Training - Friday 12th June, 2015

[Breggsy 123]

from:- http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-06-12/vfl-player-review-round-eight

VFL Player review.

Alex Neal-Bullen: We thought he was our best player on the weekend. He played his best game for the club. He had 34 possessions, five effective tackles and 20 contested possessions. He won a lot of critical contests and his hands were really good. He brought a lot of players into the game. His performance on the weekend was as good as Ive seen in any game Ive seen this year. Hes had a really interrupted pre-season and hes building really nicely, so it was a good effort by Alex.

Bold is my highlight.

Really promising write up! Hope he avoids the vest

Also happy to hear that Mitch White is building. Ranked about 30th overall for players drafted last year. Strengths are kicking and intercept possession so I hope we see him play on some lesser forwards soon so he can drop off

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Can I ask if you know - do the players know at the last training session who will wear the vest or is that decided on the day of the game ?

(i.e does ANB know he will starting or subbing ?)

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, spoken to a few of them, depends on weather forecast, changes to opposition etc, would assume ANB will be sub, seems the Roos way, although Billings has just dropped out of the Saints side, may change the thinking

Saty do you think Stretch will play?

Not sure, would be good if he did with ANB, bit like Jones and Brayshaw now, Billy and ANB combine really well

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

That's ABN to you, buddy.

I hope ANB wins a NAB Rising Star nomination.

[binman 39,459]

Saty a query. Did any of the drills today involve forwards bringing the ball to ground against the extra defender?

I reckon Roosys comments in the after game presser about players not listening, whilst said with fairly limited heat was his version of furious. No wonder he bellowed if the players ignored advice at training.

[binman 39,459]

I hope ANB wins a NAB Rising Star nomination.

And if so i hope he's not dyslexic

[nutbean 8,837]

Saty a query. Did any of the drills today involve forwards bringing the ball to ground against the extra defender?

I reckon Roosys comments in the after game presser about players not listening, whilst said with fairly limited heat was his version of furious. No wonder he bellowed if the players ignored advice at training.

A few posters mentioned clever positioning by the defenders to give Oxley the spare a clear run at it. I only semi buy that. It is clearly illegal to block a players run at a marking contest. Some of the balls Oxley marked where high balls taking forever to land in the forward line - yet he marked many unopposed. I thought there were some weakness at getting to the contest by some of our forwards on those high balls. I don't advocate acting for frees but go super hard at the contest and if you get taken out - hopefully the umpires will penalise.

[rjay 24,176]

A few posters mentioned clever positioning by the defenders to give Oxley the spare a clear run at it. I only semi buy that. It is clearly illegal to block a players run at a marking contest. Some of the balls Oxley marked where high balls taking forever to land in the forward line - yet he marked many unopposed. I thought there were some weakness at getting to the contest by some of our forwards on those high balls. I don't advocate acting for frees but go super hard at the contest and if you get taken out - hopefully the umpires will penalise.

Could not agree more 'nut bean', it was very frustrating to watch. Our forwards needed to bring more energy and intent, and if that means running into/over a defender trying to block then so be it.

A little bit of the old make 'em earn it.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Saty do you think Stretch will play?

Stretch shouldn't play for the rest of the year, or until his form absolutely demands it.

Was brought in far too early.

[DeeSpencer 23,635]

Stretch shouldn't play for the rest of the year, or until his form absolutely demands it.

Was brought in far too early.

Rubbish. What do you base that on? A poor disposal count against Hawthorn in a 100 point loss I'm guessing.

He did very well against Sydney. In 3 quarters he only had 7 touches but he scored a goal, didn't waste any of them and had 4 tackles. There's no reason to not give him another shot against lesser opposition and/or as the sub.

[Vagg 2,422]

I asked him outright and he said yes

Really pleased to hear it, albeit a little surprised, given Roosy seemed fairly definite earlier in the week that he wasn't quite ready to step up to the Seniors.

[Gorgoroth 12,431]

A pies supporter who's opinion I rate said, in 12 months time Hogan will smash Oxley and anyone who stands in the hole like that.

Also said Frost did well to nudge him under the ball but that won't happen to hogan again for a full game, he reckons Hogan would have learnt.

Two things he said I agreed with was Hogan looked like he will play on the edge for his career and be a bloody good player but said Brayshaw will be a star.

[DubDee 21,883]

Good luck Alex!

hope he plays well and is in the circle when we sing the song at the end of the game.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Rubbish. What do you base that on? A poor disposal count against Hawthorn in a 100 point loss I'm guessing.

He did very well against Sydney. In 3 quarters he only had 7 touches but he scored a goal, didn't waste any of them and had 4 tackles. There's no reason to not give him another shot against lesser opposition and/or as the sub.

7 disposals in 3 quarters isn't good. The goal was a gift, although it was a nice set shot kick by him.

Promptly dropped not long after. Still very, very skinny and raw.

Others who have been in the system or are bigger e.g Harmes, ANB etc. can come in. Nothing wrong with letting Stretch develop for a while. Heck the Swans sat Tom Mitchell, who is far more mature in body than Stretch, in the twos for a long time. Gone are the days where we just throw people in because "that's all we got."

