This is very bad for football and everyone will lose.

I agree that it's bad for football in that after two years and almost two months of the darkest day controversy, we still have idiots repeating the same mistakes.

Forgive my cynicism but not everyone will lose - we have a legal system comprised of lots of lawyers who want to send their kids and their grandkids to expensive private schools and the Essendon gravy train could stop soon for some of them.

The AFL needed to have ASADA's evidence in order to charge them. Presumably, Gill doesn't have access to any additional/further evidence from the tribunal.

Agree on the question of independence, he shouldn't have commented.

I hope you are right 'bing'.

two new teams for Anzac day.....Lest We Forget !!

Forgive my cynicism but not everyone will lose - we have a legal system comprised of lots of lawyers .

I've always admired lawyers and will rejoice in their good fortune.

Bollocks pure and simple. NRL is thriving despite 2 decades of off field incidents, including drug use. MLB ditto. Athletics ticking along ok. NBA yet another example. Cycling probably the best example. In spite of the pervasive PED use 10 years ago it It has never been bigger.

Do you have any examples where a popular sport has ceased to exist because of positive tests?

Don't be so confident...If it wasn't for ch 9 NRL would be a lot smaller

The other sports you mention are Global...

If the AFL ceased to exist in its current form would many people outside the great southern land really care for more than half an hour?

All i am saying is the AFL has to tread very carefully and wisely over this.... Essendon cops a little wack on the hand it could be a huge mistake down the line.

We shall see tomorrow how big Gill's balls really are.

Excuse my ignorance but if the Tribunal finds the Essendon players guilty tomorrow who determines the penalty and when will it be handed down?

And if the Tribunal hands down the penalty why are Gil's balls relevant? And how could he hand them down if he hasn't read the transcript of evidence?

Don't be so confident...If it wasn't for ch 9 NRL would be a lot smaller

The other sports you mention are Global...

If the AFL ceased to exist in its current form would many people outside the great southern land really care for more than half an hour?

All i am saying is the AFL has to tread very carefully and wisely over this.... Essendon cops a little wack on the hand it could be a huge mistake down the line.

We shall see tomorrow how big Gill's balls really are.

All big sports would struggle without the TV rights so i'm not sure of your point.

Tomorrow's result will have nothing to do with the size of Gills balls. It is an independent tribunal and in any case if they find the players guilt (and its a big if) they won't hand down the penalties tomorrow

Excuse my ignorance but if the Tribunal finds the Essendon players guilty tomorrow who determines the penalty and when will it be handed down?

And if the Tribunal hands down the penalty why are Gil's balls relevant? And how could he hand them down if he hasn't read the transcript of evidence?

I read an article (i can't remember where) on the weekend that said if the players are found guilty the Tribunal will take submissions on penalties, something i thought had occurred. The article said that in the event of a guilty findings penalties would almost certainly not be handed down tomorrow, which i have to say sounds crazy

I read an article (i can't remember where) on the weekend that said if the players are found guilty the Tribunal will take submissions on penalties, something i thought had occurred. The article said that in the event of a guilty findings penalties would almost certainly not be handed down tomorrow, which i have to say sounds crazy

Not crazy, that's also how the legal system works in most serious cases. Do the players remain provisionally suspended until a penalty is announced, and then again while they appeal?

All big sports would struggle without the TV rights so i'm not sure of your point.

Tomorrow's result will have nothing to do with the size of Gills balls. It is an independent tribunal and in any case if they find the players guilt (and its a big if) they won't hand down the penalties tomorrow

My point is NRL is hanging in there...The State of Origin has a lot to do with that

It isn't thriving below the surface

I am well aware that penalties are not handed out tomorrow

Still say the AFL's balls are on the line here

Still say the AFL's balls are on the line here

I think they are too.

The AFL puffs its chest and inks paperwork professing abidance etc. But can it actually do it ?

My point is NRL is hanging in there...The State of Origin has a lot to do with that

It isn't thriving below the surface

Again that's bollocks. The current 5 year TV rights for NRL is worth one billion dollars. One billon. There is talk of adding new clubs. The State of Origin does indeed play a big part in the strength of the NRL. All 3 games equal the ratings of the AFL grand final and are played at night in prime time

Hanging in there? I don't think so

An odd thought.

