Sort of on topic, but off it just as much;

Who do we play on Dawkins and B!tch when we play them?

This IS where Frawley will be sorely missed.

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:40, beelzebub said:

am not fussed...the karma faeries will smack his bum big time soon enough.

Not sure if they exist. Plenty of Nazi war criminals escaped to South America and spent the rest of their days livin' it up.

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:40, Curry & Beer said:

that's not even a response. How does that relate to him going to Geelong?

As mentioned in a previous post.... As far as I'm concerned he can play with whoever he wants.. A common theme in recovery is to change your environment, that's what was recommended by his doctor and that's what he's done.

Everyone is entitled to their view, but I feel that a little balance is required. It's only a game and someone's long term health is far more important.

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:30, chops38 said:

Hi RPFC.

But he did explain why he isn't playing for us. He has depression.... and part of his doctors recommendations on how he can recover is to change his environment. This is a common recommendation in similar situations.

Who are we to say that's not the case?

And yes, you're right. He doesn't 'need' to play afl. No one 'needs' to play AFL. But why shouldn't he if he can and it's not going to hurt his ongoing recovery.

My point is simply, people here have no idea about what was and is still going on inside his head. So let's stop being so negative and look at the positives that we as a club can take out of this.

- No longer paying the massive salary

- He wasn't playing games for us anyway

- We've ended up with Lamumba he may be really good for the clubs development

So his change of scenery is to go from an AFL club to an AFL club - great recommendation...

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:41, Curry & Beer said:

Not sure if they exist. Plenty of Nazi war criminals escaped to South America and spent the rest of their days livin' it up.

LOL I googled 'Godwin's Law'

My comment remains a perfect refutation to the notion that so-called 'karma' actually exists

If it does, Clark will be hit by an ice cream truck that somehow crashes through the fence at Kardinia park

  On 12/03/2015 at 11:15, america de cali said:

Brings me back to the next game against Geelong at Kardinia Park after 186. Our first goal was kicked by Clark after some fantastic solo scrambling and what ended up a miraculous goal by him. Not one team mate went up to congratulate him. Something smelled off even then.

I don't recall that, but accept what you say.

If true that he had perhaps lost his team mates, that would explain why Roos din't try and keep him.

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:44, chops38 said:

As mentioned in a previous post.... As far as I'm concerned he can play with whoever he wants.. A common theme in recovery is to change your environment, that's what was recommended by his doctor and that's what he's done.

Everyone is entitled to their view, but I feel that a little balance is required. It's only a game and someone's long term health is far more important.

Funny how Mitch got well enough just before the draft occured last year.

Beautiful timing for Clark!!

Far more than just the breed of Black Dog in this scenario.

  On 12/03/2015 at 19:52, Bring Back Barassi said:

there is some conjecture that the club offered him peanuts to stay

I heard that.

  On 12/03/2015 at 21:03, jnrmac said:

It would be wrong as he was under contract

No his contract was terminated when he retired and he was paid out, but was not delisted, so he could be traded, which he was.

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:30, chops38 said:

Hi RPFC.

But he did explain why he isn't playing for us. He has depression.... and part of his doctors recommendations on how he can recover is to change his environment. This is a common recommendation in similar situations.

Is it? People with expertise/experience in this sort of area pointed out early in the Clark saga that the usual recommendation was to confront the situation, not avoid it (especially when that situation was regarded as contributing to the depression in the first place). What seems to have made a few people suspicious is the appearance of anonymous 'medical advice' (from a psychologist, a psychiatrist, or just a GP?) about moving on from the 'situation' of the MFC (and what was the situation anyway and how is another football club any different?)

Leaving aside the abuse of Clark by contributors here and elsewhere who wouldn't know depression if they fell over it, there's nothing that says someone can't be clinically depressed and a [censored] at the same time. Whether Clark is a demonstration of this I don't know and I don't care to speculate. But assertions from you about his condition, the supposed nature of medical advice he received and the purported 'common' position on handling depression don't hold any more sway here than any of the other posters claiming to know the 'true' story.

I have no problem accepting that a change of environment is recommended for someone suffering from depression. What I can't understand is how moving from one professional football environment to another can be considered a significant enough change. Even if you believe his move was genuinely for this reason, it sounds risky to me.

Rubbish he is a [censored], being depressed does not excuse one of being a [censored], when he retired he told the club that's what he needed to do to get well, pretty much Mitch started training as soon as he turned his back on the Dees, he wanted a chance of success simple, the rest was used to achieve that, same reason chip went to the hawks, that's the real truth, it's the same thing most players move for, if the saints offered to pick him up would he head there,?that's a change of environment, I think not, just be honest Mitch for once in your life, and that's fine every player wants that no shame.

