See ya chip

And to top it off we r now 16 fmd.

I am calm after this loss

I think its just the realization Roos is doing best he can with what he has... hes inherited a list thats been smashed by years of terrible recruitment and player development

Bring on the draft and trade period

Yes.

[Why? What other captain I plays such error ridden football?

2 clangers. I know stats can be misleading and/or ambiguous, but that one is well defined. I know Jack isn't the greatest user of the ball and I won't even say he's not symptomatic of our problems, but it makes my blood boil when week after week, in games when more than half the oppositions scores comes from turnovers, Jack Grimes mistakes seem to be the only ones people remember.

Dom Tyson (who I am a huge, huge fan of) had 5 and currently ranked equal sixth in the competition for total clangers. I bet I'm the last person to mention him in this thread. But he doesn't have number 31 on his back or a © next to his name, so his don't matter.

I am calm after this loss

I think its just the realization Roos is doing best he can with what he has... hes inherited a list thats been smashed by years of terrible recruitment and player development

Bring on the draft and trade period

Agreed. We can't expect Roos to work miracles with players who can barely cut it. Another trade/draft period or two will improve our list drastically along with the return of players such as Hogan and Trengove.

Beaten by a better side.

Now that's an understatement Sassy.

I'd suggest that we aren't going to be drafting many people who can't kick.

I think that policy started when Prendergast left and Todd Viney took over recruiting for the 2012 Draft and Jason Taylor has done the same.

hes inherited a list thats been smashed by years of terrible recruitment and player development

And the penny drops.

Grimes is consistently poor.

Anyone still think we have a good list?

Anyone think we are about to do a Port?

Same old VFL standard players who have not been good enough for three years now.

Do you know who I think is the real problem? Dom Tyson. He turns the ball over all the time and he is singularly responsible for the losses today, earlier this season, the rest of the season and all future seasons, regardless of whether or not he plays.

He makes my blood boil.

Anyone still think we have a good list?

Anyone think we are about to do a Port?

Who thought that? No me...

They missed a flag by 15 points last year and will be right up there again this year

But still... 32 inside 50s and 4 goals.. our score was nearly tripled

Halfway through Q2 Grimes misses a sitter that would have had us within 5 points, after that at no stage did we look anywhere near even being in it as Freo kicked 12 to 3 in the remainder

Looooooooooooooong way to go, so far it seems impossible

Do you know who I think is the real problem? Dom Tyson. He turns the ball over all the time and he is singularly responsible for the losses today, earlier this season, the rest of the season and all future seasons, regardless of whether or not he plays.

He makes my blood boil.

Inscrutable humour again spunjy.

good one.

The season is to long for boys at the moment. The top teams are just starting to peek in fitness for finals and we peeked at about round 9.

There's basically only 2 games left worth watching for us till the end of the season.

Also it shows in guys like Barry and Salem playing we have no depth in our playing list, it's only taken 2-3 injuries for us to be scrapping the bottom. Barry isn't up to it at this stage and ideally needs to be learning his craft at casey and same goes for Salem he has been quiet for the past month but there's no'one to replace him. Obviously Blease, Viv, Toumpas all have deficiencies in there game that need to be improved and Roos will not pick them until they change. Even a Dom Tyson could do with a rest but we can't afford to... We are another 2 good drafts off been a side challenging for the 8. I have a feeling roos might have to stick around awhile longer, this ain't gonna be a 2 minute turn around

some of my observations today....

* I saw nothing that makes me want to watch next weeks game against the cats....

* a team that doesnt kick goals will always lose no matter how good their defense is

* tall forwards arent a problem, we need another livewire small forward. JKH? move Howe forward again? Kent, Bail, Blease???

* I dont miss Sylvia at all but if he becomes a premiership player i will throw up

*drop grimes or at seasons end he gives up the captaincy. Grimes backers will say other players make more mistakes and thats true but those players arent captains. Do you see Jones making those mistakes?

*Howe didnt take a hanger should he be dropped?

*I love Dawes game but kick a bag already!!!!

*when did a two fisted punch become a better option than marking when not trying to spoli an opponent?

Do you know who I think is the real problem? Dom Tyson. He turns the ball over all the time and he is singularly responsible for the losses today, earlier this season, the rest of the season and all future seasons, regardless of whether or not he plays.

He makes my blood boil.

I deserved that.

2 clangers. I know stats can be misleading and/or ambiguous, but that one is well defined. I know Jack isn't the greatest user of the ball and I won't even say he's not symptomatic of our problems, but it makes my blood boil when week after week, in games when more than half the oppositions scores comes from turnovers, Jack Grimes mistakes seem to be the only ones people remember.

Dom Tyson (who I am a huge, huge fan of) had 5 and currently ranked equal sixth in the competition for total clangers. I bet I'm the last person to mention him in this thread. But he doesn't have number 31 on his back or a © next to his name, so his don't matter.

I am not a Grimes hater and have never posted any criticism iof him before. I think it is clear he is a very average footballer and his onfield performances are no where near what is expected of a Captain.

