2 x Ego's in big denial. not wanting the truth.

You cannot read much into the reactions of tired players while copping a serve.

Frawley fluctuates between great and poor as a forward. Can't be easy to just totally switch your mindset when you've played in defense all your career, but our lack of forward options is still hurting us.

Think the Watts midfielder experiment may be over. Shove him deep forward and pray he learns how to mark.

the opposition that are in line for finals this year, will pay more attention to Frawley's methods as a forward, & did in this past game IMO.

We were penalized too often for going in and getting the ball.. Only soft skilful players are protected in the game now ..NOT Hard , skilful Players..The rules are stuffing ball getters.. The player who ferociously attacks the ball is invariably penalized for sliding into another player (normally just holding off with no intention of getting into the contest) Also the player making a genuine attempt to go and get the ball is 9 times out of 10 stalked by a soft C..k sweating on him to grab the ball only to be grabbed from behind or jumped on and then penalized for holding the ball when it is impossible to get rid of it in any way... Rule HAS to be looked at, otherwise will stop players from being first to the ball.. Stuffing the game completely !!

IMO it all comes back to too many rotations & then the ability of too many players to run back & forth, one end to the other. Make the players fatigue & they will drop back to position more. Less congestion.

less bludgers hovering like seagulls.

IMO there is a very good chance that Watts and Howe will play against the Crows.

I believe part of the reason will be because there is really no one playing in the reserves that can take their place.

It shows to me again the poor state of our list.

Think you are right 'old dee', a few had their chance to put the hand up at Casey on Sunday and don't seem to want a promotion or as you say are just not good enough.

Edited April 28, 201411 yr by rjay

If the leadership group have any clout at all, it may be their role to take a stand against Jack Watts being in the ones each week.

You cant expect team players to put in, when they watch that. Its not just this week or last week, his onfield performance must be bad for team harmony.

I do remember hearing about the Geelong leadership group sitting a youngish Gary Ablett Jnr down and basically saying to him that "he had all the skills in the world, but his work rate was not up to scratch, and he was lazy at training and in games" (para-phrasing). He says it was the biggest wake up call of his career and well, we all know what has happened to him after.

Perhaps it's time for ours to do the same, by the sounds of a disgruntled Cross in the post match interview he may just do it himself!

I think you make a good point here, my gut feel is that Roos' philosophy is not to swing axes but to just try and 'fix' a player.. can anyone recall his time at Sydney, was he an axeswinger?

Although, to be fair, I don't think he had to deal with the type of soft, uncommitted football that has plagued this club for the last decade at least. The same things that are said about Watts were said about Bruce, Green, Yze, Robbo and Johnstone at various stages of their careers.

Thats right, thats the old Hollywood Boulevard culture right there. they all grew from it; as has JackW, Morton, Howe now, Jurrah, & so many more.

Now lets see, which ones didn't have that arrogance? Jnr Mac, Godfrey, Miller, etc etc. the hard workers. & we let those go & kept the 'stars'. entertainers. clean pair of heels types.

No wonder our kids all flopped, like ice-cream under the Hollywood Sun heat.

people are dreaming if they think Watts will not be dropped

hes gone 100%

Riley to make his MFC debut i hope

Just that 1 change will make us a better team based on intensity and heart alone

Watched the game with my old man and i have to agree with his comments on Watts.

"Get him off the field and put someone else on that will tackle and chase"...I cannot defend his lack of endeavor anymore. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than Jog Watts.

There was footage shown before the game with Cameron Ling pointing out Watts' chasing in the Gold Coast game.

Chris Dawes sprinted from 15m behind Watts and chased Watts' man, didn't manage to tackle him, although put him under pressure all the while Watts just jogged along like it was never his responsibility.

People are surprised that players like Dunn, M Jones, Pederson ect are improving while others with more talent aren't.

The simple answer is that players willing to put the effort in and can play a roll are the type of players the fit the Roos game style.

I'll be happy to see those players that think they're above the team, or in some way special and don't have to play by the team rules, moved on at years end.

wattsy E`lite, of course he is. he'll show us one day, you'll all see

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGFA2N0oS1Q

Here's the vision of Paul Roos talking to Jack Watts and Jeremy Howe last night:

Wow the only think more powerful for me than the look of Roos' face is the look of Howe almost saying "what are you picking on us for?"

Watts' game was so incredibly frustrating, he never took responsibility on himself to do anything. He'd handball it off as if to say, "your turn you sort this out." At least one of them needs to be dropped this week, not as punishment but for the simple fact they are not contributing to the team. Both are dining out on one good performance each but time is up. We're unlikely to win this week against Adelaide, drop them to show the rest of the group if you aren't going to contribute then you are useless to us.

