Training - Friday 5th December, 2014

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Did someone hand Grimes a football at the end of it so he could practice hitting a target by foot when he is that fatigued?

Stop buying into the Roos talk.

It's not the fatigue that's the problem for Grimesy, it's the loss of self belief in his ability to execute effectively when it matters most.

Roos just says it's the fatigue because he doesn't want to say "the boys shat themselves when the game was on the line because they were too scared to make a mistake and not prepared to back themselves in to win".

Anybody who was at Etihad for the Brisbane game knows what I'm talking about.

[dazzledavey36 55,853]

Jack Viney you legend.

[nutbean 8,838]

Anybody who was at Etihad for the Brisbane game knows what I'm talking about.

why oh why did you have to remind me of that game. .....Horrific

[Pirlo 813]

• The new fella's did some ball pick up drills towards the end with Byrnes, who would randomly pass a ball on the ground, low or high around the semi circle. I think the idea was if you fumble you go to the end. Neal-Bullen spent a bit of time at the end... Stretch look good as did Petracca.

This was also done right at the start. Followed the group with Watts, Kent, Brayshaw, Terlich and McKenzie.

The latter two really struggled to take it with one grab, Watts and Brayshaw were very good, Kent was outstanding.

For reference, it was like that old drill that everyone used to do at the end of cricket training.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Gee this "Demonland Group Think" Grimes disposal issue is getting tired.

Talk about a whipping boy.

I admit his disposal is not great but hes not on his own and IMO is getting singled out.

Last season his Effective Disposal % was 78.0% compared to others below it stacks up pretty well.

Jones 73.6%

Watts 80%

Tyson 72.6%

Vince 64.7%

Garland 78.9%

Jetta 87.7%

Dunn 79.5%

I might be biased and you can make statistic work many ways but Grimes disposal is no worse than many others.

I can see pass the odd missed target and take him for what he is.

PS Matt Suckling regarded as one of the best kicks in the comp went at 78.8%

Difference is suckling is trying to hit targets 55 metres away surrounded by opponents but in position for a shot at goal. Grimesy (and others, I agree with you there) are missing targets 15 metres away with chip kicks that cost us goals.

[chook fowler 19,694]

Saty, what are your impressions of Ben Newton?

[DeeSpencer 26,265]

Does anybody else just think 'whatever' when reading about beep tests and so forth? Over the years I have noticed zero correlation between blokes who excel on the training track and players who actually do any damage on game day. Case-in-point Bail and the recently departed Nicholson. I would prefer to see the results of testing on brains, skills and guts

The winner of the endurance event is usually a guy like Nicholson who has outstanding endurance and is why they are on the list. If they had other above average qualities they'd be good players. Every now and then you have to take a chance with guys with endurance but lacking some qualities because every side needs some top runners. Look at the Hawks with Isaac Smith and Brad Hill.

So the winner doesn't matter. Nor really who came where. But it's very important to have a number of guys high up, especially midfielders.

Nath Jones is consistently top 5. Same with Daniel Cross. Toumpas, Viney and Matt Jones will be better players with better endurance. The great CHF's have great endurance so it's pleasing Hogan is up there.

You only have to play local footy to know you generally are much better when you are fitter.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Saty, what are your impressions of Ben Newton?

Still settling in, nice left foot kick, nice size, doesn't get knocked off the ball during those drills, seems to do all the work, asked him last week for a quick difference in preseasons as he was from Port, said only difference was MFC don't do Saturdays

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

There was also some strange looking devices being trialled, they are like an oven glove you put on your hand, helps lower your core temperature somehow, looking at using them in Maroochydore and Darwin, pic as well

Hey Saty, was it this? http://www.avacore.com/

I saw Richard Hammond do a report on that a few years back and the results for bringing body temp down were astounding. I think he ran an experiment where some players on a basketball team used it and some didn't, used a body temp camera to show the difference, and the guys who used it said they could player fresher for longer.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Sorry just saw your photo on twitter, looks like the one!

I'll see if I can find a link to Hammond's doco

EDIT: Apparently it's on "Richard Hammond's Miracle of Nature" Season 1 Episode 3.

