I think the team has improved 20 to 30% on last year, there is more effort , better recruits and more structure.

We have a good coaching group, and a game plan to work on.

Had some bad luck with Trenners and key talls going down which hasnt helped at all, but also some like Watts and Howe are yet to lift and play the way they are needed to by their coach.

Seriously, you're not that dumb are you.

Points for means nothing if you're not also taking into consideration points against.

Yes last year we averaged 66, but our opponents scored 122.

This year we average 56 (so far), but our opponents average 84.

Get some context and some understanding of footy, please.

Looks like we really are becoming the new Sydney. More worried about being scored against then kicking a big score.

still at least there is more effort this year

I also find it amusing that the bloke who used to jump down all and sundry's throats if they ever dared challenge the wisdom of CS's tanki... err... 'list management' strategy is now complaining about mediocrity and lack of competitiveness. Miracles will never cease.

The list management wasn't the problem, its how it was implemented that was poor. & the loss of our hardest workers, was wrong... they should have been the teachers. the high wire acts should have been traded.

and the use of our kids in they're development was very bad. they should have stayed in the ressies for a minimum of 20 games, before being given just a taste, then back to develop some more.

Not catapulted into matches on the biggest of stages.

Looks like we really are becoming the new Sydney. More worried about being scored against then kicking a big score.

still at least there is more effort this year

one thing at a time TFH.

learn the basics first. then when they're down pat, we can learn to attack a bit more.

learning to have the sweets before the main meal, doesn't create good habits.

Unfortunately Titan, it's a bit like asking which would you rather eat...... a faeces sandwich or a vomit smoothie. Neither are palatable.

Who said we should be happy with either?

Despite the better of the two options still not being good, clearly the 56 and 84 option is far superior and demonstrates a significant improvement on last year's 66 and 120 mould.

In every game last year the opposition scored 90 points or more against us, with there only being three games where we kept the opposition to below three figures. In comparison, after 6 games this year, only one team has scored over 100 points against us with the other five falling between 58 and 86. That tells us two things - as supporters we are watching games where we can have a belief we are a chance of winning, irrespective of how badly we might be playing, because the points we have to score to win appear achievable. And, secondly, we are involved in some really ugly games of football.

That latter point is possibly more damaging with respect to our 2014 membership levels; but the prospects for increased membership in 2015 are heightened by the first point (as long as we don't go backwards from here).

The list management wasn't the problem, its how it was implemented that was poor. & the loss of our hardest workers, was wrong... they should have been the teachers. the high wire acts should have been traded.

Actually it was. The entire tanking strategy inculcated our list with a losing mentality, burnt long standing servants of the clubs and sent a horrible message.

For someone to complain about unintentional mediocrity but to be cool with deliberate mediocrity is truly breathtaking.

I still don't understand why commentators are having a crack at our game plan. Nearly crashed my car yesterday listening to Hudson bemoan our game plan. This from a bloke who wears brown zinc cream whenever a Geelong player is around. We lost this game last year by a bear 90 points. This year it's 31. Surely that's evidence if improvement. They get stuck into us when we leak goals and now they are doing it because we don't. I loved Saturday night. I haven't seen a Melbourne team attack a player or tackle as hard as they did for years!!! We haven't been that tough since the danniher years and even they were hit and miss. Port making finals last year was the worst thing that could have happened for us as everyone expects us to do it. Our list is sooooo much better but still needs huge overhauls. Get Crossy to be roos understudy. he'd have been an amazing captain for the dees, much as what jones will be if given the chance. Everyone would be staying he is an all australian if he was at a collingwood, Geelong, hawthorn etc. if I hadn't already signed up if definitely have done it based on what I've seen. We will cause a few headaches in the second half of the year!

I still don't understand why commentators are having a crack at our game plan. Nearly crashed my car yesterday listening to Hudson bemoan our game plan. This from a bloke who wears brown zinc cream whenever a Geelong player is around. We lost this game last year by a bear 90 points. This year it's 31. Surely that's evidence if improvement. They get stuck into us when we leak goals and now they are doing it because we don't. I loved Saturday night. I haven't seen a Melbourne team attack a player or tackle as hard as they did for years!!! We haven't been that tough since the danniher years and even they were hit and miss. Port making finals last year was the worst thing that could have happened for us as everyone expects us to do it. Our list is sooooo much better but still needs huge overhauls. Get Crossy to be roos understudy. he'd have been an amazing captain for the dees, much as what jones will be if given the chance. Everyone would be staying he is an all australian if he was at a collingwood, Geelong, hawthorn etc. if I hadn't already signed up if definitely have done it based on what I've seen. We will cause a few headaches in the second half of the year!

