You could easily argue, that the simple fact that we haven't drafted/traded any star mids, is the reason for where we have been and still are.

If you look at all the good sides they have a few star mids. These great mids, even though surrounded by good, not brilliant players, have the ability to drag their teams to success.

We have long said it begins in the middle and we are poor there and hence our ladder position.

We need somehow to trade/draft some really good mids to remedy this situation.

When I look at our list we have some decent players, who if they were led by some great mids, could be a finals side.

It speaks volumes, when you accept that possibly our best mid ATM, is a 30 year old reject from another club.

Whatever we do now at the trade/draft table, should be aimed at solving this problem.

If we clear Howe it should be for a very good mid or the pick that gets us one.

Our first draft pick likewise must be aimed at the best mid available.

The Pies have Pendles, Swan and Sidebottom among others but are still rumoured to be the new home for Treloar. He will make their midfield better. We are behind them and with Treloar that gap will widen.

This is the problem we face. Yes Brayshaw will get better and Viney goes hard but they may never get to the heights of star mids and that is what we need, desperately.

It speaks volumes, when you accept that possibly our best mid ATM, is a 30 year old reject from another club.

Do you really have to resort to this absurd language in attempt to make your point stronger? He is not a reject, he is an extremely good player whatever way you would like to spin it, and with his form this year he would be in the top couple of mids at nearly every other club too. Nathan Jones isn't exactly a hack either.

Will bet every dollar Brayshaw Viney Tyson Petracca Salem will be qaulity midfielders in 3 to 5 years time.

Do you really have to resort to this absurd language in attempt to make your point stronger? He is not a reject, he is an extremely good player whatever way you would like to spin it, and with his form this year he would be in the top couple of mids at nearly every other club too. Nathan Jones isn't exactly a hack either.

He literally was a reject. He was delisted and we picked him up as a delisted FA.

What he's done for us says more about our senior figures and leaders than anything else. He has a die-hard attitude and competes at all times like Jones.

I doubt he would have been picked up bar perhaps either of the two expansion sides for the same reasons.

The doggies have Boyd, Murphy and Morris. Players who carry the same attributes. They've managed their list very well.

He literally was a reject. He was delisted and we picked him up as a delisted FA.

What he's done for us says more about our senior figures and leaders than anything else. He has a die-hard attitude and competes at all times like Jones.

I doubt he would have been picked up bar perhaps either of the two expansion sides for the same reasons.

The doggies have Boyd, Murphy and Morris. Players who carry the same attributes. They've managed their list very well.

Pretty sure he is talking about Vince.

In terms of A-graders, Brayshaw has displayed more than enough in his debut year to suggest he'll be one. Tyson showed signs last year, and Viney has added strings to his bow this year, but if those two don't continue to develop, we're stuck on one possible future A-grader.

Petracca could well be a second. Trengove, if he makes it, has the potential too. Salem is playing half-back, not sure if long term he stays there or goes into the middle (I'd develop him into an A-grade half-back IMO).

Add those to N Jones and Vince, and it's not like there isn't hope, but after this group there is no one else on the list other than unprovens (Toumpas, Michie, Newton, Harmes, Stretch, ANB) or those who clearly aren't good enough (McKenzie, Riley, M Jones, Bail).

A lot comes down to whether Toumpas, Michie, Newton, Harmes, Stretch and ANB make it. I'm confident in the latter three, less so in the former three. If they do, then we're not desperately in need of drafting/trading for new mids. If they don't, then we will have to source them from elsewhere.

Surely not?

Vince a reject?

Surely not?

Vince a reject?

Well, they did push him out the door...

I don't like calling him that though.

Do you really have to resort to this absurd language in attempt to make your point stronger? He is not a reject, he is an extremely good player whatever way you would like to spin it, and with his form this year he would be in the top couple of mids at nearly every other club too. Nathan Jones isn't exactly a hack either.

I never said he wasn't a good player. I actually said the opposite, that he was probably our best mid ATM. He was still REJECTED by the Crows, whichever way you want to spin it.

Stop looking to argue just for the sake of it.

Well, they did push him out the door...

I don't like calling him that though.

Yeh but not guaranteeing games the following year is a bit different to not offering a contract.

Pedantic, I know.

It's a funny coincidence that you mention Collingwood, and specifically Sidebottom, Pendlebury and Swan.

They all had excellent games today.

Ahhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

It feels great to reinforce my belief in prioritising 'actually having a best 22 on the field' at the same time as laughing til I fart at Collingwood's expense..

It's a funny coincidence that you mention Collingwood, and specifically Sidebottom, Pendlebury and Swan.

They all had excellent games today.

Ahhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

It feels great to reinforce my belief in prioritising 'actually having a best 22 on the field' at the same time as laughing til I fart at Collingwood's expense..

If you're essentially re-opening the 'top 6 vs bottom 6' debate, and you're arguing for the bottom 6 as being more important for us, I disagree with you.

Otherwise, carry on.

Will bet every dollar Brayshaw Viney Tyson Petracca Salem will be qaulity midfielders in 3 to 5 years time.

Would add ANB to that list

Need more... Pendlebury to walk out on Collingwood !@

Will bet every dollar Brayshaw Viney Tyson Petracca Salem will be qaulity midfielders in 3 to 5 years time.

thats what he's saying, those kids & US, need someone to excite them, for them to grow & follow up to a higher path.

