DemonFrog 1,359 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Was Robbo the Weapon at Geelong? May be there is a reason their young guys are not as good. Does anyone have some of the good stuff?
WERRIDEE 5,638 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 I think Hawthorn are also on the slide...just a very slow slide. They also have most of their prime movers over 30yo. Hawthorn will need everything to run in their favour to win the flag this year. If they get a run of injury like last season around finals time rather than mid season then they won't win a flag. I wouldn't get as overly excited by their first game as some have, it was only against a sub standard Geelong. Who is going to beat them. They have amazing depth and I think the Swans are on the slide more than they are. Port can but they have a massive problem at full back Carlile is a spud Roughhead will slaughter them. In 2 or 3 years time all this should change, it will be interesting to see which clubs pass the aging Hawks, Cats and Swans. Wouldn't it be great to see a Dees V Bulldogs Grand Final. Then Eddie will whinge about equalisation.
rjay 25,424 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 Who is going to beat them. They have amazing depth and I think the Swans are on the slide more than they are. Port can but they have a massive problem at full back Carlile is a spud Roughhead will slaughter them. In 2 or 3 years time all this should change, it will be interesting to see which clubs pass the aging Hawks, Cats and Swans. Wouldn't it be great to see a Dees V Bulldogs Grand Final. Then Eddie will whinge about equalisation. That will become a bit more obvious as the year passes. At the moment as I said in my post they are more likely to beat themselves (so to speak) with injury problems to key players. Depth doesn't cover Hodge & Mitchell for example in finals. The Swans are in an interesting position but they do have the luxury of picking up highly rated kids with late picks. Being blocked out of free agency may be a big issue, I wonder how much the offer to Chip would have been if they were allowed to bid. I wouldn't write off Freo or Port, but Freo also have the problem of ageing champs... The winner will be the luckiest with injury more so this year than in the past and we will marvel at how well they managed the list. In the end a lot of it is luck.
John Crow Batty 8,892 Posted April 10, 2015 Posted April 10, 2015 That will become a bit more obvious as the year passes. At the moment as I said in my post they are more likely to beat themselves (so to speak) with injury problems to key players. Depth doesn't cover Hodge & Mitchell for example in finals. The Swans are in an interesting position but they do have the luxury of picking up highly rated kids with late picks. Being blocked out of free agency may be a big issue, I wonder how much the offer to Chip would have been if they were allowed to bid. I wouldn't write off Freo or Port, but Freo also have the problem of ageing champs... The winner will be the luckiest with injury more so this year than in the past and we will marvel at how well they managed the list. In the end a lot of it is luck. How true, too many things can happen. Early last season, Hawthorn were being pummelled on the ropes due to their injuries.
dazzledavey36 56,278 Posted April 12, 2015 Author Posted April 12, 2015 Im tipping a mitch clark retirement after this game. Cats getting raped
Demon Stalwart 255 Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 Well half my wish at least came true Clark has now played in two losses straight !!! But how sweet would it have been had we won yesterday, oh well Wouldn't mind looking at the odds on Clark to be dropped next week as well. Wont be long before hell have to opt out again. If it continues like this, this cant be good for 'his issues' .
What 18,810 Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 i bet GWS will smash Geelong GWS speed and dash will trouble them 2 rounds in and we are ahead of the Geelong and Port hehe
Jaded No More 68,976 Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 Karma, just like Mitch Clark, is a b**ch!
SaberFang 7,151 Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 I'll feel a lot better about yesterday if GWS beat Geelong.
Queanbeyan Demon 7,003 Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 After the latest Steven Motlop saga it seems there could be a few cracks falling through. Josh Caddy robbery prank. Billy Smedts driving selfie photo. Dawson Simpson Drink driving. Allen Christensen off field issues that resulted in seeking a trade. Brad Hartman taking personal leave. Recruiting Mitch Clark. Personally i think their great dynasty is over. Their young players are a real worry as they don't seem ready to step up. Im talking about Caddy, Smedts, Horlin Smith, Walker, Simpson. Their older players are slowing down. Bartel, Johnson,Lonergan, Stokes, Enright, McIntosh,Rivers all looked cooked and slow.. I can see us overtaking them within the near future. As my mate Dick McGee used to stay, "a few dicks creeping in down there".