How will the AFL handle recreational drugs if they become legal? For instance, can they penalise an Adelaide player for taking weed when they are legally able to do so in South Australia? What if the push to legalise ecstasy succeeds? Do they still regard them as impacting the performance of their employees and as such attach penalties or do they loosen up and treat them much the same as most clubs are now treating alcohol?

well they currently do this with alcohol which last time i looked was legal

all boils down to what the aflpa will tolerate in a contract

Do the players remain provisionally suspended until a penalty is announced, and then again while they appeal?

If guilty, they remain provisionally suspended, and the time they've served will be deducted from the total of any penalty. If there's an appeal (by them), they remain suspended for the duration of the original penalty, or until the appeal tribunal/CAS rules otherwise.

Believe that ruling on penalties will come fairly shortly, though how long that will be, there doesn't seem to have been any clear information. I'm thinking a week or two, but don't quote me ...

Again that's bollocks. The current 5 year TV rights for NRL is worth one billion dollars. One billon. There is talk of adding new clubs. The State of Origin does indeed play a big part in the strength of the NRL. All 3 games equal the ratings of the AFL grand final and are played at night in prime time

Hanging in there? I don't think so

NRL players get well paid yes, but the clubs are hanging in there...

Anyway we are getting off the track....Performance enhancing Drugs in our domestic competitions is a very serious problem, Tomorrow i am hoping an equally serious message can be put out there

if the verdict is not guilty it will be an absolute disgrace.

even in the evidence we have seen in the media they would have to go.

Anyway we are getting off the track....Performance enhancing Drugs in our domestic competitions is a very serious problem, Tomorrow i am hoping an equally serious message can be put out there

On that i can agree

NRL players get well paid yes, but the clubs are hanging in there...

Anyway we are getting off the track....Performance enhancing Drugs in our domestic competitions is a very serious problem, Tomorrow i am hoping an equally serious message can be put out there

You are right. A positive statement has to be made and hit a club hard. Not just picking on non entities like Saad who are an easy soft target and ignore systematic abuses by clubs who are the real problem.

also the amount of essendon supporters getting stuck into the pies over 2 positive a samples is ridiculous (especially given that if their b-samples are negative then they are not guilty, the end).

obviously they still do not know that there is more than one way to breach the code than just a positive sample.

the key differences would be that one was systematic, club endorsed, ungoverned and unrecorded (so we are told) and the other breaches have been by individuals or in this case pairs of players.

also the difference in the way collingwood and freo have acted since have shown essendons behaviour to be a complete joke.

D-Day has arrived - zero minus 1400 and counting.

We probably won't know punishments today just a verdict.

To me if the verdict is not guilty or the sentences are too light WADA will be all over the AFL.

The AFL is a very small minnow in a very large ocean of sharks, we are tiny in the context of world sport.

Remember next year is an Olympics year and WADA cant allow teams to use the Essendon[ sgt schulze] defence, I know nothing. The dog ate my paperwork or some such rubbish. Even though we are tiny world wide, a lot of countries and teams will be watching to see what they could get away with next year.

For WADA this is HUGE, a lot hangs on this out come.

We probably won't know punishments today just a verdict.

This is true, but they def won't be playing this weekend at the very least.

We probably won't know punishments today just a verdict.

And expect the saga to go on. Irregardless of the verdict there's an extremely high likelihood that there will be more lengthy appeals.

Many are wailing and gnashing their teeth that this may take as long as four years to resolve... welcome to modern justice. Without the wisdom of King Solomon and a device such as a guillotine for cutting things in half (or off) this is what we are left with... thanks James

As you would expect today, the newspaper coverage of football is mainly about drugs. Michael Gleeson of the Age puts the view that "the Essendon players' drugs tribunal has become more a referendum on whether the club was guilty rather than a test of the players' guilt."

Essendon drugs saga: Clearing players and clearing club not the same thing

If it comes down to that with the Tribunal decision, it makes an appeal and the continuation of this long running saga even more likely. In addition, it will be interesting to see how the players can be let off the hook and the apparent main offender in Dank be sanctioned.

Too many things have to be explained away: the absence of records, the AFL's player education programmes, the invoices, quantities of thymosin supplied to Alavi, the waiver forms establishing that players had reservations about the programme and the text messages between key staff members and others including Dank, Robinson, Hird, Charters and Alavi, the inconsistencies.

What does logic tell us about all of these things and what conclusion can the three Tribunal members reach to a standard of comfortable satisfaction?