good to watch. We couldn't see how flakey it was.

I used to laugh at other supporters. Since my introduction to ology in 2002/3, and sitting listening to most MFC supporters yell "kick it long", I have been shaking my head at Melbourne supporters for far far longer than Paul Roos has.

A bunch of introverted (because ego is a dirty word), pessimistic, white-collar, liberal voting, football naive bunch of nervous nellies....epitomised by the Paul Roos saga.

Turn it up. I've never voted a board in or out. I probably had faith in Gary Lyon (despite it obviously being misplaced) because I was 'supportive' of the club and I applauded footy in the 2000s, because I was a supporter and we were winning. So you're saying it's our fault for not supporting them, but at the same time, you're also condemning us for supporting them as well? Nice logic.

And well done for painting us all with the same brush. I'm not being paid to play for the MFC or to coach them, but I do pay my membership every year and pay entrance to bloody Etihad, Skilled Stadium and any other hell hole we end up playing in. The fans deserve a little bit of respect for sticking by this club. Take a look around the league. Half of Carlton and Essendon's members have jumped off in two lean years. We've had 8 or 9 of them. We're still here.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I wasn't around (much) during our last successful period of the 50s/early 60s.

My comments refer to the period from late 60s to now.

The MFC has always been a soft option club. We are a nice club. Our supporters are nice (generally), our players are nice. We rarely rock the boat. We follow the trend.

We have a messiah complex. Weather it's bringing Barassi back, or being saved by Gutnick's millions, or being saved by a recent premiership coach.

In the 90's we decided that merging would solve all our problems.

An integrated training, social and administration complex located near the MCG? No way. Can't be done. Merge.

Our blueprint for the future? Merger.

In the early 80's we tried to but a premiership with Moore and Templeton. Unsuccesful.

In the late 00's we thought tanking for priority picks was the way to get success. Win matches? No way. Play to lose - it's the way forward. We'll be playing finals in 3 years.

We went for the assistant coach at a successful club to lead us forward.

We did however, buck the trend on occasion. Northey's "us verses them" mentality that galvanised a young team with talent was a refreshing change. As was Daniher's early tenure as coach.

But through all this we lurched from one administration to another. With little or no succession plan and outrageous strategies that just created white noise and distraction i.e Team Melbourne (anyone remember this fiasco?) and our fascination with China being some sort of panacea to our problems.

We are seen as an establishment club, a club with a proud history but little recent success. A club whose supporters go to the snow and clap politely and say "Go Dees".

Well, so what. I like being associated with a club with nice supporters. I like our heritage. Lets embrace who we are and start to be masters of our own destiny. Stop following what everyone else is doing and start doing what will work for us, on and off the field. By following what is being done today means we will never catch up tomorrow. Everyone else will have moved on.

Stop taking the soft option and stop being followers.

but the supporters still think its not them, but its the club...seperate from themselves. they do not look inside, they always look outside themselves, whether to buy a player in or a coach or whatever it takes.

they want others to do the dirty work within reason, we can't have the demon jumper with any scorn attached to it, like any hardmen running amok..... that would never do.

they hate the sight of blood, more-so opposition blood,,, than they're own, as they cannot be blamed for one of they're own being hit, but god forbid one of ours being thuggish...

they want elite, not hard workers, a bit of the old bluebloodlines, that is .... they don't want any dermies, locketts, abletts, rhys jones, sheedy's, matthews, carey's..... but they would tolerate your kernahn's, dennis collins's, heffernans, any of that ilk.

the trouble with the club is its been culturally embezzled by the Mcc. most all supporters from 'the outer', have long gone from the club, from years of being shunned from a club that has no real identity, its a club that relies on another organisation, that doesn't have 'footy' as its main passion...

the sooner this club develops its base elsewhere and moves away from the 'G', to train, & also to run its affairs, that's when it will start to grow independence; just like all the other clubs have been doing for so long now.

it needs to grow some ballls. & stop being culturally castrated, where it is now.

Edited August 25, 2015 by dee-luded

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Funny that three of our worst losses, were games most supporters were positive we were going to win

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

Turn it up. I've never voted a board in or out. I probably had faith in Gary Lyon (despite it obviously being misplaced) because I was 'supportive' of the club and I applauded footy in the 2000s, because I was a supporter and we were winning. So you're saying it's our fault for not supporting them, but at the same time, you're also condemning us for supporting them as well? Nice logic.

And well done for painting us all with the same brush. I'm not being paid to play for the MFC or to coach them, but I do pay my membership every year and pay entrance to bloody Etihad, Skilled Stadium and any other hell hole we end up playing in. The fans deserve a little bit of respect for sticking by this club. Take a look around the league. Half of Carlton and Essendon's members have jumped off in two lean years. We've had 8 or 9 of them. We're still here.

Well said mate - how many other clubs would continue to have the level of support/members we have after the decade we've had? I would guess our 36k members this year is similar if not better to what we had in 2006/07.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Life imitating art

Titus oreilly imagines a roosy presser

Roos: Absolutely. Melbourne as a club needs to have a good hard look at themselves. At Sydney we were always really honest. I won a premiership there.Reporter: There were several quarters where no Melbourne players had a possession, is that a worry?Roos: I think thats just a reflection of where Melbourne is as a club and Melbourne fans just need to accept that

[Pates 9,660]

......