Straight Sets Simon 23,113 Posted April 12, 2015 Posted April 12, 2015 I always find it interesting that when people talk about teams having good "winning culture" it just so happens their players are also really good at football. Yet, when those players leave or get too old the "winning culture" is no longer there. Weird.
praha 11,267 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 I always find it interesting that when people talk about teams having good "winning culture" it just so happens their players are also really good at football. Yet, when those players leave or get too old the "winning culture" is no longer there. Weird. In Geelong's defense, they haven't had a top-10 pick in 20+ years (might even be 30). They rarely bottom out, and rarely go a few years without making finals. A "winning culture" isn't necessarily one that keeps you win all the time, every year. It's also about how you respond to losing, and how you address issues. Melbourne lacks a winning culture. I think Saturday was pretty evident of that. Even during Geelong's droughts, have you ever seen that club go through that sort of capitulation? Because only Melbourne could have 14 straight goals kicked against it. Do you think that if Melbourne had gone through what Essendon has gone through in the past 24 months, if we'd have been able to both draft well, develop our players, stay financially healthy *and* beat a seemingly invincible Hawthorn, all without a pre-season? Melbourne would have lost every game by 100+ points if it were in Essendon's situation. "Winning culture" exists. It's more to do with how you respond to adversity, less to do with *just* winning games of football. 1999, 2001, 2003 were years Daniher missed the finals. There were always off-field issues, be it salary cap, financial or leadership issues that plagued the club, which hurt its branding and clearly affected the relationship the players had with the club, not to mention the mentality around the club. Teams like Essendon respond to that crap by winning games. Melbourne loses them and doesn't recover, or when it does recover, it's a momentary relapse from the club's embedded crap culture.
Straight Sets Simon 23,113 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 In Geelong's defense, they haven't had a top-10 pick in 20+ years (might even be 30). They rarely bottom out, and rarely go a few years without making finals. A "winning culture" isn't necessarily one that keeps you win all the time, every year. It's also about how you respond to losing, and how you address issues. Melbourne lacks a winning culture. I think Saturday was pretty evident of that. Even during Geelong's droughts, have you ever seen that club go through that sort of capitulation? Because only Melbourne could have 14 straight goals kicked against it. Do you think that if Melbourne had gone through what Essendon has gone through in the past 24 months, if we'd have been able to both draft well, develop our players, stay financially healthy *and* beat a seemingly invincible Hawthorn, all without a pre-season? Melbourne would have lost every game by 100+ points if it were in Essendon's situation. "Winning culture" exists. It's more to do with how you respond to adversity, less to do with *just* winning games of football. I appreciate all of that (I was being slightly sarcastic) but my point is that teams with a winning culture just so happen to be really good at football as well.
nutbean 8,838 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 I will put in a huge disclaimer - this happened in a house in Geelong - not necessarily Geelong footballers Two AFL players have been accused of defecating and urinating at a home in Geelong during the preseason break. Ths incident, which happened some time after Christmas, has left the homeowner disgusted. A caller to the 3AW Breakfast Rumour File said two AFL players urinated and defecated in the living area of a Geelong home, ruined a stereo system and left behind suspected drug paraphernalia Sydney Morning Herald
Sir Why You Little 37,450 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 In Geelong's defense, they haven't had a top-10 pick in 20+ years (might even be 30). They rarely bottom out, and rarely go a few years without making finals. A "winning culture" isn't necessarily one that keeps you win all the time, every year. It's also about how you respond to losing, and how you address issues. Melbourne lacks a winning culture. I think Saturday was pretty evident of that. Even during Geelong's droughts, have you ever seen that club go through that sort of capitulation? Because only Melbourne could have 14 straight goals kicked against it. Do you think that if Melbourne had gone through what Essendon has gone through in the past 24 months, if we'd have been able to both draft well, develop our players, stay financially healthy *and* beat a seemingly invincible Hawthorn, all without a pre-season? Melbourne would have lost every game by 100+ points if it were in Essendon's situation. "Winning culture" exists. It's more to do with how you respond to adversity, less to do with *just* winning games of football. 1999, 2001, 2003 were years Daniher missed the finals. There were always off-field issues, be it salary cap, financial or leadership issues that plagued the club, which hurt its branding and clearly affected the relationship the players had with the club, not to mention the mentality around the club. Teams like Essendon respond to that crap by winning games. Melbourne loses them and doesn't recover, or when it does recover, it's a momentary relapse from the club's embedded crap culture. Well said Praha. This is exactly what PJ & Roos need to do Tough job as the lack of leadership on saturday suprised even me!