Because a long work improve his skill?

*walk

Turnovers r killing us. I think they scored 50 odd points from our turnovers.

Until we minimise these we are going to be chasing tail.

Wouldn't hurt if we could kick our goals when the opportunity presents. Dawes and Grimes just to name two.

When you lose by that much you can't really make excuses but I always wonder if things would turn out differently if we took our chances when they are presented. Half way through the second quarter we should have been on top if we had taken our chances. We dominated general play in the first quarter but couldn't convert while Freo did not look switched on at all - Freo controlled the start of the second but we worked back in to it but again couldn't convert easy shots from Grimes and Dawes. The last 5 or so minutes of the second quarter we were outplayed and they converted a couple of shots which took the lead out to 5 goals at 1/2 time. The 3rd quarter we were abysmal and by then it's over.

But if we take our chances early get our tails up and put some scoreboard pressure on the opposition I reckon the game would unfold a little differently. We may not win but we'll at least be in the game.

By the way did anyone else think we should've got a free for a deliberate rushed behind in the second when they kicked backwards frokm about 40 out and it rolled through untouched for a point? I just assumed they would pay it and was shocked when they didn't especially after we copped the dodgiest one last week. My dad said yeah but he was trying to kick to his teammate" but surely that shouldn't matter in a circumstance like that where he has kicked backwards from about 40 out and it rolls through without being touched?

2 clangers. I know stats can be misleading and/or ambiguous, but that one is well defined. I know Jack isn't the greatest user of the ball and I won't even say he's not symptomatic of our problems, but it makes my blood boil when week after week, in games when more than half the oppositions scores comes from turnovers, Jack Grimes mistakes seem to be the only ones people remember.

Dom Tyson (who I am a huge, huge fan of) had 5 and currently ranked equal sixth in the competition for total clangers. I bet I'm the last person to mention him in this thread. But he doesn't have number 31 on his back or a © next to his name, so his don't matter.

Griems has been terrible all year with the exception of the Crows & Pies games. He is meant to be a leader and entering the prime of his career but he still destroys us with poor disposal and decision making and failing to keep his feet/being too weak in the contest. Look at the mark Mzungu took on him that led to a goal, that was terrible from Grimes all he had to do was read the flight of the ball and spoil but instead he tried to get contact with his man and was brushed aside like he always is.

I thought for the first 55 minutes our effort was really good, in fact at times I thought we looked the better side. If Dawes had nailed the two sitters he missed we would have been level in the second quarter.

Then up stepped the skipper and missed the unmissable from 10 metres out on a slight angle. Absolutely horrendous miss from the leader of the club. Instead of being deservedly level, we then dropped our heads and conceded three late goals to blow the margin out at half time and all but end the contest.

In a low-scoring defensive scrap you MUST take your chances.

Our third quarter was horrendous though. You could just see the effort drop away, which was really disappointing. All of a sudden they started dominating contested footy and running around on their own. Interestingly for 85 minutes of the game we conceded only five goals, but in 35 minutes (last five of the second and all of the third) we conceded 10 goals. I accept though that the last quarter they took the foot off the pedal, but for all but the last five minutes of the first half we were in it.

At the end of the day we just have too many battlers - triers who just lack class and ability. It means there are patches of games where you compete and try really hard, but ultimately you just undo your hard work with turnovers and a failure to convert opportunities up forward. Also difficult when your most talented ball user and creator has less impact on the contest than some of the spectators. I think Ben Dixon may have had more touches than Watts tonight.

A last mention to the selectors. Seriously, what the hell was that about. We already made the mistake of going too tall against the Pies, and we go and do it again. Two specialist ruckmen in Darwin against a hard running side? Four key defenders against a forward line containing one key forward and a resting ruckman? We already have a weak midfield and instead of supporting that with more run we go in with a plethora of talls. Playing Gawn was a massive error - while he shows great potential as a future no.1 ruckman he should not play in the same team as Jamar. And McKenzie on Daniel Pearce, who is probably their sixth or seventh best midfielder - I don't know why you would bother tagging him.

A really forgettable night all round.

At the end of the day we just have too many battlers - triers who just lack class and ability. It means there are patches of games where you compete and try really hard, but ultimately you just undo your hard work with turnovers and a failure to convert opportunities up forward. Also difficult when your most talented ball user and creator has less impact on the contest than some of the spectators. I think Ben Dixon may have had more touches than Watts tonight.

It's a worry when your best ball-user has 5 kicks for the game. He needs to be getting 15 kicks a game.

Of course we need more skill.

But the 2 main things we need are:

1. Fitness - clearly Kent and Salem are a fair way off and Tyson and Viney aren't mature midfielders, others like Gawn and probably Pedersen need to step it up on the track this year

2. Mental resilience to keep playing to the game plan (which whilst defensive and based on possession retention is surely not what we saw at stages tonight).

I don't know what the combined scores for minutes 1-10 compared to 10-20 would be in the quarters but it would've been something like 3 goals down to 8 goals down.