On 14/06/2014 at 11:53, dworship said:

So that's what you decided to take out of my post Bub, my case rests

I though it was a good post.

Id love to hear your thoughts on how some of out players went.

We should have our Own team playing from Punt Road.

  On 14/06/2014 at 11:53, dworship said:

So that's what you decided to take out of my post Bub, my case rests

I fully comprehended your post. You are perfectly entitled to enjoy the Scorps etc. I see them only as an adjunct to the demons. They are serving us poorly. The coach is obviously NOT stemming the flow , or rather the cause of the flow, of losses.

I've made it easy to take out what Im trying to convey.

  On 14/06/2014 at 11:57, beelzebub said:

I fully comprehended your post. You are perfectly entitled to enjoy the Scorps etc. I see them only as an adjunct to the demons. They are serving us poorly. The coach is obviously NOT stemming the flow , or rather the cause of the flow, of losses.

I've made it easy to take out what Im trying to convey.

The win/loss thing doesn't really matter. It matters that players are ready to come up and that they put pressure on the senior players for places. The reason why some of these players are at Casey is that they don't do what Roos wants. If any of them go away from the plan it falls down. I wouldn't necessarily blame Welsh, seems we have a bunch of players not playing or incapable of playing to instruction.

We also have a very young bunch of Casey listed players and this isn't helping.

I don't know how the alliance is working with Casey but I trust the club will make the right decisions going forward. I also don't know how Welsh is seen as a coach within the club, again I trust the club will make the right decisions going forward.

They might have a number of players that have played seniors but how many senior players do they have? This is the issue the firsts have had for the past 3 years. No senior players to stand up and be counted when the time comes. Sounds like another rudderless ending from a bunch of young guys following each other aimlessly. Thank goodness the firsts are passed that stage now

Kennedy Harris is the only AFL level player amongst that lot - ATM

Toumpas will be next year, but needs another year in the gym - and to work on his core.

Tapscott is a limited footballer, one paced. Looks like an inside midfielder - but has no inside game, barely VFL level.

Strauss has no awareness, will never make it as AFL player.

I think Blease could make it, I see no reason why he cannot. Blease needs to work hard, extremely hard, because he has the tools.

  On 14/06/2014 at 11:57, beelzebub said:

I fully comprehended your post. You are perfectly entitled to enjoy the Scorps etc. I see them only as an adjunct to the demons. They are serving us poorly. The coach is obviously NOT stemming the flow , or rather the cause of the flow, of losses.

I've made it easy to take out what Im trying to convey.

Obviously you don't, I didn't say I enjoy the Scorps, I'm from Ballarat, but my affinity is with the Zebras and before that Dandenong (The Redlegs and the Frosty Miller era).

My point is Casey appear to be following the same plans, structures and training as the MFC (14 MFC players ran around today).

What observations have you made from directly watching Casey games that indicate a stand alone VFL Demons team would perform better?

We could create a new VFL Demons side, employ a new coach, but we would still need to find some fringe players to make up the numbers.

From what I saw today, it wasn't just the Casey listed players or the Casey coach that contributed to the loss.

As a counter point to what your saying I'd argue that the Casey team is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, that is; provide a vehicle for the improvement of MFC players.

I think this is evidenced by the INs this week and shows how players have been allowed to work on their deficiencies/ development at Casey and the successful ones have earned a recall.

Casey winning games is not necessarily the only measure of the value and purpose of Casey.

  On 14/06/2014 at 12:06, rjay said:

The win/loss thing doesn't really matter. It matters that players are ready to come up and that they put pressure on the senior players for places. The reason why some of these players are at Casey is that they don't do what Roos wants. If any of them go away from the plan it falls down. I wouldn't necessarily blame Welsh, seems we have a bunch of players not playing or incapable of playing to instruction.

We also have a very young bunch of Casey listed players and this isn't helping.

I don't know how the alliance is working with Casey but I trust the club will make the right decisions going forward. I also don't know how Welsh is seen as a coach within the club, again I trust the club will make the right decisions going forward.

I was busy typing away and didn't see your post, thanks for helping make my point

  On 14/06/2014 at 11:56, s-t-i-n-g-a said:

I though it was a good post.

Id love to hear your thoughts on how some of out players went.

  On 14/06/2014 at 11:56, s-t-i-n-g-a said:

I though it was a good post.

Id love to hear your thoughts on how some of out players went.

Thanks Stinga,

I thought all of our young'uns continued to show signs of improvement.