Grimes Times 1,278 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 In Geelong's defense, they haven't had a top-10 pick in 20+ years (might even be 30). They rarely bottom out, and rarely go a few years without making finals. 2014 PICK 10 - Nakia Cockatoo
jacey 333 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Karma, just like Mitch Clark, is a b**ch! Mitch Clark is on the bottom of the ladder again. Sht happens to sht blokes.
Lucifers Hero 40,715 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Geelong didn't need top 10 pics. They got Hawkins, Scarlett, Ablett 1, Ablett 2 as father/sons with very late draft picks. 9 premiership medals right there and some of the best FB, FF and midfielder of all time. Joel Selwood was a pick 7 or 8. They also received several round 1 picks for loosing Ablett 1 They used one of those for Caddy (a top 10 pick at GC). There may be other permutations that I have forgotten but it isn't such a hard luck story as GFC like to make out!
boydie 655 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 In Geelong's defense, they haven't had a top-10 pick in 20+ years (might even be 30). They rarely bottom out, and rarely go a few years without making finals. 2014 PICK 10 - Nakia Cockatoo While I understand the point you're trying to make, they've had a few top 10 picks in the last 15 years. Aside from that, they also had the luxury of the father-son picks before the rules changed. Gauranteed top 10 picks like Ablett and Hawkins cost them nothing. 2006 Pick 7 - Joel Selwood 2003 Pick 7 - Kane Tenace 2002 Pick 7 - Andrew Mackie 2001 Pick 8 - Jimmy Bartel
rjay 25,424 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Geelong didn't need top 10 pics. They got Hawkins, Scarlett, Ablett 1, Ablett 2 as father/sons with very late draft picks. 9 premiership medals right there and some of the best FB, FF and midfielder of all time. Joel Selwood was a pick 7 or 8. They also received several round 1 picks for loosing Ablett 1 They used one of those for Caddy (a top 10 pick at GC). There may be other permutations that I have forgotten but it isn't such a hard luck story as GFC like to make out! Yep, and this is where it comes into play now. They built a great team but that team has been moving into retirement over the last couple of years. The thing is you don't ever replace champions with depth and that's where Geelong is now, they haven't recruited a champion player since Selwood. Ducan and Guthrie are ok and Menzel would have been. For all the talk of great culture, recruiting etc...it amounts to nothing if you don't have the talent pool to select from. The champions have made a lot of these kids look better than they are. edit: by the way this is what Hawthorn faces from here on, I think they may have snuck their flag last year, they may have another one in them but a lot would need to go right. Gibson and Mitchell out on the weekend made a big difference. Hodge, Mitchell, Lake and Burgoyne are not far off retirement and they're not the only ones.
jackaub 1,402 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Who is going to beat them. They have amazing depth and I think the Swans are on the slide more than they are. Port can but they have a massive problem at full back Carlile is a spud Roughhead will slaughter them. In 2 or 3 years time all this should change, it will be interesting to see which clubs pass the aging Hawks, Cats and Swans. Wouldn't it be great to see a Dees V Bulldogs Grand Final. Then Eddie will whinge about equalisation. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!
praha 11,267 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 While I understand the point you're trying to make, they've had a few top 10 picks in the last 15 years. Aside from that, they also had the luxury of the father-son picks before the rules changed. Gauranteed top 10 picks like Ablett and Hawkins cost them nothing. 2006 Pick 7 - Joel Selwood 2003 Pick 7 - Kane Tenace 2002 Pick 7 - Andrew Mackie 2001 Pick 8 - Jimmy Bartel lol I stand corrected.
WERRIDEE 5,638 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 2014 PICK 10 - Nakia Cockatoo Selwood and a heap of father\sons have helped. Bartel was a top 10 draft pick as well.
WERRIDEE 5,638 Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!! Obviously injuries will be their only problem. Put Mitchell and Gibson back into that side and they won't lose.
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