  On 13/03/2015 at 00:02, sue said:

I have no problem accepting that a change of environment is recommended for someone suffering from depression. What I can't understand is how moving from one professional football environment to another can be considered a significant enough change. Even if you believe his move was genuinely for this reason, it sounds risky to me.

and of course, what sort of 'plan of action' is it when it is obvious that a by-product of such a move would be to attract a huge amount of contempt from the public? I'm not just talking about us, the whole comp outside of the Cats )of course) thinks the bloke is a complete dog for what he has done. This was obviously going to happen. How dangerous is that for somebody supposedly in recovery from depression? Clearly the thing to do was rejoin the club that supported him. I have never believed for a second that there is any merit at all to the 'change of environment' story. It doesn't make sense.

I may be cynical but i think Clark's depression was cured when he realised he had to play footy to make a living!

It could be summed up this way.

MC signed a huge contract with us for 4 years. Got injured in the first year, again in the second and missed the third. Played a total of about 15 games in 3 years earning about $2m.

May or may not have suffered from depression.

Had recurring soft tissue injuries, after apparently getting over the primary injuries to his foot.

Contract terminated and he was paid out but not delisted.

Club may have offered a small contract for 2015.

Manager fielded offers from firstly the Pies, who thought they had him and then the Cats.

His girlfriend/wife is doing a medical course in Geelong.

The Cats were a good side, better than us, who may have offered more than the Pies.

Roos didn't fight to keep him and a trade was on the table.

We got HL.

Last night was a practice match, where he played on a smaller player Cheney and a Rookie. Half his goals were simple ones anyway. Not wrist slashing time at the moment.

The rest will play out over the following year (s).

  On 13/03/2015 at 00:14, Toorak said:

I may be cynical but i think Clark's depression was cured when he realised he had to play footy to make a living!

One thing that cannot be denied. He made outstanding progress after he left us.

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:08, chops38 said:

I've been reading Demonland this year for the first time, but after reading this thread I've decided to sign up and post my thoughts for the first time.

All the people on here spraying Clarke clearly have no idea what mental state the man was in when it came time to leave the club. I know for a fact that he was suffering from depression and was in a very low place. For him to come out and publicly admit it took a lot of courage and I applaud him for doing it and taking some of the stigma away from it. There are many young men in the community suffering with depression and abuse and narrow mindedness like this will not help.

When you're in the macho environment of a footy club, standing up and saying I have a problem and I need help takes some guts.

Who are people on here to spray Clarke for admitting he had a problem. Or to say he's lying about it. You don't know him. Would they prefer he stayed quiet, stayed at the club against his doctors advice, kept taking the $1m a year in salary, still not play due to mental illness and not recover.

Melbourne is better off not having him on our list taking the $$ and not playing. We've at least brought in H who hopefully will provide something.

I know one thing. Whilst I love this game, it's just that, a GAME. And a young man's mental health for now and the long term is far more important.

Yes, it will hurt to watch him kicking goals for the cats, but it's much better than possible alternatives.

As for 'booing' him... I certainly won't be one of those supporters. I suggest people have a good hard look at themselves if they're going to be in this camp.

Think about if this was your friend, brother or son.

The man was sick, he sought treatment, followed doctors advice and is still improving and still has a long way to go.

I wish him well......... unless he's playing against us!

I have been reserved in my criticism as I have taken him at face value regarding his depression. I know of a few people who have suffered from this ailment and am close to a few professionals working in this area. Those trying to find a" one size fits all" in relation to depressive issues unfortunately have limited understanding of the problem itself.

The one point of conjecture on all I have talked to is the requirement of a clean break from the club. Again I will take it at face value that his doctor recommended this. But the clean break from the environment from the few I have talked to is not from the club but from the pressure of the football industry itself. I can well understand that a doctor would recommend a clean break from the 2012/13 version of the club but the 2014/15 version ? There is also some validity to the opinion that it is better to be in a winning culture and realistically we will be mid table at best - but will the same doctor recommend that if the Cats are on the nose in the next couple of years that Mitch moves away from that environment as well ?

To me the two criteria's for Mitch should have been - is it good for his well being to play football ? If the answer is yes then second question is - is the club a good environment for him to be in - MFC - 2012/13 absolutely not - MFC 2014 and onwards - I think the answer is yes.

This is why am I disappointed in all that has happened.

I'm just relieved we got Lumumba as part of the deal. Lumumba will be a great acquisition for this club IMO - on and off the field.

Absent that, I hate watching Clark dominate for another club. And he will.

