Post match discussion

[Moonshadow 17,676]

How many were effective tackles and how many were hugs?

Hugs! I like that description. very apt.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

We need to be serious about building the right culture and setting the trademarks of the team. Watts cannot play until he demonstrates that he is willing to do what every single league footballer is expected of them.

agree 1000%

[chookrat 4,268]

I generally agree that people are far too harsh on Watts and often see what they want to see with him. Many fail to recognise his good work, his running and positioning, his frequent leads that are not honoured, and his clean disposal.

However, today there were a number of incidents in which Watts just didn't go hard enough. You do not need to be Nathan Jones or Daniel Cross to be able to go hard for a tackle or throw your body on the ball, and too many times today Watts didn't appear to want the ball enough. It's a consistent problem with him, one that I believe he's moving away from. Today was a regression in that regard.

There was an instance in the 4th where Watts caught a player and instead of tackling he cuddled the guy who was able to dispose if the ball and they scored. A good tackle would have caught he player holding the ball and provided us a run thriugh the midfield. Another instance in the 4th Watts was on the wing chasing the ball and got pushed off it by a pigmy. Tackling doesnt seem to come natural to Jack and if he can develop a contesed aspect to his game I think he will be excellent.

We have seen this in bursts, e.g. Round 1 v St Kilda, his bodywork v Jobe Watson a couple of years ago but he needs to bring his to every game and every contest.

We've seen him provide a

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

instead of tackling he cuddled the guy

yes, thank you, i have been looking for a way to describe it, he puts his arms over him in a way that is supposed to convince everyone that he is doing what he is supposed to be doing but in reality he is letting his opponent stroll away with it

FMD if I know why a bloke would allow such BS pathetic weakness to become part of who he is, he has 78 games and 23 years under his belt. Send him to the 2's please roosy

[John Crow Batty 8,878]

I thought we played an excellent second half. Saw many positives. Still a lot of work to get 4 quarter consistency. Watts is looking more and more like Cale Morton. Not a forward or defender. Only hope for him is as a running outside player. We need Garland back to solidify the defence. Midfield grunt is still lacking.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Hard to find positives in relation to Watts but I will say he makes space and provides leads which are very rarely honored, and when they are the ball is never kicked to a position which favors him. Just a passing observation.

Make space that is a joke surely.

The opposition treats him with total contempt, and leave him on his own.

They know his team mates will not try and kick the ball to him, because he wont have a go at trying to mark, or if they do and he doesn't, he wont try and get the ball back.

You think McKenzie was like playing one man short, add watts and you have a fairly good start why we got done.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

JW had a shocker, but he'll bounce back. The boy finds time and space and he's still trying to find his niche with the new coach.

Let's look at the real problems....rubbish around stoppages, lack of gut running (Jonesy, none of this applies to you) lack of composure in our back six and slow ball movement.

Let's get some decent players on the park.

Over to you, PR.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

I'd like to highlight Viney's attempt to stop Ablett. He was clinging to him like a baby monkey, but Ablett just took it and got the ball away anyway. Awesome commitment from Viney and amazing strength and composure from the best in the business.

A few posts here have said Viney got 0 tackles today yet this example seems to contradict that?

[Demon Jack 6,930]

Really ugly and scrappy game today but still an improvement. We put ourselves in a winning position in the final quarter after Jones' goal which then instantly vanished after some atrocious umpiring.

Some notes

- With Dawes and Chip forward, Howe looks far more dangerous in attack. Even though he blew a couple of easy shots, he looked far more involved

- N.Jones and Viney are the catalyst for what will hopefully be a great midfield.

- McDonald wasn't as bad as people say he was. Created good run out of defence at times and spoiled well. Met his match today against Lynch

- Yeah....Watts was disappointing.

- Gold Coast always seemed to dominate the stoppages.

- Tackling was bad....really bad

- Dawes and Chip will be a good forward combo but both missed their chances to have 5-7 goals between them

- Garland will be a welcome return when he comes back (hopefully next Saturday). Will boost the defence with Chip in attack.

- JKH is the small forward we've been looking for. Will be exciting to watch in the coming years (if not months!).

- N.Jones is every bit of a leader as Selwood and Hodge. That goal was inspirational when the team needed it.

[Axis of Bob 11,840]

Make space that is a joke surely.

The opposition treats him with total contempt, and leave him on his own.

That is rubbish. Any team that leaves Watts alone will know that they'll be cut apart.

