WATTS, SHORT CIRCUITING OR NOT?

[nutbean 8,837]

The difference between APS Schoolboy Football & TAC comp.

Attitude.

Watts should never have been pick 1. He hadn't been tested. Same could be said for $cully.

Attitude not right.

Niether have progressed from year 1.

Yet both ripped it up at the State championships.

Shows the gulf between TAC and AFL - talent alone won't get you there but more to the point it shows the gulf between attitude and lack of attitude

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

Yet both ripped it up at the State championships.

Shows the gulf between TAC and AFL - talent alone won't get you there but more to the point it shows the gulf between attitude and lack of attitude

exactly right. Those boys should have been pick 30 at best.

Both are still playing like first year recruits.

Richard Branson is right. When looking to employ always employ an attitude, the rest can be taught.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Watts is finished as a player, he just doesn't show the desire to compete and if he was sent back to Casey he would just prolong the inevitable.

He could cruise back there, do a bit of fancy stuff here and there and not even get his hair messed up. No point unless he is prepared to do what's required of a modern day footballer and that's hard running, hard tackling and a real commitment for the ball and the team.

Whilst I didn't abuse him on Saturday night, I did yell out in frustration, many times, that he should at least run to the contest and not just jog along and that he should at least look like he was interested. I doubt I've seen a worse game played by any footballer in my time watching the game and by that I mean the real lack of any appetite for the contest; I've seen players given a bath many times but I've never seen one simply not try, or give up.

The stuff he puts out there every week can have a detrimental on the rest of the group and we just don't need that anymore.

He's copped more shyte from the fans, both ours and others, than almost any footballer I've ever come across in my time and I wonder if the expectation and abuse has just destroyed him.

[ManDee 7,093]

The difference between APS Schoolboy Football & TAC comp.

Attitude.

Watts should never have been pick 1. He hadn't been tested. Same could be said for $cully.

Attitude not right.

Niether have progressed from year 1.

Not a good draft 2008 but most rated Watts in best 2.

Nic Nat 10 disposals (60% eff) 1 mark 14 hit outs last week has been hopeless.

Watts 15 (60%) 3 marks

Both seem to have the little boy lost syndrome and don't know what to do or where to go.

1 1 Melbourne Jack Watts Melbourne 79

2 West Coast Nicholas Naitanui West Coast 94

3 Fremantle Stephen Hill Fremantle 114

4 Port Adelaide Hamish Hartlett Port Adelaide 74

5 Essendon Michael Hurley Essendon 85

6 Carlton Christopher Yarran Carlton 90

7 Brisbane Daniel Rich Brisbane 101

8 Richmond Tyrone Vickery Richmond 79

9 North Melbourne Jack Ziebell North Melbourne 83

10 Adelaide Phil Davis GWS 54

from footywire.

Edit: sorry table didn't make it. Number at end games played.

Edited April 28, 2014 by ManDee

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

I would rather have had Hill, Hurley, Yarran, Rich or Ziebell

[ManDee 7,093]

I would rather have had Hill, Hurley, Yarran, Rich or Ziebell

No real superstar among them compared to 2001

1 Hawthorn Luke Hodge Hawthorn 233

2 St Kilda Luke Ball Collingwood 212

3 West Coast Chris Judd Carlton 260 1

4 Fremantle Graham Polak 111 1

5 St Kilda Xavier Clarke 106 1

6 West Coast Ashley Sampi 78 1

7 North Melbourne David Hale Hawthorn 203 1

8 Geelong Jimmy Bartel Geelong 255 1

9 Melbourne Luke Molan 0 1

10 Western Bulldogs Sam Power

Edited April 28, 2014 by ManDee

[old dee 23,118]

Watts is finished as a player, he just doesn't show the desire to compete and if he was sent back to Casey he would just prolong the inevitable.

He could cruise back there, do a bit of fancy stuff here and there and not even get his hair messed up. No point unless he is prepared to do what's required of a modern day footballer and that's hard running, hard tackling and a real commitment for the ball and the team.

Whilst I didn't abuse him on Saturday night, I did yell out in frustration, many times, that he should at least run to the contest and not just jog along and that he should at least look like he was interested. I doubt I've seen a worse game played by any footballer in my time watching the game and by that I mean the real lack of any appetite for the contest; I've seen players given a bath many times but I've never seen one simply not try, or give up.