Time to let go ladies & gentlemen, wish him well and get behind HO 100%. What is done is done - time to look forward to a great crop of young kids, develop them properly and good times are not that far away. Roos ( Goodwin ) & PJ are our men to get the job done.

  On 13/03/2015 at 00:47, nutbean said:

I have been reserved in my criticism as I have taken him at face value regarding his depression. I know of a few people who have suffered from this ailment and am close to a few professionals working in this area. Those trying to find a" one size fits all" in relation to depressive issues unfortunately have limited understanding of the problem itself.

The one point of conjecture on all I have talked to is the requirement of a clean break from the club. Again I will take it at face value that his doctor recommended this. But the clean break from the environment from the few I have talked to is not from the club but from the pressure of the football industry itself. I can well understand that a doctor would recommend a clean break from the 2012/13 version of the club but the 2014/15 version ? There is also some validity to the opinion that it is better to be in a winning culture and realistically we will be mid table at best - but will the same doctor recommend that if the Cats are on the nose in the next couple of years that Mitch moves away from that environment as well ?

To me the two criteria's for Mitch should have been - is it good for his well being to play football ? If the answer is yes then second question is - is the club a good environment for him to be in - MFC - 2012/13 absolutely not - MFC 2014 and onwards - I think the answer is yes.

This is why am I disappointed in all that has happened.

Paying 100% of the salary cap as has been quoted possibly has prevented the depression scourge from infecting the rest of the list. We should be thankful for that.

  On 12/03/2015 at 22:45, Moonshadow said:

Repeat of Mitch's elbow meeting Jono Brown's head at in Bris? That was truely sickening to watch.

https://youtu.be/10o9oR3TxUs

Edit, not sure why it comes up as a link rather than youtube screen....

Why was Clark laying on the ground rolling around? Soft [censored].

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:08, chops38 said:

I wish him well......... unless he's playing against us!

Having depression doesn't absolve you from also having honour and behaving like a decent human being.

It's a cop out.

He screwed us so he can get more money and experience success. It was a low act.

I wish him well off field, and good on him for coming forward. His depression is probably legitimate, his actions are not.

I understand he needed to at least notionally retire.

I understand he needed to change environment for a fresh start.

He got a lot of help from people who were also under the pump, and a lot of help from a club that actually really needed him.

In his circumstances, he's probably the luckiest depression sufferer in Australia.

All I wanted back was a bit of candour and transparency.

And maybe a little acknowledgement of his good fortune, with a nod to the hundreds of thousands of people who have depression and don't have anything like the cash, supportive employers and colleagues, in-house psychologists and compatible career choices that he has had.

It all sits uneasily with me. Depression isn't a free pass to selfishness.

  On 12/03/2015 at 23:08, chops38 said:

I've been reading Demonland this year for the first time, but after reading this thread I've decided to sign up and post my thoughts for the first time.

All the people on here spraying Clarke clearly have no idea what mental state the man was in when it came time to leave the club. I know for a fact that he was suffering from depression and was in a very low place. For him to come out and publicly admit it took a lot of courage and I applaud him for doing it and taking some of the stigma away from it. There are many young men in the community suffering with depression and abuse and narrow mindedness like this will not help.

When you're in the macho environment of a footy club, standing up and saying I have a problem and I need help takes some guts.

Who are people on here to spray Clarke for admitting he had a problem. Or to say he's lying about it. You don't know him. Would they prefer he stayed quiet, stayed at the club against his doctors advice, kept taking the $1m a year in salary, still not play due to mental illness and not recover.

Melbourne is better off not having him on our list taking the $$ and not playing. We've at least brought in H who hopefully will provide something.

I know one thing. Whilst I love this game, it's just that, a GAME. And a young man's mental health for now and the long term is far more important.

Yes, it will hurt to watch him kicking goals for the cats, but it's much better than possible alternatives.

As for 'booing' him... I certainly won't be one of those supporters. I suggest people have a good hard look at themselves if they're going to be in this camp.

Think about if this was your friend, brother or son.

The man was sick, he sought treatment, followed doctors advice and is still improving and still has a long way to go.

I wish him well......... unless he's playing against us!

Welcome to the boards.

I don't think its that alone. It's more that "it's better for my health to go to a nother club, a winning club" That doesn't sit well with most people I believe.

He has gamed the system and it's wrong. The fact he was also our most talented player also hurts. The fact that we have seen our most talented players over the years fall victim to some freakish things. (Jurrah, Jakovich, Tingay, Schwartz etc etc) also compunds the angst.

Clark's reasoning never sat well with a lot of people here and so why they have some empathy for mental illness the line that was pedalled in the opening sentence sticks in the craw.