Gap between VFL and AFL

[Vanilla Gorilla 204]

Yesterdays game more than anything proved that the gap between VFL and AFL keeps widening.

Neal-Bullen and Stretch were completely out of their depth. That's not to take anything away from them - they're both young, talented players that have bright futures at the MFC - but they were found out yesterday.

It's interesting that these "kids" can dominate in the VFL, and come no where near translating that form in the senior team. And this trend applies to our perennial journeymen - Bail, Matt Jones, Mckenzie (even going back to Magner and dare-I-say M. Newton) - all of whom can tear it up for casey and yet look totally out of it at AFL level.

Does a 30+ disposal or a 5+ goal performance in the VFL really mean anything these days?

[Mickey 4,756]

I think the main difference is in regards to the speed of the game and the pressure applied. Make no mistake, for all their faults St. Kilda bring immense pressure. For a young kid coming into that sort of game, against so frenzied an opponent, they were always going to struggle big time. Brayshaw and the like are the exception, rather than the rule

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Yesterdays game more than anything proved that the gap between VFL and AFL keeps widening.

Neal-Bullen and Stretch were completely out of their depth. That's not to take anything away from them - they're both young, talented players that have bright futures at the MFC - but they were found out yesterday.

It's interesting that these "kids" can dominate in the VFL, and come no where near translating that form in the senior team. And this trend applies to our perennial journeymen - Bail, Matt Jones, Mckenzie (even going back to Magner and dare-I-say M. Newton) - all of whom can tear it up for casey and yet look totally out of it at AFL level.

Does a 30+ disposal or a 5+ goal performance in the VFL really mean anything these days?

Found out? Two first year teenagers who are getting a little taste of senior footy (in ANB's case first game) are "completely out of their depth" and "found out"? FFS cut them a bit of slack, they aren't expected to "tear it up" immediately at AFL level. They were not first round picks and will take many more games to get into the pace of it. If you are expecting every young player to star upon selection in the seniors, then you might want to follow Hawthorn or Sydney. We are Melbourne, unfortunately.

As for Bail, McKenzie and MJones, well, hopefully they will not be on our list for much longer.

[rjay 25,317]

For anyone that watched ANB's first couple of VFL games you would have seen a similar performance to what you got yesterday at Etihad.

His positioning wasn't quite right, he 2 touched, missed targets with handballs etc. it's something I remarked on back in one of the Casey threads. He gets 30+ touches then some think he is going to come in and take the AFL by storm.

No he's not, he was building his game at Casey and because of circumstances had to step up sooner than he probably should have. If we leave him play at AFL for a few more weeks I think we will see him adjust as he did in the VFL but don't expect Brayshaw mark II.

[dpositive 1,838]

It is the step up that is expected.

It is good to be able to expose them to the higher level and then step them back to concentrate on improving

Keep the rotations up so that they are not overwhelmed

This can apply to all players

May even have something to do with Watts resurgence

No one can sustain peak performance and must have relief and support structures to continue development

I am sure Roos understands this.

[P-man 13,367]

Found out? Two first year teenagers who are getting a little taste of senior footy (in ANB's case first game) are "completely out of their depth" and "found out"? FFS cut them a bit of slack, they aren't expected to "tear it up" immediately at AFL level. They were not first round picks and will take many more games to get into the pace of it. If you are expecting every young player to star upon selection in the seniors, then you might want to follow Hawthorn or Sydney. We are Melbourne, unfortunately.

As for Bail, McKenzie and MJones, well, hopefully they will not be on our list for much longer.

It's abundantly clear the OP was simply using them to illustrate the gap between the two leagues. Nothing to do with expectations on the kids themselves.

And he has a point. Tyson and Michie dominated for the Scorps and both were near the other end of the scale yesterday. Bail got leather poisoning on the weekend. VFL performances may be becoming less meaningful if recent history is any indication.

Alternatively it may require some time to adjust to the different pace and players may need a few weeks to make this adjustment. Michie came on as the sub and made a couple of howlers so almost everyone wants to bin the bloke again. I cant remember when he's been given a string of four or five weeks to show his wares, so I'm not still not convinced he doesn't have a future at the club.

[Nasher 33,617]

For anyone that watched ANB's first couple of VFL games you would have seen a similar performance to what you got yesterday at Etihad.

His positioning wasn't quite right, he 2 touched, missed targets with handballs etc. it's something I remarked on back in one of the Casey threads. He gets 30+ touches then some think he is going to come in and take the AFL by storm.

No he's not, he was building his game at Casey and because of circumstances had to step up sooner than he probably should have. If we leave him play at AFL for a few more weeks I think we will see him adjust as he did in the VFL but don't expect Brayshaw mark II.