Players like Cross must just shake their heads at these guys, someone who's had to kick scratch and bite for everything in his career.

Edited April 28, 201411 yr by Pates

Watched the game with my old man and i have to agree with his comments on Watts.

"Get him off the field and put someone else on that will tackle and chase"...I cannot defend his lack of endeavor anymore. I don't think he'll ever be anything more than Jog Watts.

There was footage shown before the game with Cameron Ling pointing out Watts' chasing in the Gold Coast game.

Chris Dawes sprinted from 15m behind Watts and chased Watts' man, didn't manage to tackle him, although put him under pressure all the while Watts just jogged along like it was never his responsibility.

People are surprised that players like Dunn, M Jones, Pederson ect are improving while others with more talent aren't.

The simple answer is that players willing to put the effort in and can play a roll are the type of players the fit the Roos game style.

I'll be happy to see those players that think they're above the team, or in some way special and don't have to play by the team rules, moved on at years end.

wattsy E`lite, of course he is. he'll show us one day, you'll all see

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGFA2N0oS1Q

Realistically I think you're right. Watts importantly provides another tall option to float forward, and if he can manage to mark the ball it will be.a bonus.

Both will play this week, but there is little doubt that both deserve to be dropped.

we're not playing for points. We're playing to instil the right methods, values, & culture, at this stage. To do the right team thing. I would hate to play in a team where the 2 most naturally talented players were just snoring, when we all busted our guts.

If the leadership group have any clout at all, it may be their role to take a stand against Jack Watts being in the ones each week.

You cant expect team players to put in, when they watch that. Its not just this week or last week, his onfield performance must be bad for team harmony.

agreed Frank_31, I've been watching the team interaction with Jack after the end of matches, for a few weeks now. He seems very popular & accepted, so maybe they've been too easy on him, till now.

Edited April 28, 201411 yr by dee-luded

You cannot read much into the reactions of tired players while copping a serve.

why not, its a natural reaction for most people to do, when faced with the truth they really didn't believe.

being faced down with what you don't like is a big hurdle to face, & denial is most common. the denial was on Howes face. that I saw.

Think you are right 'old dee', a few had their chance to put the hand up at Casey on Sunday and don't seem to want a promotion or as you say are just not good enough.

Melbourne team: round six

B: Alex Georgiou, Lynden Dunn, Dean Terlich

HB: Jeremy Howe, Tom McDonald, Jack Grimes

C: Daniel Cross, Bernie Vince, Jack Watts

HF: Matt Jones, Chris Dawes, Jack Viney

F: Cam Pedersen, James Frawley, Rohan Bail

FOLL: Mark Jamar, Nathan Jones, Dom Tyson

I/C: Shannon Byrnes, Jay Kennedy-Harris, Christian Salem, Neville Jetta

EMG: Jake Spencer, Mitch Clisby, Daniel Nicholson

Out: Jordie McKenzie, Jake Spencer, Michael Evans

*they get promoted on weeks of efforts, not one poor game where the whole Casey team was Off.

No i didn't. Play Watts in the seniors and we will get more of the same. His attitude is not right. I honestly thought Roosy had got him firing after Round 1. I was wrong.

Jack has got to want to reach the next level. He has had 5 years of hiding behind excuses. The biggest one himself.

He is not going to mess up his hairstyle to win a single contest. Let alone a 2 hour battle.

Yes, you did and are.

I have called for him to be dropped because that level of effort is not acceptable.

By the same token, who do we have that is remotely like for like with Watts? An athletic 196cm midfielder that is one of a handful of elite kicks and is equal second on the goals tally for the year? Not much of a claim to fame, but in a team that is seriously struggling in that area, we need goal kickers. He has assets that pretty much no other player on our list has.

Once again, I believe he should be dropped as a statement to him and the team, but I can see the counter argument for another chance being given.

This would however be his LAST chance.

Wow the only think more powerful for me than the look of Roos' face is the look of Howe almost saying "what are you picking on us for?"

Watts' game was so incredibly frustrating, he never to responsibility on himself to do anything. He'd handball it off as if to say, "your turn you sort this out." At least one of them needs to be dropped this week, not as punishment but for the simple fact they are not contributing to the team. Both are dining out on one good performance each but time is up. We're unlikely to win this week against Adelaide, drop them to show the rest of the group if you aren't going to contribute then you are useless to us.

Players like Cross must just shake their heads at these guys, someone who's had to kick scratch and bite for everything in his career.

we are finally starting to see for the first time in what must be 16 years, the first true leaders in the team, except for JnrMac & belatedly Neita. Dawes & Cross to shake things up a bit, & rattle the old demon cage, trying to wake it up again.

