Ruckman

[ChaserJ 5,188]

Spencer’s had two years longer on the list than Gawn, so would expect him to be stronger with better running capacity.

Gawn probably has the scope to be our first ruck, with Spencer as a capable back up. Gawn’s pure ruckwork and taps to advantage look like they’ve improved over the last year or so, he does need to continue to build his strength. That will come, freaks like Grundy and NicNat aside, developing ruckman takes a long time (never mind two knee reconstructions interrupting development).

Jamar looks to be on the way out, and I think the time is right to phase him out and let Gawn hone his craft in the firsts, with Spencer spelling him where appropriate.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Gawn's without doubt the 'smartest' of our current ruck stocks. Does he have that long lasting chassis to match ?

[Akum 2,660]

It's tricky to know what to do with Jamar at season's end.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he monsters the other two at training. His body use is still the best, it's just that he doesn't do much with the tap because he lacks Gawn's vision & smarts, and he lacks Spencer's desire to get involved in general play.

He'd be a great developer of young ruckmen in terms of body use, & if he retires I'd expect him to get snapped up somewhere else & we'd lose him as a ruck coach. Then again, Stafford seems to be doing fine, and when he was playing, his body use was at least as good as Jamar's and he was far more imposing around the ground.

He'd also be great to keep on as insurance against the other two getting injured together.

Rookie???

[Adam The God 30,639]

It's tricky to know what to do with Jamar at season's end.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he monsters the other two at training. His body use is still the best, it's just that he doesn't do much with the tap because he lacks Gawn's vision & smarts, and he lacks Spencer's desire to get involved in general play.

He'd be a great developer of young ruckmen in terms of body use, & if he retires I'd expect him to get snapped up somewhere else & we'd lose him as a ruck coach. Then again, Stafford seems to be doing fine, and when he was playing, his body use was at least as good as Jamar's and he was far more imposing around the ground.

He'd also be great to keep on as insurance against the other two getting injured together.

Rookie???

I'd consider a rookie spot, but it depends if we can lure another ruckman. If we can, I'd say goodbye, Jamar.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

You don't think he'd see a rookie offer as an insult?

[poita 3,914]

You don't think he'd see a rookie offer as an insult?

Do we care? He has had a 14 year AFL career in which he has given 8 years of unfulfilled promise, 1 year of excellent service, and 5 years of diminishing returns.

A stronger club would have made the call on Jamar at the end of 2012, instead of giving him a three year deal on big money - we owe him nothing at this point.

Gawn needs to be given every chance to make his case over the next 12 games. If he needs a week off every now and then, so be it, but he is by far the most natural and talented ruckman on the list. He just needs to develop the confidence, concentration and tank required to make it at this level.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

I do care, as it happens, but I was only suggesting that it would effectively result in his delisting, leaving sour feelings behind. Certainly I'm not suggesting that you should care.

[Little Richard 6,265]

I do care, as it happens, but I was only suggesting that it would effectively result in his delisting, leaving sour feelings behind. Certainly I'm not suggesting that you should care.

The advantage of Jamar is that he is a veteran, isn't he? So only half his salary comes under the cap. Is this still the practice?

[spirit of norm smith 16,650]

Gawn with 89% of the vote.

[monoccular 17,695]

How good was Gawns tap to Pederson in the second quarter that led to Bernies first goal?! Gawn has the talent and hopefully he can build a tank. He's still only 23 as well.

Is there any truth to the suggestions that he does smoke? If so he needs a rocket where the sun don't shine - an ultimatum in effect.

Set him some really thought fitness / endurance KPIs, and get whatever help that is available to help him quit.

You don't think he'd see a rookie offer as an insult?

Possibly. Probably. But if that is that right thing for the progress of the list then make the tough decision.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

Is there any truth to the suggestions that he does smoke? If so he needs a rocket where the sun don't shine - an ultimatum in effect.

Set him some really thought fitness / endurance KPIs, and get whatever help that is available to help him quit.

Possibly. Probably. But if that is that right thing for the progress of the list then make the tough decision.

I simply doubt that he would accept it. His only prospect of ever playing senior football at MFC would be a temporary elevation if one of Gawn and Spencer got an LTI and the other subsequently got injured. He could get reasonable money and a more secure position in a minor league.

[Pirlo 813]

Do we care? He has had a 14 year AFL career in which he has given 8 years of unfulfilled promise, 1 year of excellent service, and 5 years of diminishing returns.

A stronger club would have made the call on Jamar at the end of 2012, instead of giving him a three year deal on big money - we owe him nothing at this point.

Gawn needs to be given every chance to make his case over the next 12 games. If he needs a week off every now and then, so be it, but he is by far the most natural and talented ruckman on the list. He just needs to develop the confidence, concentration and tank required to make it at this level.

What a load of [censored]. Who needs enemies when we have supporters like you?

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Lol, if Gawny is on the lung busters, that will do me

[Akum 2,660]

You don't think he'd see a rookie offer as an insult?

Not if the alternative is retirement.

I like what they've done with Shannon Byrnes this year. I like it that they're making consistent noises about keeping Crossy around the club in some capacity once he retires.

I'd imagine there would be a discussion with Jamar about his future, in the context that his days as first ruck are numbered, that would come up with options for him to remain involved with the club.