I can't find a legal way of providing a link I'm afraid.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Choke

[The Chazz 4,077]

Good afternoon interested supporters, including those interstate and overseas, the PC Police and the lemon suckers

I was there again, most have covered the drills and observations already, including Grimes' win in the beep test, which I didn't think was unusual as he is one of best trainers when fit

A point on Garlett, there was another instance were he was running across field to the right, turned on a sixpence and put a ball down somebody's throat, didn't catch who, on the left, how he saw him I have no idea, leading to Roos shouting 'great vision'

The kicking and movement drills seemed very good, but Ben Mathews told me the coaches thought they were 'ordinary' today and the players were told as much, so high standards

Interesting bit in one of the contested drills, Dunny put his knees into Viney on the ground and then scragged him, was just about to get interesting when Jack Grimes stepped in to separate them, some of the hits today were meant to hurt, Toumpas got Nev Jetta a beauty as well

The new rookie Mitchell White is another big unit, did bits and pieces of the training

Aaron Vandenberg, the other new rookie, only arrived late in the morning, brought out by Shannon Byrnes obviously just to get a taste, didn't do anything

There were some new toys on display today, a camera on a pole, so they can get above ground vision, Roos showed a bit of interest before training started, there will be pic on Twitter Demonpk, later

There was also some strange looking devices being trialled, they are like an oven glove you put on your hand, helps lower your core temperature somehow, looking at using them in Maroochydore and Darwin, pic as well

Spoke to Max King, who is a really good kick, got him fit now, weighs in at about 94k now, they want him eventually up around the 100k mark, thinks he is still growing height wise as well

Jack Trengove was out there as well, with his trike, pic on Twitter later

Spoke to Chris Dawes to confirm he is on an individual program for him, answer is yes, being slightly older and 100k they are doing it slightly different

Any questions feel free

Saty, as part of the new posting guidelines, can I please ask you a couple of questions? I will put pre-new guidelines and post-new guidelines to avoid any uncertainty;

* Where is Roos situated on the ground during drills?

(Is Roos out in the middle of the field when shouting? If yes, does it hurt your ears when he does this and do you quietly tell him not to yell?)

* In what way did Toumpas clean Jetta up? Ie Drill, method, etc.

(How did you let Toumpas past you, ensuring he was able to get to Jetta?)

As always, appreciative of your training reviews. It is often so realistic that I feel I can smell the urine coming from behind the rubbish bins.

[DeeSpencer 26,265]

Gee this "Demonland Group Think" Grimes disposal issue is getting tired.

Talk about a whipping boy.

I admit his disposal is not great but hes not on his own and IMO is getting singled out.

Last season his Effective Disposal % was 78.0% compared to others below it stacks up pretty well.

Jones 73.6%

Watts 80%

Tyson 72.6%

Vince 64.7%

Garland 78.9%

Jetta 87.7%

Dunn 79.5%

I might be biased and you can make statistic work many ways but Grimes disposal is no worse than many others.

I can see pass the odd missed target and take him for what he is.

PS Matt Suckling regarded as one of the best kicks in the comp went at 78.8%

Forget Tyson, Vince and Jones. Inside mids always have a lower DE. Vince particularly kicks too often from packs, not that I blame him.

Dunn, Garland and Jetta are proper comparisons because they play similar positions. Jetta plays it pretty safe and therefore has a high DE. Nearly 10 points higher which is a fair margin.

Garland and Dunn are hardly elite users either. But both go longer and riskier than Grimes. They also both play closer to goal and are more defensive anyway.

No doubt a better midfield would help. Particularly an outside runner like Lumumba who gets back to help then runs to be an option, same if Matt Jones, Watts, Toumpas etc are better. Add in better half forward options - Hogan, Petracca etc, fitter Kent and JKH. But if Grimes doesn't back his skills and run and then execute he wont make the side any better. Which means much less short and sideways options and more run, carry and effective rebound.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Toumpas got Nev with a perfect shirtfront, think Nev will note it down

Roos is all over the place at training, you can tell when he is not happy, you can hear him over the fence no matter where he is

[jnrmac 20,271]

Interesting, how would you compare thier AFL careers so far?

We are just waiting for Sylvia to get a full pre-season. And then watch out.....

He'll be a gun one day that boy....