The stuff he puts out there every week can have a detrimental on the rest of the group and we just don't need that anymore.

He's copped more shyte from the fans, both ours and others, than almost any footballer I've ever come across in my time and I wonder if the expectation and abuse has just destroyed him.

I understand your position Robbie I have similar feelings.

RE the last line is it the chicken or the egg?

I actually think he has been given a lot of time to come good, the vast majority of Dees supporters have been very patient with him.

He is into his sixth year and has changed little since game one.

My frustration and I suspect many others is because we know he has the skill set but just seems to have no idea how to apply himself on game day.

I wish I had been blessed with half his skill level.

[Machsy 2,858]

The difference between APS Schoolboy Football & TAC comp.

Attitude.

Watts should never have been pick 1. He hadn't been tested. Same could be said for $cully.

Attitude not right.

Niether have progressed from year 1.

Your posts are hilarious!

Keep posting, please.

Do you even notice when you so blatantly contradict yourself..?

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

Not a good draft 2008 but most rated Watts in best 2.

Nic Nat 10 disposals (60% eff) 1 mark 14 hit outs last week has been hopeless.

Watts 15 (60%) 3 marks

Both seem to have the little boy lost syndrome and don't know what to do or where to go.

1 1 Melbourne Jack Watts Melbourne 79

2 West Coast Nicholas Naitanui West Coast 94

3 Fremantle Stephen Hill Fremantle 114

4 Port Adelaide Hamish Hartlett Port Adelaide 74

5 Essendon Michael Hurley Essendon 85

6 Carlton Christopher Yarran Carlton 90

7 Brisbane Daniel Rich Brisbane 101

8 Richmond Tyrone Vickery Richmond 79

9 North Melbourne Jack Ziebell North Melbourne 83

10 Adelaide Phil Davis GWS 54

from footywire.

Edit: sorry table didn't make it. Number at end games played.

Yes i know how the experts rated him. They were wrong and so was the club.

Attitude was not included in the summary.

$cully was the same. Great runner not much else with an aloof attitude.

Both he and Watts were not the best talent in 2008-09. I saw Watts kill in APS granted, but he had no challengers.

This is why we are in such a mess.

Cue previous CEO picture on large dartboard....

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

Your posts are hilarious!

Keep posting, please.

Do you even notice when you so blatantly contradict yourself..?

Care what you think Jose?

[beelzebub 22,542]

There's not much more toxic a paradigm as affects a team than a player that effectively becomes invisible to the rest of the team.

In many respects we play with 17 afield when jackie is out there.

Why ? He likes playing hot potato, he avoids a pack more than a wowser come shout time and no one really wants to kick it to him.

Thats pretty bad. Means oppositions can afford to gang up on someone else because NO ONE rates this guy.

I dont like writing this but what else can one surmise

[KingDingAling 3,656]

I would rather have had Hill, Hurley, Yarran, Rich or Ziebell

I would rather have Hartlett, he buys and sells that lot.

Hamish was my pick in under 18's. I like Rich, but thought Harlett had a more complete and rounded game.

Yarran and Ziebell have achieved no more than Watts - not sure I'd take them over Watts even now.

I'd take Hurley over Watts, but only on sheer intent, not on performance. Hurley does show clear intent to get the football though, I like that aggression.

Hill was a speculative pick by Fremantle, I don't really factor him in as a miss, he was one of my favs - but there were too many variables leading into the draft.

Hill went from a 10-15 pick to pick 3, it was a risky pick at a time where MFC couldn't really afford to take a risk.

[ManDee 7,093]

Yes i know how the experts rated him. They were wrong and so was the club.

Attitude was not included in the summary.

$cully was the same. Great runner not much else with an aloof attitude.

Both he and Watts were not the best talent in 2008-09. I saw Watts kill in APS granted, but he had no challengers.

This is why we are in such a mess.

Cue previous CEO picture on large dartboard....

You know this as fact. I think you are wrong.

[old dee 23,118]

You know this as fact. I think you are wrong.

If it was then we seriously missed the signs with quite a few.

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

You know this as fact. I think you are wrong.

i would hope i wouldn't be. Makes their drafting even worse!!