The problem is how he goes when he is not being left alone.

I think that his problems lie mainly in his lack of strength. As a tall, he is expected to bully midfielders. Unfortunately he does not have the physical strength to do so and this frustrates everyone. Since they have an assumption that he is stronger/as strong as his opponent, they assume his inability to win the contest is due to a lack of application.

[rjay 25,063]

Arguably we missed as many easy shots as they did so inaccuracy wasn't all one way. We matched them for most of the game and after about 5 minutes they were 9 points ahead of us and won by 8.

They are touted by the media as an up and coming team, we are touted as perennial losers; they are predicted to make the 8 we are predicted to win the spoon.

No one was happy about what happened today and I must confess to turning the game off at half time in disgust, but it was better than last year when they looked so much better than us and I know we are better than we looked today.

We didn't really 'Robbie' and the scoreline flattered us but at least we kept at it and didn't get blown away.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

That is rubbish. Any team that leaves Watts alone will know that they'll be cut apart.

The problem is how he goes when he is not being left alone.

I think that his problems lie mainly in his lack of strength. As a tall, he is expected to bully midfielders. Unfortunately he does not have the physical strength to do so and this frustrates everyone. Since they have an assumption that he is stronger/as strong as his opponent, they assume his inability to win the contest is due to a lack of application.

When does this "cutting apart happen?" 6 years and we are still waiting for his "breakout game."

[rjay 25,063]

A few posts here have said Viney got 0 tackles today yet this example seems to contradict that?

Be interesting to know what they rate as a tackle, must only be effective tackles. Jack sure had a good ride on Gary but he got the ball away to a teammate non the less.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

We didn't really 'Robbie' and the scoreline flattered us but at least we kept at it and didn't get blown away.

No, Robbie's right. We matched it, on the scoreboard and everywhere else, for most parts of the game.

We were insipid in the second quarter and that was largely the reason we lost. But for the remainder of the game the teams were level.

[SaberFang 7,151]

Dawes is absolutely filthy on himself on the official website:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2014-04-20/rd-5-chris-dawes-interview

Says he blew a lot of his chances.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

When does this "cutting apart happen?" 6 years and we are still waiting for his "breakout game."

Here's another problem with how people perceive Watts - we're waiting for a 'breakout game'.

Why does he have to leap into stardom for people to accept him?

Even if he had this 'breakout game' this weekend, that would only serve to let those with anti-Watts bias jump on him every future game he did not live up to that 'breakout game', such is the way people want to view him. With some, he just will never be able to win.

Edited April 20, 2014 by titan_uranus

[Alcho Dee 269]

Pretty disappointed in today's efforts.

Jack Watts.

He looked like he had just woken up 10 minutes before he went out onto the ground, and he played like he was half asleep. He did 2 or 3 good things, but the amount of times where he let us down outwayed them. When he made a lead today, he didn't demand the ball, he didn't want it. When at a stoppage he just stands there on his own waving his hands around, instead of picking up an opponent. His defensive work it well below Roos' standards. He should have been subbed instead of Tyson.

Umpiring was so bad, I watched the game on TV but by the sound of our supporters it was terrible, but I loved how vocal our supporters were.

Dean Terlich, turnovers and bad decision making will cost you your position in the team, Clisby is waiting.

Jordie Mckenzie, some terrible free kicks against and hate seeing him waving his arms around everywhere, when the ball lands in his lap he just gets tackled and he could learn a lot from Crowley how to get the footy, not just tackling only.

I think our defenders had a tough day because of the GC midfielders, I have heard people say how bad Georgiou was but he did ok.

Nathan Jones, Cross and Viney again had great games, bit our outside midfielders struggled.

We were rattled by the quality of their midfielders.

[McQueen 17,867]

Hilarious that we were all singing Watts praise in the Garry Lyon FC thread only this past week. Now wer're bagging the shizen out of him for today's game.

He's got the skills, but he's so soft at the contest it's becoming embarrassing.

Give him one more seniors game to prove us wrong or back to Casey.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Dawes is absolutely filthy on himself on the official website:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2014-04-20/rd-5-chris-dawes-interview

Says he blew a lot of his chances.

Not his fault for the loss, but he did.

[Axis of Bob 11,840]

When does this "cutting apart happen?" 6 years and we are still waiting for his "breakout game."

You are doing yourself a disservice if you think that Watts doesn't damage the opposition when he has the footy.

[rjay 25,063]

That is rubbish. Any team that leaves Watts alone will know that they'll be cut apart.