Yes, you did and are.

I have called for him to be dropped because that level of effort is not acceptable.

By the same token, who do we have that is remotely like for like with Watts? An athletic 196cm midfielder that is one of a handful of elite kicks and is equal second on the goals tally for the year? Not much of a claim to fame, but in a team that is seriously struggling in that area, we need goal kickers. He has assets that pretty much no other player on our list has.

Once again, I believe he should be dropped as a statement to him and the team, but I can see the counter argument for another chance being given.

This would however be his LAST chance.

And i am saying we don't have to exchange like for like this week.

Attitude is what we replace Watts with. His attitude has shown it will not change.

Don't worry about the silky 196 credentials right now.

Give me a blue collar tryer who can grasp a chance....(Pederson style)

Watts is not a fighter

Kent could easily come in and replace either Watts or Howe - I wouldn't mind seeing what Riley has to offer either but my concern is he doesn't have the fitness up considering his long injury layoff.

Yes, you did and are.

I have called for him to be dropped because that level of effort is not acceptable.

By the same token, who do we have that is remotely like for like with Watts? An athletic 196cm midfielder that is one of a handful of elite kicks and is equal second on the goals tally for the year? Not much of a claim to fame, but in a team that is seriously struggling in that area, we need goal kickers. He has assets that pretty much no other player on our list has.

Once again, I believe he should be dropped as a statement to him and the team, but I can see the counter argument for another chance being given.

This would however be his LAST chance.

I wouldn't stuff around with him at all from now on. spoilt kids have fed of others kindness without giving any respect back. this is watts hindering him. he has to be dropped & out for a month at least.

its not an ideal world, but when Toump is ready, he can come back in for watts's spot. in the mean time bring in Riley, Clisby, Kent, even Nicholson

Howe on notice.

Edited April 28, 201411 yr by dee-luded

I wouldn't stuff around with him at all from now on. spoilt kids have fed of others kindness without giving any respect back. this is watts hindering him. he has to be dropped & out for a month at least.

its not an ideal world, but when Toump is ready, he can come back in for watts's spot. in the mean time bring in Riley, Clisby, Kent, even Nicholson

Howe on notice.

I wouldn't either. I just like to look at and acknowledge both sides to an argument.

The challenge for Roos is to get him to replicate his performance in Round 1. That was a physical game, but he didn't look as out of place as he has recently. For whatever reason, his confidence and application has plummeted since then.

If he is dropped it won't be for a month. If he strings together a couple of solid weeks he will slot back in.

Watts has got three years including this one, he has plenty of chances left.

For those looking at a trade - take the emotion out - is he worth more to a Roos-led Melbourne than Pick 40?

Roos should back himself to get something out of him.

Watts has got three years including this one, he has plenty of chances left.

For those looking at a trade - take the emotion out - is he worth more to a Roos-led Melbourne than Pick 40?

Roos should back himself to get something out of him.

Of course Roos will back himself

But hes not stupid, and he will know theres nothing to get out of Watts

and yes id take pick 40 for him, thats where we drafted guys like Dean Kent, JKH and Tom McDonald

All much better players than Watts and all 3 have a dip

Just noticed that in the still from the video above (with Roos talking to Howe and Watts) Vince, who is right in front of them, appears to be smiling. I wonder if he having a chuckle at the serve they are getting

Just heard a few lines from a Roos interview today.

Saying he surprised at the against directed at Watts to be dropped by the Media in general.

Now I did not hear it all but it suggested to me he won't be dropped.

Now did I hear it wrong or is Roos playing games with the media?

Just heard a few lines from a Roos interview today.

Saying he surprised at the against directed at Watts to be dropped by the Media in general.

Now I did not hear it all but it suggested to me he won't be dropped.

Now did I hear it wrong or is Roos playing games with the media?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-28/watts-the-problem

won't be dropped.

Just heard a few lines from a Roos interview today.

Saying he surprised at the against directed at Watts to be dropped by the Media in general.

Now I did not hear it all but it suggested to me he won't be dropped.

Now did I hear it wrong or is Roos playing games with the media?

General soreness or like others have said nobody put their hand up yesterday

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-28/watts-the-problem

won't be dropped.

Thanks Jacey just read the above.

Interesting he "just ask Watts and Howe for a big last quarter"

Would appear it had bugger all effect..

Edited April 28, 201411 yr by old dee

people are dreaming if they think Watts will not be dropped

hes gone 100%

"100%" about an hour before Roos says he won't be dropped.

Is that you, Freak?

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-28/watts-the-problem

won't be dropped.

Edited April 28, 201411 yr by Axis of Bob