I think your OP sounded out some very good points in there TGR. Speed is a killer with us, as you pointed out we simply have non. Petracca from all reports is one that will add that explosive speed from the pack and show a bit of dash, flair, and dare. Again from reports he is not short in confidence, hopefully the knee injury won't change that.

However the Carlton game for me reinforced a deeply ingrained attitude of switching of at the end of the year when all is lost. Not once in our years of crap have the players resolved to finish strongly to set themselves up for next year; Round 17-18 comes and they go through the motions. That third quarter wasn't even good from us, it was sloppy and wasteful and yet we managed to reel in the margin. That shows how bad Carlton are, losing to them may well have undone a lot of good work we have done this year.

The Bulldogs game I was annoyed about, particularly the first quarter, but they were red hot and they have speed as you pointed out. They were also fighting for a top 4 spot so of course they would come out with intensity.

I also agree with you that steady improvement is what I wanted this year. Our best year has been good enough to beat any team from 7th down, but our worst has been as bad as I have ever seen it. I saw 7 wins as a pass, we won't beat Freo (hell we won't get within 100pts probably) and GWS have our number. So for me this season will be another fail. We needed wins this year.

I am in agreement with you though, we need to recruit speed and flair.

[TGR 1,367]

Turn it up. I've never voted a board in or out. I probably had faith in Gary Lyon (despite it obviously being misplaced) because I was 'supportive' of the club and I applauded footy in the 2000s, because I was a supporter and we were winning. So you're saying it's our fault for not supporting them, but at the same time, you're also condemning us for supporting them as well? Nice logic.

No. I "supported" them. I paid my memberships. But I also had the objectivity and nous to see where we were heading long ago. The safe calls. The rhetoric. The decision making. The massive cultural issues. Trusting a boys club that were there because of money or that they played a few games of mediocre footy. I saw how this club got shocked to the core with Gutnick. My god, a guy with a bit of ego who wanted to do things differently!!!!!!!!!!!! No wonder the rich white anglos put a stop to him after 5 minutes.

That is the big difference pal.

We haven't been a knowledgeable supporter-base. We have been largely a bunch of clapping cheerleaders. That just filters up an organisation like the crusty old MFC and made them ultra comfortable in the status quo.

These weak supporters who expect sympathy for decades of under-performance? I don't shed a tear for you, because as a collective you have contributed to it. You have allowed it much more than you know.

[TGR 1,367]

However the Carlton game for me reinforced a deeply ingrained attitude of switching of at the end of the year when all is lost. Not once in our years of crap have the players resolved to finish strongly to set themselves up for next year; Round 17-18 comes and they go through the motions. That third quarter wasn't even good from us, it was sloppy and wasteful and yet we managed to reel in the margin. That shows how bad Carlton are, losing to them may well have undone a lot of good work we have done this year.

Good point and one that I can't argue against.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I actually think that Melbourne supporters are more in tune with the game and how it is played than anyone else.

Sitting among hundreds of Hawthorn supporters last Friday night reaffirmed this.

[TGR 1,367]

I actually think that Melbourne supporters are more in tune with the game and how it is played than anyone else.

Sitting among hundreds of Hawthorn supporters last Friday night reaffirmed this.

That is smugness. They come from the same stock in the civilised eastern suburbs.

As I said in another thread...."MFC supporters just cant stick fat with a solid process and take the hits that come with it. We are soft eastern suburbs of Melbourne types that complain when our son gets tackled a tad hard"

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

That is smugness. They come from the same stock in the civilised eastern suburbs.

As I said in another thread...."MFC supporters just cant stick fat with a solid process and take the hits that come with it. We are soft eastern suburbs of Melbourne types that complain when our son gets tackled a tad hard"

Maybe they are in the MCC but not in the outer where I sit.

[rpfc 28,539]

Funny that three of our worst losses, were games most supporters were positive we were going to win

Huh?

There have been threads for the last 6 weeks titled "If we lose to (blah) I will..."

We have been affected by the last decade.

Don't really see a point in denying it.

[rpfc 28,539]

Maybe they are in the MCC but not in the outer where I sit.

Those Hawks supporters are new to footy.

Got little idea.

[Mach5 4,768]

Going along to the game is supporting them. If they play well, we support them. If they seemingly don't try at all... people get angry.

Seemingly is the key word here.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, and most unfortunately have no clue whatsoever.

[Scoop Junior 3,472]

We have a defeatist attitude because the team we support is constantly defeated. What do you want, everyone to turn up to training in a hippy drum circle singing kum-ba-yah after yet another 10 goal plus defeat, another year of losing more than one in every three games?

The supporters negativity doesn't drive the shithouse performances of so-called professional athletes, the horrible performances of the team drives thesupporters negativity.

100% spot on.

Unfortunately the comment that supporter negativity affects the players is a complete failure to recognise the cause and effect relationship as Dr Gonzo has set out.