ENYAW if you're online, could you please translate the above for me?

I still don't understand why commentators are having a crack at our game plan. Nearly crashed my car yesterday listening to Hudson bemoan our game plan. This from a bloke who wears brown zinc cream whenever a Geelong player is around. We lost this game last year by a bear 90 points. This year it's 31. Surely that's evidence if improvement. They get stuck into us when we leak goals and now they are doing it because we don't. I loved Saturday night. I haven't seen a Melbourne team attack a player or tackle as hard as they did for years!!! We haven't been that tough since the danniher years and even they were hit and miss. Port making finals last year was the worst thing that could have happened for us as everyone expects us to do it. Our list is sooooo much better but still needs huge overhauls. Get Crossy to be roos understudy. he'd have been an amazing captain for the dees, much as what jones will be if given the chance. Everyone would be staying he is an all australian if he was at a collingwood, Geelong, hawthorn etc. if I hadn't already signed up if definitely have done it based on what I've seen. We will cause a few headaches in the second half of the year!

ENYAW if you're online, could you please translate the above for me?

NO SEGWAY!

Or segue, for that matter.

NO SEGWAY!

We - have - improved.

Does that help?

Tell a twelve year old we are improving, but still losing.

I said to my son last week, you can see the improvement son, and he said i dont care i just want to win.

I dont blame him he has seen one bloody win in three years of going to the footy, poor kid.

Needless to say he isnt coming with me tonite because he is scared we will lose, like he is some sort of jinx.

The team i love is making the son i love miserable...conundrum.

This is how kids see it, win or lose, black or white.

Probably time for you to explain to your 12 year old that life's complicated. Not everything is black and white.

Unless, of course, you're a sloganistic politician trying to capture the support of the dumb ass majority of brain dead apathetic voters in this country.

Probably time for you to explain to your 12 year old that life's complicated. Not everything is black and white.

Unless, of course, you're a sloganistic politician trying to capture the support of the dumb ass majority of brain dead apathetic voters in this country.

He understands that, he is a smart kid,all im saying us being a Dees supporter is Joyless,and the kids probably feel it the most,as they get stirred at school,and arent really given a chance to fall in love with the game or the team because they associate it with pain.

Having said that we both still have hope...we have to, its all weve got.......otherwise we would not call ourselves Demon supporters.

I dont give a flying what the commentators or cheap journos think of our gameplan.

As long as the opposition hurt at the end of the game we will improve.

Looks like we really are becoming the new Sydney. More worried about being scored against then kicking a big score.

still at least there is more effort this year

we're not scoring because our forward line has taken time to get it together, once we have everyone up and firing it should be better.

Tell a twelve year old we are improving, but still losing.

I said to my son last week, you can see the improvement son, and he said i dont care i just want to win.

I dont blame him he has seen one bloody win in three years of going to the footy, poor kid.

Needless to say he isnt coming with me tonite because he is scared we will lose, like he is some sort of jinx.

The team i love is making the son i love miserable...conundrum.

This is how kids see it, win or lose, black or white.

My daughter is 10 and still loves going to the footy to see the Demons, a couple of times last year l said, "thats it, i've had enough" but she would say l haven't and would continue to love the club and say she was going to keep supporting them even if l didn't. Of course l was never going to stop, afraid l've been a Demon since the day l was born, love the club. Anyway my point is she has shown me the way and is very much like l was when l was a kid. She just loves the mighty red and blue, end of story.

My daughter is 10 and still loves going to the footy to see the Demons, a couple of times last year l said, "thats it, i've had enough" but she would say l haven't and would continue to love the club and say she was going to keep supporting them even if l didn't. Of course l was never going to stop, afraid l've been a Demon since the day l was born, love the club. Anyway my point is she has shown me the way and is very much like l was when l was a kid. She just loves the mighty red and blue, end of story.

I have a five month old that is already a member and hope to god she is the same otherwise I'll would be devastated but we do need to win a few to keep the young ones interested

He understands that, he is a smart kid,all im saying us being a Dees supporter is Joyless,and the kids probably feel it the most,as they get stirred at school,and arent really given a chance to fall in love with the game or the team because they associate it with pain.