I never said he wasn't a good player. I actually said the opposite, that he was probably our best mid ATM. He was still REJECTED by the Crows, whichever way you want to spin it.

Stop looking to argue just for the sake of it.

Sorry but only a tool would use the word reject when talking about Vince. Crows wanted to get a particular player & needed to trade for a draft pick so Vince was an option.

He is no more a reject than Josh Kennedy or Brad Ottens.

I never said he wasn't a good player. I actually said the opposite, that he was probably our best mid ATM. He was still REJECTED by the Crows, whichever way you want to spin it.

Stop looking to argue just for the sake of it.

ah no, you were trying to add to the drama and quite literally say 'look how shizen we are, even our best player was not good enough for the crows'

there are a lot of problems down at the MFC but we don't need supporters trashing our few quality players for no reason

ah no, you were trying to add to the drama and quite literally say 'look how shizen we are, even our best player was not good enough for the crows'

there are a lot of problems down at the MFC but we don't need supporters trashing our few quality players for no reason

But when you get over that you will realise what he is saying makes a lot of sense .. Not that it hasn't been spoken about before ...

ah no, you were trying to add to the drama and quite literally say 'look how shizen we are, even our best player was not good enough for the crows'

there are a lot of problems down at the MFC but we don't need supporters trashing our few quality players for no reason

I'll say it for the last time, I wasn't trashing Bernie and you know it. He has been fantastic for us and I wish we had more like him. I was making the point that a player in the last few years of his career, was rejected by his club, or let go by his club, or whatever you like to call it, is probably our best mid ATM.

You clearly just love to fight with other posters. As I said to you once before, " too much curry and not enough beer."

In terms of A-graders, Brayshaw has displayed more than enough in his debut year to suggest he'll be one. Tyson showed signs last year, and Viney has added strings to his bow this year, but if those two don't continue to develop, we're stuck on one possible future A-grader.

Petracca could well be a second. Trengove, if he makes it, has the potential too. Salem is playing half-back, not sure if long term he stays there or goes into the middle (I'd develop him into an A-grade half-back IMO).

Add those to N Jones and Vince, and it's not like there isn't hope, but after this group there is no one else on the list other than unprovens (Toumpas, Michie, Newton, Harmes, Stretch, ANB) or those who clearly aren't good enough (McKenzie, Riley, M Jones, Bail).

A lot comes down to whether Toumpas, Michie, Newton, Harmes, Stretch and ANB make it. I'm confident in the latter three, less so in the former three. If they do, then we're not desperately in need of drafting/trading for new mids. If they don't, then we will have to source them from elsewhere.

I'd include vandenBerg in that lot as well, the young man has shown he knows how to handle the game at the highest level and a real pre season may/should see him jump to another level.

Brayshaw, Viney, Tyson, vandenBerg plus ANB, Stretch, Harmes (a real surprise packet IMHO this year) and with a bit of luck Trengove and Petracca give the coaching panel something quite solid to work with.

I could include Salem but he looks good of half back just now.

And, just for cream on the cake, Hogan for a run in the middle ever so often. His stint in the middle last week was very good: a bit of shock and awe!

You could easily argue, that the simple fact that we haven't drafted/traded any star mids, is the reason for where we have been and still are.

If you look at all the good sides they have a few star mids. These great mids, even though surrounded by good, not brilliant players, have the ability to drag their teams to success.

We have long said it begins in the middle and we are poor there and hence our ladder position.

We need somehow to trade/draft some really good mids to remedy this situation.

When I look at our list we have some decent players, who if they were led by some great mids, could be a finals side.

It speaks volumes, when you accept that possibly our best mid ATM, is a 30 year old reject from another club.

Whatever we do now at the trade/draft table, should be aimed at solving this problem.

If we clear Howe it should be for a very good mid or the pick that gets us one.

Our first draft pick likewise must be aimed at the best mid available.

The Pies have Pendles, Swan and Sidebottom among others but are still rumoured to be the new home for Treloar. He will make their midfield better. We are behind them and with Treloar that gap will widen.

This is the problem we face. Yes Brayshaw will get better and Viney goes hard but they may never get to the heights of star mids and that is what we need, desperately.

I would hardly be quoting the Pies as an example after their 91 point loss today to the Tigers (who we beat)!

Petracca is the man and we are not as bad as you suggest in the midfield. We have problems in other parts of the ground.

Petracca is the man and we are not as bad as you suggest in the midfield. We have problems in other parts of the ground.

Those who apparently know, feel that Petracca is more an explosive forward who can have short bursts in the middle, rather than a true mid.

Vince will win the B&F. I'm quite happy Adelaide gave us a reject

We need star mids big time. I can't remember the last star mid we had. Maybe greg Wells. I am talking the Judd, Ablett, pendlebury that can handle a tag and still perform week in week out and dominate.

I'll say it for the last time, I wasn't trashing Bernie and you know it. He has been fantastic for us and I wish we had more like him. I was making the point that a player in the last few years of his career, was rejected by his club, or let go by his club, or whatever you like to call it, is probably our best mid ATM.

You clearly just love to fight with other posters. As I said to you once before, " too much curry and not enough beer."

What's your point though? What does mentioning his departure from Adelaide have to do with anything? If you weren't using it to strengthen your point, you wouldn't have just said it for no reason. So you obviously meant something by it. IN any case he is a 'star mid' and he wears red and blue so that kinda hurts your point.