As i said, don't bring him in until he is banging down that VFL door, like ANB.

Edited June 12, 2015 by The Song Formerly Known As

[DeeSpencer 23,635]

Really pleased to hear it, albeit a little surprised, given Roosy seemed fairly definite earlier in the week that he wasn't quite ready to step up to the Seniors.

I think we've seen enough of Roos now to know that he'd rather keep the pressure off the younger guys by leaving them at Casey but with JKH, Salem, Brayshaw, Stretch and now ANB all debuting in their first year he's understanding that if they play well at VFL even if it's a short number of games and if there's no one else pushing up stronger then he'll pick them.

I think it's managing guys after they are first picked in the way that you drop them/rest them/get them to work on certain aspects of their game that is the important thing with young players.

[Akum 2,660]

A few posters mentioned clever positioning by the defenders to give Oxley the spare a clear run at it. I only semi buy that. It is clearly illegal to block a players run at a marking contest. Some of the balls Oxley marked where high balls taking forever to land in the forward line - yet he marked many unopposed. I thought there were some weakness at getting to the contest by some of our forwards on those high balls. I don't advocate acting for frees but go super hard at the contest and if you get taken out - hopefully the umpires will penalise.

The umpires will only notice if it's within a few metres of the ball. If it happens 30 metres away from where the ball is, they won't notice, and if they do notice, they won't pay a free for holding 30 metres off the ball. The Pies are nothing if not well-drilled, they know how to do this.

There was one blatant free in the last quarter where Matt Jones (of all people) was clearly being held back by Toovey within 5 metres of Oxley marking unopposed before he could get to the contest. Even with something as obvious with this, umpires are in two minds about paying a free because they can never be sure how much is staging.

That's why a spare defender must be manned up. It's just not enough to tell the 6 forwards that they have to get to the fall of the ball. Six well-drilled defenders know that if the ball is kicked quickly & high into their area, they only need to stop their opponent getting to the contest and the only one left to take the mark is their seventh man (six well-drilled defenders would also know how to keep their opponent off without making it blatantly obvious). If the seventh defender is manned up, he can't take a mark unopposed, and then the other 6 have to decide whether to contest the mark or not, and the whole thing breaks down within about 30 seconds. It's basic maths, and to just tell the 6 forwards to get to the ball doesn't cut it.

[DeeSpencer 23,635]

7 disposals in 3 quarters isn't good. The goal was a gift, although it was a nice set shot kick by him.

Promptly dropped not long after. Still very, very skinny and raw.

Others who have been in the system e.g Harmes, ANB etc. can come in. Nothing wrong with letting Stretch develop for a while. Heck the Swans sat Tom Mitchell, who is far more mature in body than Stretch, in the twos for a long time. Gone are the days where we just throw people in because "that's all we got."

As i said, don't bring him in until he is banging down that VFL door, like ANB.

ANB had 1 great game in the guts. Stretch has had 5 or so super competent games on a wing. He's not going to get 30 touches out there if they are asking him to cover ground and keep space. Not unless Casey are moving the ball with sublime confidence.

It's not about throwing Stretch in for the entire rest of the season. It's recognising that after a couple of weeks off he played another competent game on the wing at VFL level and that we are lacking run and composure there. 15 clean possessions with defensive work rate and a competitive attitude would be as good as anyone has delivered for us on a wing this year at AFL level. Most of us are happy that the Toump has managed that for 2 of the last 3 weeks.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

ANB had 1 great game in the guts. Stretch has had 5 or so super competent games on a wing. He's not going to get 30 touches out there if they are asking him to cover ground and keep space. Not unless Casey are moving the ball with sublime confidence.

It's not about throwing Stretch in for the entire rest of the season. It's recognising that after a couple of weeks off he played another competent game on the wing at VFL level and that we are lacking run and composure there. 15 clean possessions with defensive work rate and a competitive attitude would be as good as anyone has delivered for us on a wing this year at AFL level. Most of us are happy that the Toump has managed that for 2 of the last 3 weeks.

But he didn't get 15, he got 7.

The toump always averages 15.

Stretch needs to be banging down there door with consistent 21 disposal games in the VFL such as last week, and THEN be brought in, and given a bit of a chance.

As i said, was brought in too early. Should have been later on when he has gathered some good form, which he is starting to do now.

[monoccular 16,583]

Bit of a tangent, but I thought it was interesting that Plapp went out of his way to point out that three of his young players are really enjoyable to coach because they listen (in contrast to Roos' comments after the game). The three he mentioned were OMac, Harmes and Stretch.

I wonder how much of an influence this has on players having success at the top level - I've heard stories about some players such as Blease, Morton and Gysberts being nigh-on uncoachable because they didn't listen to feedback.

Papp certainly seems to be able to communicate well with the players. Reminds me a bit of Mark Williams the Sandy coach in that regard. Encouraging and teaching, not ranting and raving like some coaches.

And if so i hope he's not dyslexic

waht si wnorg wthi dylsxelia?

Could not agree more 'nut bean', it was very frustrating to watch. Our forwards needed to bring more energy and intent, and if that means running into/over a defender trying to block then so be it.