[DeeSpencer 26,458]

I do care, as it happens, but I was only suggesting that it would effectively result in his delisting, leaving sour feelings behind. Certainly I'm not suggesting that you should care.

I'm not sure on the rules of what salary you can pay rookies. Presumably you can still pay them a decent wage. Ben Hudson did a couple of years on Collingwood's list as a veteran to have if needed. Schneider is doing it this year at the saints.

Asking him to stick around for another year on 50k would be an insult. Offering him a rookie list spot as back up to 2 younger players and paying him a fair wage wouldn't be insulting, it's where the game is heading. If he's stuck behind Gawn and Spencer for the rest of the year but still enjoying his footy at Casey then he could be very happy to take a rookie spot.

[Disco Demons 92]

Jamar is done. Had one good year. When he made all Australian. Suspect he is finished after this year.

Gawn is ok in the ruck. Can take a contested mark. Skills are way below.

Spencer is ok in ruck and has better skills around the ground than Gawn.

[nutbean 8,838]

Spencer has better skills around the ground than Gawn.

Really ?

[Little Richard 6,265]

Really ?

No, not really.

[DubDee 26,373]

if the question is who has the most potential, then Gawn wins hand down. But he has shown very little so far that he can make it at AFL (aside from potential). He has been in and out of the team over the past 4 years, injuries have not helped but mostly, he has been dropped for performing poorly and not impacting games. I still have massive hopes for him and hope he turns the corner

but to answer the question: we do not have a No 1 ruckman- We only have 2nd and 3rd choice ruckmen. If I had to pick, based on form this year and impact on games I would pick Spencer. These days in footy you need a competitor, and someone strong around the contest giving 2nd and 3rd efforts

Recruitment will be interesting: do we target a talented No 1 ruckman? if so, get worried Speno

Or do we target a fwd/2nd ruck (I know we have Frost but he could be more a defender) and back Gawn and Speno

Talent wise, ruckman do not grow on trees - just look at how the Bombers are coping.

[Adzman 2,154]

Leunberger is out of contract and out of favour. I wonder if he were added to the poll what kind of votes he would get ahead of our current ruck stocks.

[Little Richard 6,265]

Leunberger is out of contract and out of favour. I wonder if he were added to the poll what kind of votes he would get ahead of our current ruck stocks.

He seems to be really struggling this season though, don't think he's worth much at this point in his career.

[Akum 2,660]

if the question is who has the most potential, then Gawn wins hand down. But he has shown very little so far that he can make it at AFL (aside from potential). He has been in and out of the team over the past 4 years, injuries have not helped but mostly, he has been dropped for performing poorly and not impacting games. I still have massive hopes for him and hope he turns the corner

but to answer the question: we do not have a No 1 ruckman- We only have 2nd and 3rd choice ruckmen. If I had to pick, based on form this year and impact on games I would pick Spencer. These days in footy you need a competitor, and someone strong around the contest giving 2nd and 3rd efforts

Recruitment will be interesting: do we target a talented No 1 ruckman? if so, get worried Speno

Or do we target a fwd/2nd ruck (I know we have Frost but he could be more a defender) and back Gawn and Speno

Talent wise, ruckman do not grow on trees - just look at how the Bombers are coping.

I think whenever Gawn has played first ruck he's done really well. His problem is he can't last four quarters, so he needs someone else to ruck for at least about 40% of the game, and playing a field position for the rest. Pedo comes close, but being first ruck for 40% of the game is beyond him. Fitzy might do it, but it's hard to replace a defender who goes into the ruck, and he doesn't match up in defence against many teams. So it's a problem, and maybe that's why we have both Fitz & Pedo in the team, with a big risk of being too top-heavy.

And Spencer & Jamar are not capable of playing a field position while resting. They have to change off the bench.

So to pick Gawn with Spencer only makes sense if Spencer rucks and Gawn plays most of the game in FP, where he's not nearly effective and can be easily nullified. It's the Stef Martin dilemma all over again.

Someone mentioned Leuenberger. He's in the same position at Brisbane, where both he & Stef are much more effective as No.1 ruck & not nearly as good as forwards. So Leuey probably isn't the guy we need either.

We need someone more like David Hale, who can be a dangerous tall forward, but ruck for a lot of the game if he has to. And they are very very hard to find (tho' if that's how King develops, then we're looking good for 2018!!)

[monoccular 17,695]

I simply doubt that he would accept it. His only prospect of ever playing senior football at MFC would be a temporary elevation if one of Gawn and Spencer got an LTI and the other subsequently got injured. He could get reasonable money and a more secure position in a minor league.

Sorry. I didn't make it clear. The 'he' I was referring to is big Max. Should have made it clearer.

[P-man 13,367]

We need someone more like David Hale, who can be a dangerous tall forward, but ruck for a lot of the game if he has to. And they are very very hard to find (tho' if that's how King develops, then we're looking good for 2018!!)

Gawn and King will be the ruck combo from 2017 onwards. The Max Attack. It was just meant to be.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

He seems to be really struggling this season though, don't think he's worth much at this point in his career.

I'm sure Brisbane didn't expect the output they've been getting from Stef Martin after the season he'd had with us, (who was a rookie pick or psd pick if I recall correctly).

Leuy was a top 10 pick so he's certainly talented. He's endured some shocking injuries so his form this year is not really a concern. He's stay on the park factor is though.

I think a change of scenery would be perfect for him and I think we should have a crack.