I'm a fan of Dom Barry and JKH in particular. JKH didn't get a lot of possessions but he harassed and tackled all day (for a guy who was "rested" I thought he worked really hard)

Mitchie was good for 3 qtrs

Tapscott was great in the first half and just couldn't get into it in the second

I thought Gawn played well but must admit I didn't see a lot of him in the last 20mins.

Agree with everything said about Strauss recently and can see him delisted at years end if not contracted.

Mr Bean did well defensively but that was it.

Blease did what he does, will be interested to see how many disposals he actually had today

On a different note, have you ever had a beer at the Queens Head?

How did people see Jimmy's game?

Junction Oval would be my choice if we had our own reserve team.

Get it before Saints get organised. I dont think Cricket Victoria would view them any more favorably than us.

What Casey lacks is that player who grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and pulls the team over the line. Was really hoping JKH, being co-captain of Oakleigh, would've been that guy. A few posters earlier in the thread disagreed with my statement that JKH had something to prove this week. I think he had every right to prove that he was wrongfully dropped and deserves to be a part of Melbourne's best 22.

He's a champion in the making and it might take a few years to extract the absolute best out of him, but would've been great to see him stand up today and be the missing clink iin Casey's chain to get them over the line.

  On 14/06/2014 at 12:31, dworship said:

Obviously you don't, I didn't say I enjoy the Scorps, I'm from Ballarat, but my affinity is with the Zebras and before that Dandenong (The Redlegs and the Frosty Miller era).

My point is Casey appear to be following the same plans, structures and training as the MFC (14 MFC players ran around today).

What observations have you made from directly watching Casey games that indicate a stand alone VFL Demons team would perform better?

We could create a new VFL Demons side, employ a new coach, but we would still need to find some fringe players to make up the numbers.

From what I saw today, it wasn't just the Casey listed players or the Casey coach that contributed to the loss.

As a counter point to what your saying I'd argue that the Casey team is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, that is; provide a vehicle for the improvement of MFC players.

I think this is evidenced by the INs this week and shows how players have been allowed to work on their deficiencies/ development at Casey and the successful ones have earned a recall.

Casey winning games is not necessarily the only measure of the value and purpose of Casey.

but the problem is The Scorps want to win. We have 2 differng agendas

The Scorps need to win finals to stay afloat. The MFC needs a development scenario.

The twain shall never meet.

  On 14/06/2014 at 13:29, why you little said:

but the problem is The Scorps want to win. We have 2 differng agendas

The Scorps need to win finals to stay afloat. The MFC needs a development scenario.

The twain shall never meet.

And how exactly is that currently effecting the development of our players?

I didn't see anything today that was a detriment or would be better in a stand alone team.

They will stay afloat as long as we need them

  On 14/06/2014 at 14:08, dworship said:

And how exactly is that currently effecting the development of our players?

I didn't see anything today that was a detriment or would be better in a stand alone team.

They will stay afloat as long as we need them

it's helping our players but not The Casey FC

and that is why i am not a fan.

  On 14/06/2014 at 14:50, why you little said:

it's helping our players but not The Casey FC

and that is why i am not a fan.

I don't agree. There is a heavy benefit for the casey are and also for their football side. Lots of the funding for their team is Melbourne driven. They would fall into obsurity without the MFC

  On 14/06/2014 at 07:00, why you little said:

All is not well at Casey imo...

well, at least we won't have to pull our players, before the Finals series this year... we won't be making the Finals. problem solved then.

Seems that every week its only MFC players listed in the best

So either the coach is really bad or the Casey players are really bad, or both

  On 14/06/2014 at 12:31, dworship said:

My point is Casey appear to be following the same plans, structures and training as the MFC (14 MFC players ran around today).

It was actually 12 MFC players. There was no appearance from two of them.

Dan Nicholson was presumably held back for emergency duty today and Michael Evans also did not play (mystery injury of the week?).

  On 14/06/2014 at 21:38, Whispering_Jack said:

It was actually 12 MFC players. There was no appearance from two of them.

Dan Nicholson was presumably held back for emergency duty today and Michael Evans also did not play (mystery injury of the week?).

Yeah, thanks Jack, maths was never a long suit

Spoke to an impartial observer who was at the game and said that Georgiou, Toumpas and Gawn were good and Barry had an off-day, though he isn't a fan from his junior days. Mentioned that no-one was bashing the door down to get a game.

My theory.

Blease, Michie, Strauss, Gawn, Fitzy, Tapscott all aren't AFL fit. In reality that means they aren't exactly VFL fit either. If forced to work extremely hard both ways they probably will get tired in the last quarter.