[ManDee 7,093]

i would hope i wouldn't be. Makes their drafting even worse!!

Players like Dustin Martin were overlooked - Bad attitude. Jack Darling -Bad attitude. Daniel Rich - ?? attitude. It happens all the time, no club is going to say "we didn't pick XYZ because he is a tossr or is a lazy B" they just slip down the list until they reach their opportunity cost.

A nice kid with skill like Jack Watts looks like a gem, just toughen him up and let him go. Doesn't mean that they didn't check his attitude. Still a work in progress IMO.

Edit :- Can't say tossr.

Edited April 28, 2014 by ManDee

[dee-luded 2,958]

I would rather have Hartlett, he buys and sells that lot.

Hamish was my pick in under 18's. I like Rich, but thought Harlett had a more complete and rounded game.

Yarran and Ziebell have achieved no more than Watts - not sure I'd take them over Watts even now.

I'd take Hurley over Watts, but only on sheer intent, not on performance. Hurley does show clear intent to get the football though, I like that aggression.

Hill was a speculative pick by Fremantle, I don't really factor him in as a miss, he was one of my favs - but there were too many variables leading into the draft.

Hill went from a 10-15 pick to pick 3, it was a risky pick at a time where MFC couldn't really afford to take a risk.

Oh I would, either of them. Wattsy might come good, but it would be the master stroke of all coaching times to resurrect his career @ Melbourne; at least imo.

I think Yarran is very redeemable.

Hartlett was well touted as a skilled running mid who was a bit too outside, & may take a while to mature. well he's not taken quite as long as Nik-Nat who arrived early, but has plateau'd, and JackW to this point, has not matured.

Ziebell I think will make a top player, strong body. sometime I have the opinion that some strong bodied players have trouble with the endurance side of todays game, getting stress/fatigue type injuries, etc. I reckon when his body settles down he'll be a beaut.

[Demon Dynasty 16,147]

Guys i think half the problem here is a list that is so lacking in depth. It means out of form or NQR players, like Watts, aren't replaced by obvious talent/effort players at Casey who are pushing up.

I think if that were the case we wouldn't be too worried. I realise Watts is a No.1 draftee but in a club with a much deeper list, he would be just another young developing player who may or may not make it down at Casey level over the next year or so and just maybe push his way into a very solid senior team (pushing a very good player out IF he shows super promise rather than just "ok" form).

Part of the problem lies in our history of poor recruiting/development so far. If we fix this we solve the issue of players continuing to get a guernsey when they clearly aren't up to it yet or are in poor form. This applies to Watts or anyone who isn't a proven senior AFL level player already with years of experience/quality results and/or a champion of the club.

With regard to Watt's effort on the weekend in particular, if Roosy TRULY believes that was acceptable and he deserves a follow up game, then Mr Roos i hate to say it, but we are on a very fast train to nowhere.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[dee-luded 2,958]

Guys i think half the problem here is a list that is so lacking in depth. It means out of form or NQR players, like Watts, aren't replaced by obvious talent/effort players at Casey who are pushing up.

I think if that were the case we wouldn't be too worried. I realise Watts is a No.1 draftee but in a club with a much deeper list, he would be just another young developing player who may or may not make it down at Casey level over the next year or so and just maybe push his way into a very solid senior team (pushing a very good player out IF he shows super promise rather than just "ok" form).

Part of the problem lies in our history of poor recruiting/development so far. If we fix this we solve the issue of players continuing to get a guernsey when they clearly aren't up to it yet or are in poor form. This applies to Watts or anyone who isn't a proven senior AFL level player already with years of experience/quality results and/or a champion of the club.

With regard to Watt's effort on the weekend in particular, if Roosy TRULY believes that was acceptable and he deserves a follow up game, then Mr Roos i hate to say it, but we are on a very fast train to nowhere.

great post rusty. we have been looking for a footy god to release us, since the days of Diamond Jim Tilbrook, since the club run by smart cleancut business types in suits, cut-down our real Footy Saviour, & with him the golden ways to prosperity.

its these sterile ways that need the chop, to move forward.

[Demon Dynasty 16,147]

great post rusty. we have been looking for a footy god to release us, since the days of Diamond Jim Tilbrook, since the club run by smart cleancut business types in suits, cut-down our real Footy Saviour, & with him the golden ways to prosperity.

its these sterile ways that need the chop, to move forward.