Even still, I would argue Melbourne supporters are incredibly positive and optimistic compared to a lot of other clubs. Considering what we have been through in recent times, we still get big numbers to our AGM / info night in February, supporters I speak to during the pre-season are generally optimistic about the season ahead, we have decent attendances at pre-season training, huge interest in training reports and off-season news and good crowds to our early season games (who can forget the noise generated at the GC game in Round 1).

Many other clubs' fans would have given up by now if they were served up what we have been served the last 9 years.

What I will admit is Melbourne supporters are probably quick to pounce on a terrible performance, but that's only because we have seen far, far too many of them in recent times. And once again it's the performance which drives the supporter reaction, not the other way around.

[Akum 2,660]

That is smugness. They come from the same stock in the civilised eastern suburbs.

As I said in another thread...."MFC supporters just cant stick fat with a solid process and take the hits that come with it. We are soft eastern suburbs of Melbourne types that complain when our son gets tackled a tad hard"

I think it's more than this.

We want to play in a certain way. But it's all too easy for the opposition to stop us playing in the way we want to.

So what do we do then? That's when we've got NFI.

Nobody knows what to do. We're perplexed. It's like being trapped up in a spider's web - the harder you struggle, the tighter it gets.

We're easy to tie up. And at the moment, once we're tied up, we're stuffed.

[The Reverend 1,736]

I have been commenting here for 6 months or so after lurking for a year or more and have some worries about my fellow members, they include;

- Posters with an unnatural interest in flogging themselves

- Posters with an unnatural interest in other members flogging themselves

- Posters who appear to have connections with every organisation under the sun

- Posters who only comment on loses and are overly negative

- Posters who only comment on wins and can see no negatives at the club

- Poster who seem to enjoy whisky with an almost disturbing enthusiasm.

- People who want to trade N. Jones, not M. Jones.

- Far too few people talking about the snow (this is the dees after all)

- Many posters with seemingly fantastic long term memories (can tell you all about 87') but horrible short term memories (have forgotten how bad we were in 13')

If Roos is right, which I think he is, and we are part of the problem as we are constantly negative and joking about how bad the club is, then maybe it is us we should be looking at along with the players and coaches?

Many of the comments above are jovial in intent however a few are pointing to the problem Roos has called out. Maybe we should start to be more balanced in our appraisal, stop this Jeckyll and Hyde persona and actually provide meaningful comment and a balanced view to the progress of the team.

In short, are we actually the problem?

There is absolutely nothing disturbing about a love of fine whisky. A lot of the world's ills would disappear, or at least be more bearable, if more folk found the truth in whisky. Whisky is too good to be man-made. It's inspired by a much higher source.

There, I've responded to your jibe. I feel better, but not as good as I will later today when I indulge my passion.

[old dee 23,801]

There is absolutely nothing disturbing about a love of fine whisky. A lot of the world's ills would disappear, or at least be more bearable, if more folk found the truth in whisky. Whisky is too good to be man-made. It's inspired by a much higher source.

There, I've responded to your jibe. I feel better, but not as good as I will later today when I indulge my passion.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart Rev.

I thought it was me he was having a go at.

Truth be known it was both of us.

We must share one soon Rev.

Go Dees

[Adam The God 30,283]

I actually think that Melbourne supporters are more in tune with the game and how it is played than anyone else.

Sitting among hundreds of Hawthorn supporters last Friday night reaffirmed this.

Completely agree, mate. Sitting around Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Richmond or Carlton is just as bad.

We're also bloody loud when we get going for a supporter base that is reasonably small.

Edited August 26, 2015 by AdamFarr

[The Reverend 1,736]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart Rev.

I thought it was me he was having a go at.

Truth be known it was both of us.

We must share one soon Rev.

Go Dees

Would love to OD but I'm afraid it might expose my "unRevness".

[old dee 23,801]

Would love to OD but I'm afraid it might expose my "unRevness".

That risk is worth taking Rev.

[TGR 1,367]

Completely agree, mate. Sitting around Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Richmond or Carlton is just as bad.

Irony is that if Cloke didn't mark everything and kicked 7 straight or whatever it was (unrepeatable), Melbourne would by only 1 game behind Collingwood.

I don't hear many Collingwood supporters calling for Buckley's head. And, and, Collingwood didn't have the wrecking ball in Neeld and Co. trashing the place 3 years ago.

Collingwood supporters can see where they are going, despite the bumps.

Richmond supporters have stuck fat with Hardwick, despite big questions (me included) early this year!

Melbourne supporters sook, whinge, want to be cuddled, and want apologies for the past. How pathetic.

[TGR 1,367]

I think it's more than this.

We want to play in a certain way. But it's all too easy for the opposition to stop us playing in the way we want to.

So what do we do then? That's when we've got NFI.

Nobody knows what to do. We're perplexed. It's like being trapped up in a spider's web - the harder you struggle, the tighter it gets.

We're easy to tie up. And at the moment, once we're tied up, we're stuffed.

Can't fix speed on the outside? You cant magically fix this up in 1-2 seasons.

I am glad Roos got us to Bruise-free to contested.

Now we can think about speed. Garlett for pick 60 or whatever it was, was one solid step.