A little bit of the old make 'em earn it.

Surely better to give away a free (and maybe even the occasional 50) than allowing them to take so many uncontested marks. Let them worry about what is coming.

[Akum 2,660]

Could not agree more 'nut bean', it was very frustrating to watch. Our forwards needed to bring more energy and intent, and if that means running into/over a defender trying to block then so be it.

A little bit of the old make 'em earn it.

If you're standing next to them and they're ball-side of you and just leaning against you to stop you getting past, it's actually just about impossible to get anywhere if they know what they're doing. And the only way to "make 'em earn it" in that situation will get you rubbed out for weeks. You need some momentum to bump them out of the way or to steamroll over the top of them. I suppose you could try throwing them to the ground, but that takes up time.

Again, it only works if you outnumber the opposition in the area, and you KNOW FOR CERTAIN that you outnumber them. It's not just an extra defender to make it 7 against 6, it's a set play to make it 1 against 0, and it really shouldn't be allowed to work for more than a minute to two. I hope our coaches have sussed it out this week, because I can guarantee that every side from now on will try it against us at some stage, especially if we score a few quick goals.

[nutbean 8,837]

If you're standing next to them and they're ball-side of you and just leaning against you to stop you getting past, it's actually just about impossible to get anywhere if they know what they're doing. And the only way to "make 'em earn it" in that situation will get you rubbed out for weeks. You need some momentum to bump them out of the way or to steamroll over the top of them. I suppose you could try throwing them to the ground, but that takes up time.

Again, it only works if you outnumber the opposition in the area, and you KNOW FOR CERTAIN that you outnumber them. It's not just an extra defender to make it 7 against 6, it's a set play to make it 1 against 0, and it really shouldn't be allowed to work for more than a minute to two. I hope our coaches have sussed it out this week, because I can guarantee that every side from now on will try it against us at some stage, especially if we score a few quick goals.

I hear what you are saying - and of course man on man is going to make it far more difficult for the likes of Oxley to take so many marks.

However I did watch the reply again and there was some clever blocking by the Collingwood defenders but I maintain after watching that three players in particular did not physically get to contests that they should have - they did not work hard enough - Howe, Pederson and Hogan.

Teams have been playing with an extra forever and a moon and it does not always end the way it did last week. With the spare cutting a forward line to shreds.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

ANB had 1 great game in the guts. Stretch has had 5 or so super competent games on a wing. He's not going to get 30 touches out there if they are asking him to cover ground and keep space. Not unless Casey are moving the ball with sublime confidence.

It's not about throwing Stretch in for the entire rest of the season. It's recognising that after a couple of weeks off he played another competent game on the wing at VFL level and that we are lacking run and composure there. 15 clean possessions with defensive work rate and a competitive attitude would be as good as anyone has delivered for us on a wing this year at AFL level. Most of us are happy that the Toump has managed that for 2 of the last 3 weeks.

Stretch is playing. You got your wish.

I hope he proves me very wrong, and you very right this Sunday.

[CityDee 738]

When blocked our forwards should get super physical even if a few frees are given it will draw the umps attention and they are more likely to be gifted for blocking from there on . Its an easy oppo mark otherwise .

[rjay 24,176]

If you're standing next to them and they're ball-side of you and just leaning against you to stop you getting past, it's actually just about impossible to get anywhere if they know what they're doing. And the only way to "make 'em earn it" in that situation will get you rubbed out for weeks. You need some momentum to bump them out of the way or to steamroll over the top of them. I suppose you could try throwing them to the ground, but that takes up time.

Again, it only works if you outnumber the opposition in the area, and you KNOW FOR CERTAIN that you outnumber them. It's not just an extra defender to make it 7 against 6, it's a set play to make it 1 against 0, and it really shouldn't be allowed to work for more than a minute to two. I hope our coaches have sussed it out this week, because I can guarantee that every side from now on will try it against us at some stage, especially if we score a few quick goals.

...and you don't think every team has been doing this for the last 40 years against every other team.

It's not a new tactic, it's how it's countered that matters. Manning up Oxley was not the option...

Make 'em earn it was a throw away line...our forwards showed no real effort to break the block. They needed to work harder and maybe that would have drawn a free or at worst given one away which would have been better than leaving an easy mark.

[Akum 2,660]

...and you don't think every team has been doing this for the last 40 years against every other team.

It's not a new tactic, it's how it's countered that matters. Manning up Oxley was not the option...

Make 'em earn it was a throw away line...our forwards showed no real effort to break the block. They needed to work harder and maybe that would have drawn a free or at worst given one away which would have been better than leaving an easy mark.

Yeah that's my point. It's not a new tactic, it's just strange to see it countered so poorly. FIGJAM couldn't believe it worked so well for so long, especially using a fringe player. Oxley did very little when he wasn't playing as the spare.

[rjay 24,176]

Yeah that's my point. It's not a new tactic, it's just strange to see it countered so poorly. FIGJAM couldn't believe it worked so well for so long, especially using a fringe player. Oxley did very little when he wasn't playing as the spare.

Yep, but my point is that manning him up would have been counterproductive.