...or perhaps, if persevered with, he'll quickly adapt to the pace as he did in the VFL seniors. Needs to be either given an extended run, knowing that he'll be off the pace for a little while and accepting the consequences of that, or given an extended run in the VFL seniors. I'd hate to see him enter the midfield revolving door tour Michie, Riley, Newton et al are currently on.

On Stretch, I thought he was good last night. Played to a standard that I would expect of a talented but undeveloped, incomplete 18 year old. For an outside player, he isn't afraid to be physical and tackle. Saw a lot more of the ball in this game than he did in the first two. Good signs.

[FireOath 290]

That game yesterday was high intensity, high pressure and hard running. I would say any kid coming up into the big league would have also been a deer in the headlights. Make no mistake, yesterday was a hard match for all involved.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Barra17

[rjay 25,317]

...or perhaps, if persevered with, he'll quickly adapt to the pace as he did in the VFL seniors. Needs to be either given an extended run, knowing that he'll be off the pace for a little while and accepting the consequences of that, or given an extended run in the VFL seniors. I'd hate to see him enter the midfield revolving door tour Michie, Riley, Newton et al are currently on.

On Stretch, I thought he was good last night. Played to a standard that I would expect of a talented but undeveloped, incomplete 18 year old. For an outside player, he isn't afraid to be physical and tackle. Saw a lot more of the ball in this game than he did in the first two. Good signs.

I think he will adapt 'Nasher', it's probably time to leave both ANB and Stretch in for a run of games.

I wasn't as happy with Stretch's game as you, thought he fumbled the ball on a few occasions and you can't do that at this level but having said that I think a few more games will see him as a more composed player. He's not afraid to work hard and that's a good thing.

edit; one thing that really stood out about ANB to me was some basic footy smarts...a Saint player was lining up for a shot just outside 50 mtrs and Savage being a good long kick was lurking to take a quick handball. ANB would not let him have a run at it and kept blocking him. Savage was pretty p...off about it.

Edited June 15, 2015 by rjay

[Little Richard 6,265]

I think he will adapt 'Nasher', it's probably time to leave both ANB and Stretch in for a run of games.

I wasn't as happy with Stretch's game as you, thought he fumbled the ball on a few occasions and you can't do that at this level but having said that I think a few more games will see him as a more composed player. He's not afraid to work hard and that's a good thing.

edit; one thing that really stood out about ANB to me was some basic footy smarts...a Saint player was lining up for a shot just outside 50 mtrs and Savage being a good long kick was lurking to take a quick handball. ANB would not let him have a run at it and kept blocking him. Savage was pretty p...off about it.

Better to keep them in and let them build up some momentum than constantly rotate the NQR's, in my opinion. At least until some of the other midfielders are back to fitness.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Django

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,339]

I love how kids having 11 and 16 possies in their first and second games is seen as out of depth. They could obviously find some ball but need to rid themselves of nerves and touch at a higher speed and intensity. This I would think is expected at AFL level to take more than a couple of games.

If I learnt anything yesterday it is whilst injuries are cutting deep we should develop them in the seniors over players like Michie and Riley who are very limited. Whilst not third year, Toumpas is showing the benefit of consistent games in the seniors in understanding the speed, strategy and team mates. Whilst the spots are there they should be played, even if one as the sub.

[monoccular 17,695]

If we had had an injury free season then IMO it would be unlikely that we would have seen anything, or more than perhaps a late season cameo, from ANB or Stretch.

They have only appeared this early as a result of the injury list and the inadequacies of the more experienced 'depth players' - had the likes of Jordie (just love his endeavour and application; something for all to aspire to), Matt Jones, Bail stepped up with quality performances then we could she nurtured these first year guys a lot longer at VFL, just as happens at other clubs with greater quality depth.

Yes, even perhaps frustrating them by lack of promotion after a string of good VFL games, but nurtured than anyway.

[mo64 5,886]

...or perhaps, if persevered with, he'll quickly adapt to the pace as he did in the VFL seniors. Needs to be either given an extended run, knowing that he'll be off the pace for a little while and accepting the consequences of that, or given an extended run in the VFL seniors. I'd hate to see him enter the midfield revolving door tour Michie, Riley, Newton et al are currently on.

On Stretch, I thought he was good last night. Played to a standard that I would expect of a talented but undeveloped, incomplete 18 year old. For an outside player, he isn't afraid to be physical and tackle. Saw a lot more of the ball in this game than he did in the first two. Good signs.

Tend to agree. Toumpas and Watts didn't set the world on fire when they were recalled, but have been given consecutive games, and improved with each one. I'm not convinced that Michie and Riley are talented enough at AFL, but they need an opportunity before their papers are stamped. For mine, Newton has more talent, and can make it.

Now it comes down to the old chestnut. Do we get games into the likes of ANB, Stretch and Harmes, even if they're not 100% at AFL level, or do we play the likes of Bail, M. Jones and McKenzie, and develop the kids at Casey? I'd be giving them runs of 3 games each (including sub roles), but not at the same time.