Having said that we both still have hope...we have to, its all weve got.......otherwise we would not call ourselves Demon supporters.

Read him some Nietzsche - nothing worthwhile in this world comes without struggle.

Not to invalidate the improvements the team has made, but I find it sad, bordering depressing that we're all so desperately scattering around looking for ways in which the team has improved, no matter how trivial they may be.

This team needs to start winning.

I dont give a flying what the commentators or cheap journos think of our gameplan.
As long as the opposition hurt at the end of the game we will improve.

Well, Roos' gameplay circa 2005 was blasted, too. The difference being that that team always seemed with a chance to win.

Let's be honest: in all the games this year, despite most of them being pretty close, none of them felt like Melbourne was ever really going to run over the top and win.

The only way this team will win is if it's able to get to a 3-4 goal advantage at some point in the second half. If that goes the other way, it won't win. It doesn't score enough to make much of a turnaround beyond 2-3 goals. Asking for a 4-6 goal turn around in the 2nd half is a big ask for a team average 50 points a game.

Edited April 29, 201411 yr by Cudi_420

Not to invalidate the improvements the team has made, but I find it sad, bordering depressing that we're all so desperately scattering around looking for ways in which the team has improved, no matter how trivial they may be.

This team needs to start winning.

Well, Roos' gameplay circa 2005 was blasted, too. The difference being that that team always seemed with a chance to win.

Let's be honest: in all the games this year, despite most of them being pretty close, none of them felt like Melbourne was ever really going to run over the top and win.

The only way this team will win is if it's able to get to a 3-4 goal advantage at some point in the second half. If that goes the other way, it won't win. It doesn't score enough to make much of a turnaround beyond 2-3 goals. Asking for a 4-6 goal turn around in the 2nd half is a big ask for a team average 50 points a game.

This is overly and unnecessarily negative.

Why do you feel that winning is the only way to validate improvement?

It's unfathomable that there are MFC supporters who, having been firsthand witnesses to how low we went under Neeld, cannot see improvement when it slaps them in the face. And that's another thing I can't agree with in your post, where you say we are 'scattering around' looking for improvement. The improvement is there to see. We're not leaking goals. We're tacking harder. We're kicking more, we're not dropping our heads as often, and we have a better, though not perfect, structure. We've also been in the contest deep into 5 out of our 6 games so far. At this point last year that figure probably was 1 out of 6.

Unfortunately Reverend Two of your three conditions are some ways off being resolved.

Mick won last night so his ego is back to " I am the greatest" and the Bombers thing will not be resolved in 2014 if ever.

Look like there is still a long long way to go.

I might have to head out for another 40 days and nights in the desert to seek clarification, cos the Mick thing has shaken my belief just a tad. As for the bombers, I believe it will have an outcome by mid year. Whilst I don't particularly wish ill on anybody, it would be pleasing to see some justice handed out.

At this stage OD, if I give up hope all I've got is whisky and Tony Abbott is probably going to take that away from me before long.

I might have to head out for another 40 days and nights in the desert to seek clarification, cos the Mick thing has shaken my belief just a tad. As for the bombers, I believe it will have an outcome by mid year. Whilst I don't particularly wish ill on anybody, it would be pleasing to see some justice handed out.

At this stage OD, if I give up hope all I've got is whisky and Tony Abbott is probably going to take that away from me before long.

I think you're confusing floods and deserts. It was 40 years that Moses spent in the desert; 40 days and nights that Noah spent in the ark while it rained (plus another 40, just to be sure).

In every game last year the opposition scored 90 points or more against us, with there only being three games where we kept the opposition to below three figures. In comparison, after 6 games this year, only one team has scored over 100 points against us with the other five falling between 58 and 86. That tells us two things - as supporters we are watching games where we can have a belief we are a chance of winning, irrespective of how badly we might be playing, because the points we have to score to win appear achievable. And, secondly, we are involved in some really ugly games of football.

That latter point is possibly more damaging with respect to our 2014 membership levels; but the prospects for increased membership in 2015 are heightened by the first point (as long as we don't go backwards from here).

I think the vast majority share my opinion, which is that we don't care what it looks like if it's a win (or at least not a shelacking)