The problem is how he goes when he is not being left alone.

I think that his problems lie mainly in his lack of strength. As a tall, he is expected to bully midfielders. Unfortunately he does not have the physical strength to do so and this frustrates everyone. Since they have an assumption that he is stronger/as strong as his opponent, they assume his inability to win the contest is due to a lack of application.

That appears to be right but I wonder if he plays within himself too much. He is touted as having real pace but we've rarely seen it, at one time today he chased an opponent, not sure who or when but there was a real burst of pace from him, he was lightning... but the rest of the game next to nothing.

I don't think he gets the idea of going the extra mile. I hope he learns though.

[rjay 25,063]

No, Robbie's right. We matched it, on the scoreboard and everywhere else, for most parts of the game.

We were insipid in the second quarter and that was largely the reason we lost. But for the remainder of the game the teams were level.

I thought they controlled the game most of the day.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

You are doing yourself a disservice if you think that Watts doesn't damage the opposition when he has the footy.

mate, when he has the footy he is generally awesome. it is just getting the bloody thing he struggles with. Generally if it isn't handed to him on a platter, or if it doesn't fall in his lap, or if one of his stupid acts for a free kick that would rival Home and Away for poor acting doesn't work then he just doesn't get it the footy.

he is breaking my football heart and making it really hard to keep standing up for him like i have for 6 [censored] years now.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I never said that the fact that others didn't lay a tackle made Watts' efforts better.

What I said, which you are confirming, is that lots of people on here are blinded in their hatred for Watts and fail to recognise that he's not the only one out there who is playing poorly in our losses. From the way some talk about him you'd think he was single-handedly losing games for us.

If those are registering as tackles in Champion Data's books, then doesn't that make the others who recorded 0 tackles even worse?

Again, I'm not defending Watts' game, as he was virtually indefensible today in his effort. But he was not the only one who did not work hard enough, as the statistics show.

So you think it's OK that Jetta, Terlich and Grimes, despite being small defenders, did not lay a tackle? You think it's OK that Spencer and Viney, being in the majority of the game's stoppages, did not lay a tackle?

Obviously Viney and Grimes had good games today in totality, but the fact that they didn't lay a single tackle all day speaks volumes of why we lost. At least Watts contributed in that regard.

What delusions am I suffering from?

I'd argue that if you think Watts is the only sub-standard player in our side, then that's delusional.

I'm sure champion data would offer an "effective" tackle count somewhere Titan. This is the number we really need to see as a simple "tackle" stat really tells us only that the player layed some kind of tackle. Agree, laying no tackles is a pretty damning stat regardless though.

43 in total this week vs 84 last week. Horrible result and about 23 below the league average and about the same below our own too!

No way you will win many games with those numbers. Turnovers are a massive part of scoring now, especially turnovers through the middle and back half. And if you're tackling is down almost 50% then you're really relying on your opponent to make a hec of alot of unforced errors. Good luck with that.

Most of our backline play was like watching scared rabbits in the headlights in that first half as well. The lack of risk taking, run and carry and quick ball movement by foot through traffic in that back half was a massive step backwards this week for mine and part of why we lost the match today.

As to why Dunny kept on persisting with the outlet or down the line kick to the right hand pocket or flank i'm at a loss. The number of times i saw Dawes 1 on 1 against Warnock in the middle of the ground and Dunn just ignored going there. Probably under team instruction, but hey, rules were meant to be broken at times. It was an obvious change up for mine and Dunn just refused to even consider it. We were way too predictable and only when the game was lost did Dunn finally decide to take a risk and roost a torp down the middle, which if my memory serves me well, may have resulted in a last minute goal lol. Alas too little....too late. If something isn't working over and over and the ball just keeps coming back, why the hec do we keep persisting with it? I'm not sure who the designated kicker should be. The highest effective disposal players in the back half are presently Pedo (when he's not playing forward...and i wouldn't play him forward) and Jetta who's just come back in and still finding his feet at AFL level.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Rusty Nails

[Alcho Dee 269]

You are doing yourself a disservice if you think that Watts doesn't damage the opposition when he has the footy.

DID YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THE GAME TODAY??

WATTS WAS F U C K I N G HOPELESS!

SOFT!

WHY DO WE GET THESE WANKERS WHO WANT TO STICK UP FOR HIM.

IF I PLAYED LIKE THAT I WOULD FEEL LIKE I LET THE TEAM DOWN.