[DeeSpencer 26,265]

Toumpas got Nev with a perfect shirtfront, think Nev will note it down

Roos is all over the place at training, you can tell when he is not happy, you can hear him over the fence no matter where he is

It's the first difference I noted from him and Neeld who half the time seemed completely missing at training.

This group needs some hard coaching. Not so much in that they need abuse, but they need constant advice to get things right and need to be taught. Under Neeld training just seemed to go round and round with skill errors and poor technique going unchecked.

[the grint 71]

What was the deal with Dunny and Viney

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

What was the deal with Dunny and Viney

Not a deal, it was right in front of me and another supporter, looked for all money that Dunn put his knees into Viney, then proceeded to scrag him, Jack Grimes just pulled them apart, probably to stop it escalating, but during this drill there was quite of bit of venom in the tackling, think the coaches demanded it.

Toumpas got Nev Jetta later

As long as it doesn't get ugly this is what you want to see

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

What's a scrag?

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

What's a scrag?

Sorry English term, having a person on the ground and not caring what you grab to keep them there, Roos has got them belting and wrestling each other on a regular basis, one of the highlights of this years training for me, apart from the improved ball use, they are slowly and surely beginning to look like a Roos coached team

[Slartibartfast 17,985]

I see Dunny hasn't changed. In preseason of 2013 he cleaned up Ro Bail when he was competing in a drill. Bail was wearing the vest that indicates he was injured (recovering from concussion) and should not be involved in body contact but Dunny couldn't resist cleaning him up despite the playing group knowing Bail's condition. It was very late as well.

Nearly ended Ro's career. I've never seen the need for this sort of thing at training. Dunn typically picks on those where he has a physical advantage. He tried it with Chappy in the 186 game at the end of the first quarter and ended up on the ground in the fetal position with Chappy standing over him laughing.

Dunn was very good in the first half of last year and saved his career. Strange how his form slipped as soon as he re-signed.

I can never reconcile the really good work he does with the disadvantaged and the gutless stuff he does on field. I hope he grows up.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

What's a scrag?

Kinda girls I bring home from the local on a Friday night....

Edit: it's just a joke, stay calm

Edited December 5, 2014 by Mad_Melbourne

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I see Dunny hasn't changed. In preseason of 2013 he cleaned up Ro Bail when he was competing in a drill. Bail was wearing the vest that indicates he was injured (recovering from concussion) and should not be involved in body contact but Dunny couldn't resist cleaning him up despite the playing group knowing Bail's condition. It was very late as well.

Nearly ended Ro's career. I've never seen the need for this sort of thing at training. Dunn typically picks on those where he has a physical advantage. He tried it with Chappy in the 186 game at the end of the first quarter and ended up on the ground in the fetal position with Chappy standing over him laughing.

Dunn was very good in the first half of last year and saved his career. Strange how his form slipped as soon as he re-signed.

I can never reconcile the really good work he does with the disadvantaged and the gutless stuff he does on field. I hope he grows up.

Roos has them boxing, wrestlng and grappling with encouragement from the coaches to give it everything, you never know Dunn might be under instruction to rough up the youngsters, Viney can look after himself

[DeeZee 7,445]

Gotta feeling Kent is in for a really big year.

[old dee 23,998]

I know OD....... but at the moment it is December......Posters that get to training can only post what they see at the time and report to us who cant.

I like reading the training reports.....I know that they don't mean a lot in December but I find it good to see who is doing what and when, who is pushing hard and who is not, what player are injured and how the young blokes are going......If the training we do doesn't matter then I suppose that none of the clubs would start in November.

Christmas is just around the corner OD a time for positives............You can do it......

I was simply making the observation That I don't really care if he is off the pace in December it is April I expect to see way better.

You can see it anyway but there was no negativity about it was meant to be positive about Garlett. But obviously not to you.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,102]

People kept quoting Bartrams d/e% which wasnt bad - but he would make horrible clangers ( almost momentum killers) under no pressure at all. Did two against Stkilda a few years back which swung the momentum of the game.

To be fair though, Bartram worked damn hard and became a reliable kick if not a good one. He at least got to the point where he could take the safe option and get it right.

The issue with Grimes is more mental than anything. It's when he has too much time that he overthinks things and winds up messing up. When he's under the pump I find he's a better decision-maker and hits his targets better, probably because he's just taking the option that presents itself and not trying to finesse things.