Ha...thx Dee. Diamond Jim. Im pretty sure i saw all 4 games lol or thereabouts.. The only memories i recall about Jim was he was built like a brick shyte house, could kick massive torps and his on field performance was about 10 rungs below the massive hype surrounding his pending arrival.

And as for a footy god....hoping it will be Mr Roos who finally jolts this place out of its 7 year apathy. He'll need to find a champion or 2 (maybe more) in the draft to make it happen though me thinks. Fingers crossed that Hulk will be one of these if we can get him fixed.

[ManDee 7,093]

Ha...thx Dee. Diamond Jim. Im pretty sure i saw all 4 games lol or thereabouts.. The only memories i recall about Jim was he was built like a brick shyte house, could kick massive torps and his on field performance was about 10 rungs below the massive hype surrounding his pending arrival.

And as for a footy god....hoping it will be Mr Roos who finally jolts this place out of its 7 year apathy. He'll need to find a champion or 2 (maybe more) in the draft to make it happen though me thinks. Fingers crossed that Hulk will be one of these if we can get him fixed.

Diamond Jim was certainly built like that triple brick outhouse you referred to. He unfortunately had a similar dislike of contact to our Mr Watts.

I think we should ease up on Watts, if Roos says he is OK that should be enough, he alone knows what he wants Jack to do.

[old dee 23,118]

Ha...thx Dee. Diamond Jim. Im pretty sure i saw all 4 games lol or thereabouts.. The only memories i recall about Jim was he was built like a brick shyte house, could kick massive torps and his on field performance was about 10 rungs below the massive hype surrounding his pending arrival.

And as for a footy god....hoping it will be Mr Roos who finally jolts this place out of its 7 year apathy. He'll need to find a champion or 2 (maybe more) in the draft to make it happen though me thinks. Fingers crossed that Hulk will be one of these if we can get him fixed.

RN I have said this before about DJ but here goes again.

I have a good friend who was at the MFC as a player when DJ arrived, every player on the roster knew he was getting paid 5 times more than the better players and 10 times more than the average player.

The majority simple held the attitude that if he is that good let him get the bloody ball himself.

Now while he was not as good as he was cracked up to be the way the whole thing was handled by the administration was a classic case of what not to do.

DJ was doomed before his first game.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Ha...thx Dee. Diamond Jim. Im pretty sure i saw all 4 games lol or thereabouts.. The only memories i recall about Jim was he was built like a brick shyte house, could kick massive torps and his on field performance was about 10 rungs below the massive hype surrounding his pending arrival.

And as for a footy god....hoping it will be Mr Roos who finally jolts this place out of its 7 year apathy. He'll need to find a champion or 2 (maybe more) in the draft to make it happen though me thinks. Fingers crossed that Hulk will be one of these if we can get him fixed.

the fault of the Diamond Jim theory, or the Brad Miller tough guy theory, or Big Carl, is they are each only one human being. trying to do the tough work of 20.

Checker & Smithy had a team full of tough hard competitors, running rough across the paddock, all sharing the load. and a grandstand full of supporters accepting nothing less than the whole team fighting out the game.

since the 70's we've had progressively more boy next door types playing in Red & Blue.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Diamond Jim was certainly built like that triple brick outhouse you referred to. He unfortunately had a similar dislike of contact to our Mr Watts.

I think we should ease up on Watts, if Roos says he is OK that should be enough, he alone knows what he wants Jack to do.

well goodes doesn't like throwing his weight around, so Roosy should hopefully get thru to Jack to start to contest the ball both ways.

[jazza 1,323]

. He unfortunately had a similar dislike of contact to our Mr Watts.

I think we should ease up on Watts, if Roos says he is OK that should be enough, he alone knows what he wants Jack to do.

ok,on a personal note,its obvious i dont think this bloke will make enough contribution to our club,but to be equal and fair.

after 70 games?

how many GOOD games do you think JW owes us?

how long will it take to get a proper season out of jack?

weighed against injury,new players and team balance in the future,is this achievable?

if you think these goals are achievable how long do we continue along the current theme of his form?

and when does it end for us and jack?

whats your breaking point on this player?

this year?

next year?

2016?

Edited April 29, 2014 by jazza