Casey have little experienced VFL players who are match fit and hardened. Panozza, Best, Smith (a flukey undersized key forward) and Troy Davis (dropping back to part time and had injuries) plus maybe a handful of others. Casey doesn't have a lot of money so besides the senior coach these players probably aren't getting a lot of quality coaching and development.

Box Hill players benefit from the coaching of the Hawthorn development coaches and from the hierarchy on the way down. It's why players go there to play. Casey players aren't getting much benefit from MFC at this stage.

We will have delistings. We will find more kids like Harmes and JKH who can play good VFL in their first year. And if we do it well enough we will fill Casey up with a group of promising MFC players or at least guys like Jordie McKenzie who are always pushing their claims. There will always be 1 or 2 who are halfway out of the AFL in their final year, that's almost a reality. If we do it well enough and grow Casey then it could become Box Hill of the south east and fill it's development squad with promising kids and fill it's senior line up with guys who want an AFL shot (the Sam Gibson's and Cam Pedersen's).

I've got no doubt Roos' number 1 priority is the senior team. Next step is getting the development culture throughout the list but the time isn't ready yet. If that's a standalone team so be it. If it's Casey then the 40 minute drive is the reality and the need to plant some trees around the oval the reality but everything else can improve quickly.

From Casey's point of view I think they should stick fat with us. Let past mistakes be seen as that. And if players aren't getting the job done then that's a problem for Casey as a TEAM and for Melbourne and Casey together but it's not a MFC are screwing Casey problem.

REPEAT PERFORMANCE by KC from Casey

The Casey Scorpions travelled to wet and windy Eureka Oval, North Ballarat and repeated their now familiar pattern of taking control of a game in its early stages and then letting it slip out of their grasp without so much of a whimper in the final quarter.

The rain was teeming down when the game began and it was the Scorpions who dominated the opening quarter and slipped to a four goal lead at the first break. They continued on their merry way in the second term when they held a five goal lead in the shadows of half time but it was then that, against the run of play, the home team managed to score two late quarter goals to ease some of the pressure - goals that were to later prove so vital to the final outcome.

But with the rain falling heavily, it was difficult to contemplate anything other than a Scorpions victory on the way the game had been played out in the first half. They handled the conditions much better and had winners all over the ground with the likes of Sam Blease, Jay Kennedy-Harris, Viv Michie and Luke Tapscott full of run and relishing the greasy conditions.

The rain continued to fall but scoring was tough for the early part of the second half and when Kennedy-Harris drew first blood with Casey's ninth goal, they led by 23 points. A dour struggle ensued with the home side slowly grasping the momentum but even then, the game was a slog and the Scorpions maintained a two goal margin at three quarter time.

The final quarter was a nightmare for the visitors who capitulated without much of a fight. It was an all too familiar scenario with the Roosters constantly attacking and, but for some fighting defensive efforts from skipper Evan Panozza and Alexis Georgiou down back it could have been a far worse result. They couldn't stem the tide and North Ballarat's 4.10 to 0.2 for the quarter indicated its dominance at the end.

Casey has been criticised for these lapses and it would be easy to lay into the team and its coaches for these poor second halves but it should be remembered that the team is inexperienced and lacking in strong experienced types to complement its AFL affiliated players. This week Alex Saunders and Daniel Welsh made their debuts joining two others who did so last week. A number of other Casey listed players have yet to reach double figures. The weight of that lack of experience took its toll in the tough conditions which prevailed at Eureka Oval and resulted in a 20-point defeat for the Scorpions.

Things will not be any easier for them next Saturday when they take on Box Hill at home in the ABC telecast match of the round.

2014 Peter Jackson VFL

Casey Scorpions 5.2.32 8.5.53 9.7.61 9.9.63

North Ballarat 1.3.9 5.5.35 7.7.49 11.17.83

Goals

Casey Scorpions Best Blease Fitzpatrick Harmes Kennedy-Harris Page Smith Tapscott Toumpas

North Ballarat Couch McKenzie 2 George Horbury Jacobs Keeble Staley Tate Wallace

Best

Casey Scorpions Georgiou Michie Toumpas Tapscott Blease Davis

North Ballarat Rippon Dumont Peters Couch Horbury McKenzie

Despite the loss, good to see Michie, Tapscott, Toumpas and Blease in the bests.

A late entry just to welcome back KC and thank all those who put this thread up.

I did keep up with events as posted but couldnt get my response to work until today