I like waterfalls.

Please stay on topic.

Please stay on topic.

Dee-luded is feeling a bit deluded atmo - see his opening post here http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/38240-footy-prophecies/#entry1075353

No offence Dee-luded, I found that post very entertaining.

Back on topic. Breathtaking 'logic' in Dank decision. The horse may have bolted for now (unless WADA jump into the saddle) but such a fiasco can't be allowed to happen again. The gentlemen on the Tribunal may be learned men of integrity but their decisions and (il)logic are disgraceful.

The sooner we have independent tribunals the better! A National Tribunal that covers all sports is what is needed.

Edited April 17, 201510 yr by Lucifer's Hero

Devoting equal space to those who cherish the "Essendon" myth!

regardless of drugs or not, I have always been sickened by these juxtapositions. Far worse for drug cheats.

Please stay on topic.

Sorry i got distracted

Back on topic. Breathtaking 'logic' in Dank decision. The horse may have bolted for now (unless WADA jump into the saddle) but such a fiasco can't be allowed to happen again. The gentlemen on the Tribunal may be learned men of integrity but their decisions and (il)logic are disgraceful.

The sooner we have independent tribunals the better! A National Tribunal that covers all sports is what is needed.

It's not illogic, Luce, it's the purest form of sophistry, which in the estimation of some (many of them politicians) is the very highest achievement of logic since it can show that black is white or, more magically, both black and white at the same time. Far from being the fools that a few might want to paint them as, the learned members of the tribunal are in fact highly sophisticated men, in the original sense of that word of course.

The AFL Tribunal:

An application of Chaos Theory (loosely) to a judicial event whilst simultaneously applying digital influence to various appendages !!

I'm comfortably satisfied that the illegal drugs Dank sourced are now in the bodies of essendon players.

Just fired off my email to WADA.

Hope you all follow suit,this BS has to be investigated{appealed}at the very least.

So do I have this correct?

Illegal substances had been sourced for the EFC but no one took them and they simply vanished without trace.

So do I have this correct?

Illegal substances had been sourced for the EFC but no one took them and they simply vanished without trace.

Some things must remain unknown to us mere mortals but have faith Frog "Gil" works in mysterious ways!!

Did Dank actually tip Canterbury to win by 12 in his only comment to the media? Dodging we increases.

It's not illogic, Luce, it's the purest form of sophistry, which in the estimation of some (many of them politicians) is the very highest achievement of logic since it can show that black is white or, more magically, both black and white at the same time. Far from being the fools that a few might want to paint them as, the learned members of the tribunal are in fact highly sophisticated men, in the original sense of that word of course.

Brilliant summation. Of course as you say using the original meaning of sophisticated "from medieval Latin sophisticatus ‘tampered with’"

So do I have this correct?

Illegal substances had been sourced for the EFC but no one took them and they simply vanished without trace.

Didn't vanish without trace. Have you seen the size of the sewer rats out EssUndone way?

Have you seen the size of the sewer rats out EssUndone way?

the ones that come out to play?

If WADA do appeal I'm expecting the AFL to attempt to put up a roadblock. Maybe not so much breaking ranks but maybe in part. They could release a statement indicating that the current agreement is too cut & dried or has too much grey area attached. Nothing would surprise me.

If WADA can somehow get Dank on side it would help as the CAS doesn't have to have a cynical view with regards to Dank. They could and can take him on face value. But the AFL may not want punishments handed down on the back of the word of someone who they have banned for life (if he is banned for life) Is anyone else going to cooperate with WADA?

I believe WADA needs to appeal even if they know they have very little chance of getting a desired result. To walk away now after going so hard wouldn't make a lot of sense. They can at least make Essendon & the AFL uncomfortable for another 6 months or so.

However, WADA's funding is only in the region of 20-30 million per year so cost might be a factor.

ASADA might still appeal but more likely it will be WADA.

In summary, it appears that the AFL Tribunal found Dank guilty of offences of attempting to use banned drugs on Bomber players, using banned drugs on non AFL Players, covering up the offences, but not guilty of actually using banned drugs on AFL players.

That would then sit comfortably with their findings on the Bomber players.

Question: if there were no positive tests on banned substances given to non AFL Players, what evidence was there for the Tribunal to find him guilty?

The Bombers got off, a result the AFL craved, on two grounds, lack of evidence of what they ACTUALLY took and lack of evidence of them intending to take a banned substance.

In the end we actually don't know what they took, but we can have a pretty good idea though.

In the end we actually don't know what they took, but we can have a pretty good idea though.

Amongst all the angst and the furore this one sentence sums it up.

I would also add that we dont know exactly who took what.

The horrendous lack of verifiable records has nullified making the connection.

I reckon its up to WADA via CAS to apply a different level of assurance that the AFL Tribunal.

Amongst all the angst and the furore this one sentence sums it up.

I would also add that we dont know exactly who took what.

The horrendous lack of verifiable records has nullified making the connection.

I reckon its up to WADA via CAS to apply a different level of assurance that the AFL Tribunal.

There is only one answer to not knowing who took what and that is to ban the Club from the league for 2 years.

There is only one answer to not knowing who took what and that is to ban the Club from the league for 2 years.

And further screw up the competition?

Yes. Good idea.

There is only one answer to not knowing who took what and that is to ban the Club from the league for 2 years.

Nice idea but won't happen. The Dopers are a protected species!

And further screw up the competition?

Yes. Good idea.

Trouble is, if nothing is done about drug cheating, the comp is screwed anyway.

While Essendon fans and their cheer squad in the media, plus those who take their cue from them, may be happy, the effect on potential AFL fans must be bad.

i dont know what this picture has to do with anything, but im glad you posted it.

Boags fountain of youth, but I couldn't find a good enough pic of they're girl, so this one does the role.

Dank is into supplements to add vigor & youthfulness, building muscle etc, for people struggling in areas like this. 'fountain of youth', some might say.

I think that with this result the whole enquiry is now on a knife edge with Dank to possibly play a major role.

If I was ASADA I would be making contact with all and sundry, with "Her Majesty's Discretion" playing in the back ground.

The Competition is no where near as important as Crime Doesn't Pay. Or does it?

Trouble is, if nothing is done about drug cheating, the comp is screwed anyway.

While Essendon fans and their cheer squad in the media, plus those who take their cue from them, may be happy, the effect on potential AFL fans must be bad.

I dont think what was proposed is an appropriate solution to address the problem.

And as you point would destroy the game further for the 17 other clubs and the general public.

I agree there are steps that need to be taken to ensure this never occurs again.

But suspending the whole club for 2 years aint one of them.

And like everyone here I am disgusted Hird and Reid are still there and the players cant access medical records to establish what they took.

I dont think what was proposed is an appropriate solution to address the problem.

And as you point would destroy the game further for the 17 other clubs and the general public.

I agree there are steps that need to be taken to ensure this never occurs again.

But suspending the whole club for 2 years aint one of them.

And like everyone here I am disgusted Hird and Reid are still there and the players cant access medical records to establish what they took.

disgusted - but don't have any solution other than what's been suggested; though you are quite comfortable about it being a bad idea to sanction Essendon's systematic cheating and defiance of any sort of accountability?

The destroying of the game is not a matter of whether or not we have a bye in the fixture - it's about whether or not the game is riddled with drug cheating. And if Essendon has gotten away with it, every time they win a game we will be one step closer to the pharmacological precipice.

Don't be so naive as to suppose there aren't a whole heap of Danks watching, waiting like vultures who smell opportunity and weakness. What kind of message do you think would be a step effective in ensuring no-one ever tries the Essendon method again?

Edited April 18, 201510 yr by robbiefrom13