pace is important but not everything if he still has the endurance, skill and ability to get the ball and dispose of it well then he is doing a let better than most if no all of our 2nd string players. When one says he has lost a yard of pace, compared to what ? how fast was he, how does that translate into real terms now is he as slow as an injured trengrove was this year, as fast as mcdonald?? how slow do you have to be before your are ruled out. I suspect Roos and team will make the right call on him, if we get the chance.

Not for me.

34 is an old number in the AFL in 2015

WYL the old MFC/MCC thinking is if we get one or two guns we're on our way... well that thinking was around for a long time, till barass-jordan arrived. they succeeded changing it, & making us professional once again; which lasted for 10 or more years, then it gradually faded.

Culture is King to making big shifts on attitudes & standards. we have not fixed the culture Yet, we're trying, but you can see the lingering bits of it still exist on-field, & maybe off in the rooms as well.

we need more leaders, & strong onfield leadership more than anything atmo. this culture shift has to come before more kids adopt a 'lets have fun tonight attitude'. The half hearted efforts have to be weeded out of the thinking of our kids & this happens via strong On-field leaders. by voice, & by example.

If RO'K couldn't get the 38th place on our list, then as we are, we're doomed.

Edited August 17, 201411 yr by dee-luded

probably too high a risk

Much happier to trust the footy dept to make these sort of decisions these days. If they think he will have something to offer so be it.Roos and the other ex-Swans will know exactly what he could bring to the table.

There will be other "senior" players available at year end if we want them.

I am uncertain as to whether a total reversal of our "play youth" strategy of 5 years ago will be successful when our real problem is talent, not experience.

That said, I respect and like most totally saupport the strategy that Paul Roos believes is best for us. He calls the shots from the inner sanctum of an AFL club. The rest of us make up the mob outside, screaming for blood, success, change or whatever the fever of the day may be.

DL. Okeefe is not a gun anymore. His career is done.

DL. Okeefe is not a gun anymore. His career is done.

its not him being a gun we need. its him helping others to turn into guns. to help steer them in the right direction in real time. his maturity & his cool head & decision making.

We are still in transition from the mess, of close to 40 collective years. & we now have the chance to make real changes, like a host of people did off-field & on-field, between 81 - 91...

this is our best opportunity since Barass decided to put his reputation on the line to fix us up. & he brought a few old hacks over with him, knowing he had to change the ways & the thinking somehow, & that it would be extremely difficult.

it took 5 years to clean up the near enough thinking. & to root the self protection-isms out.

Edited August 17, 201411 yr by dee-luded

its not him being a gun we need. its him helping others to turn into guns. to help steer them in the right direction in real time. his maturity 7 his cool head & decision making.

We are still in transition from the mess, of close to 40 collective years. & we now have the chance to make real changes, like a host of people did off-field & on-field, between 81 - 91...

this is our best opportunity since Barass decided to put his reputation on the line to fix us up. & he brought a few old hacks over with him, knowing he had to change the ways & the thinking somehow, & that it would be extremely difficult.

it took 5 years to clean up the near enough thinking. & to root the self protection-isms out.

o'keefe decision making is no good to us if he is too slow to execute at AFL Level.

We are slow enough as it is.

If ROK wants to stay in the game it should be in the coaches box.

But he doesn't play Crossy's role.

The game will be faster in 2015 & ROK will be further off the pace.

We have to move forward not just hang on.

Who would he keep out of the current side? If they think he has 1 left in him then take him. He has the runs on the board more so than a Byrnes.

Who would he keep out of the current side? If they think he has 1 left in him then take him. He has the runs on the board more so than a Byrnes.

he could easily keep someone out of the list who is 28-29.

34 is too much of a stretch imo

I have only one thought on this.. Would the inclusion of ROK aid the development or someone(s) or actually hinder it by denying opportunity ?

he could easily keep someone out of the list who is 28-29.

34 is too much of a stretch imo

Like....

We are looking to have another big dump at seasons end, I think a spot could be found for him if the coaching panel think he has 1 left.

o'keefe decision making is no good to us if he is too slow to execute at AFL Level.

We are slow enough as it is.

If ROK wants to stay in the game it should be in the coaches box.

He would be in our top 12 players WYL, atmo.

he could easily keep someone out of the list who is 28-29.

34 is too much of a stretch imo

maybe, he already has WYL ?

ROK sitting in the forward pocket with JKH on the other side?

For one more year - yes.

If anything, I think the last 8 years have shown us that high draft picks are inconsequential if you don't have the older leaders to show them what's required to be an AFL player.

ROK is a formal norm smith medallist, former gun and most importantly former leader. In terms of overall quality, there's daylight between him and say a Byrnes or a Rodan. Even if he doesn't play a single game - ROK will be worth his weight in gold.

Honestly..... you don't put a guy on the field because he's a leader, used to be a gun or used to play under the current coach. You put him in the team because he's currently of AFL standard and will be part of your team's future. We've got too many guys who will need to be replaced soon. I admire Rhino and loved watching his career at the Swans, but he's almost 34 and can't get a senior game where he now plays. His career is over.

As part of the coaching or support staff, sure. As a player, absolutely not.

Honestly..... you don't put a guy on the field because he's a leader, used to be a gun or used to play under the current coach. You put him in the team because he's currently of AFL standard and will be part of your team's future. We've got too many guys who will need to be replaced soon. I admire Rhino and loved watching his career at the Swans, but he's almost 34 and can't get a senior game where he now plays. His career is over.

As part of the coaching or support staff, sure. As a player, absolutely not.

For once you are correct Loonshadow. We have Cross, who is fantastic. When he goes we may need another senior mentor/hard head. But.. we don't need to overload with this type of player.

just my opinion ... No. Just 3 years too late now.

Honestly..... you don't put a guy on the field because he's a leader, used to be a gun or used to play under the current coach. You put him in the team because he's currently of AFL standard and will be part of your team's future. We've got too many guys who will need to be replaced soon. I admire Rhino and loved watching his career at the Swans, but he's almost 34 and can't get a senior game where he now plays. His career is over.

As part of the coaching or support staff, sure. As a player, absolutely not.

I think we have proven the future is now. You can't force a future and games into players who are not ready. You have to create an environment where games are earnt and players both pushed and nurtured into the position to earn the games. ROK would potentially assist in that environment in he would be pushing for a game each week and showing players what they need to do to earn it. In saying that Stone and Roos would know more in where he is at.

If it's ROK vs pick 60+, I'd be tempted to go ROK.

However, he's in a vastly different situation to Cross for a number of reasons. Leaving his higher age to one side, he's also nowhere near in the same form Cross was last year (and I'm not trying to say here that Cross was setting the world on fire).

Cross played well in his last game for the Doggies against the Demons. And he has been good value this year even if he is slowing up. Probably go another year.

O'Keefe - just maybe he would be of some value for one year - but seriously there are already too many on the list to be weeded out over the next couple of years - why clog it up further?

Some future recruits going through their paces

Much happier to trust the footy dept to make these sort of decisions these days. If they think he will have something to offer so be it.Roos and the other ex-Swans will know exactly what he could bring to the table.

It's not like the intellectual might of Demonland ever had a choice in these matters but I do agree.

I tend to think he's well past it but if Roos and co think he'll have a positive impact on and off the field, then so be it. The recruiting under the new regime so far has been excellent.