One of the best posts I have read on here in quite a while.

You are dead right. While Jack does need to harden up and get more competitive, the answer in doing so mightn't be the suburban footy/1980's VFL way of giving a tongue lashing. I remember reading, in of all places Max Walker's biography, of how Norm Smith got some form out of him. One night he was called to Norm's office, who was sitting on a pile of footy jumpers gently tossing a footy from hand to hand, Maxy had heard of his propensity for fearful sprays and thought his time had come. Norm then simply asked him if he wanted to play seniors on the weekend and took him around for dinner at his home. Checker Hughes after that incident then summed up the coaching staff's opinion on Max 'You aren't a good player or a bad player. You are a confidence player. Think about that son.' Maxy then went on to play a pretty decent game against the Roos the next week.

While Big Max wasn't much of a footballer (we knew where his talents lie; cricket and playing the Wired World of Sports theme on a handkerchief), it does show how sometime the carrot does work besides the stick.

That being said, the stick may need to come out at some stage with Jack. As for now, he was probably one of the players in mind when Roos said the playing list needed a cuddle.

Good points here - I was livid at JW's lack of intent yesterday but I think so much of his performance is to do with his self belief and focus. Against St Kilda he showed what he is capable of, displaying intent and focus. Yesterday he looked lost and you could almost see him trying to will himself to go when it was his turn only to put in a token looking effort.

Roos has the whole season to check out our list and I think guys like Nev, Evans, McKenzie deserve a string of at least 4-5 games to prove their spot. Watts is a required player and I'd rather set him the challenge to respond next week v Sydney.

Good points here - I was livid at JW's lack of intent yesterday but I think so much of his performance is to do with his self belief and focus. Against St Kilda he showed what he is capable of, displaying intent and focus. Yesterday he looked lost and you could almost see him trying to will himself to go when it was his turn only to put in a token looking effort.

Roos has the whole season to check out our list and I think guys like Nev, Evans, McKenzie deserve a string of at least 4-5 games to prove their spot. Watts is a required player and I'd rather set him the challenge to respond next week v Sydney.

trouble is for the last 5 years all weve heard is.

needs help from mates.

needs to outside to best use the footy.

needs to play down back.

needs to play forward.

needs to play wing.

on the ball.

needs cuddling

needs a rocket up his clacker.

needs time.

needs gametime.

needs contract.

needs time off.

needs love.

needs a new coach.

needs to shave beard.

needs to grow beard.

needs to grow moustache.

needs to shave off moustache.

needs another preseason.

every time we lose,people say somebody else was worse,somebody else didnt do this didnt do that.

unfortunately for JW its all about...........

WHAT WE NEED

As bad as Watts was he has still been better than Tyson or Vince have the last two weeks, Jordie was also terrible yesterday,so you cant really blame our woes on him, its a collective effort.

Roos conceded taking Tyson off was a mistake.

All of Jack Watts problems exist between his ears ( though some might suggest within his chest )

All of Jack Watts problems exist between his ears ( though some might suggest within his chest )

every week i see.

dunn=not very good ,gets all the krap jobs,never whinges and actually no matter how bad it is,always holds his head high,has a GO

tommy mac=aint there yet,gets horrible job and holds his head high and has a GO.

pedders=gets rotten jobs,holds his head up and has a GO.

grimes=aint much good,gets tough jobs,holds his head up.leaves the ground with pride.

n jones=aint very good,trained his arse off and became better,never gives up and has a GO.

JW,had every chance and im sick of the namby pamby,we love jack,give him a chance,he tries,hes playing in a bottom team.pppffffttt absolute rubbish,lack of heart,and you cant put gutz into cowards.

at every club ive played,there are times where you are injured,out of form,not good enough,this is something that happens australia wide on a weekly basis.for these reasons you get DROPPED.after every effort by the coach to get you into form in senoirs.

for the last 3 years,frawley,sylvia,morton and watts have bludged off this club,unfortunately theirs a new coach in town and im hoping this is currently being sorted out and acted upon,for our future.

thanks,jones,tmac,dunn and pedders for having some pride in being undermanned and fighting for your place in the team.

Youd think the boys would be sick of losing....that effort in the second quarter was putrid.

A lot of venting on here, i'm sick of losing too. I think most of us pre-season would have liked to see the Dees in games longer, and the odd upset here and there. So far this is how the season is panning out (taking away the west coast game).

We are coming from a long way back, we have to remember this. The fact I was still getting excited about winning a game in the last quarter was good. Sad but true.

#DeesLife

The problem with having a considered and balanced opinion, especially in the wake of a loss, is that other's rage will lead them to misinterperate it.

Agree with your points, especially the 'knowing how' in relation to work rate. I wonder if this also the case for him with the physical stuff. There's always been a lack of 'want' in Jack's game and it's the coaches job to find out why and rectify it. For those that think stringing him up in the city centre for 100 lashes is the answer, it isn't, Neeld tried that and it didn't work. Hopefully there is another way.

Everything's been tried it's not up to the coaches anymore it's up to Jack. He can sort it out at Casey and come back once he has otherwise his career will be over before it begins.

The one clear thing that was evident from yesterday was that if you feed a new club enough talent at the expense of others they cannot help but succeed and weaker clubs cannot help but remain somewhat stranded. And let's not forget that, on top of the unprecedented draft concessions, they were also able to pay for the greatest player (possibly) of our generation.

For this reason alone, I wish Gold Coast nothing but ill will and if that makes me a bitter prack then so be it.

Gotta love iPhones and demonland.

I am cooking a BBQ, reading demonland on my iPhone while having a rum

All I need now is for the team to win and my life is complete!

I've loved and always defended Jack Watts talents, but:

I don't know, but is Jack still living with his parents? Does anyone remember the interview with Jacks mum just after he was drafted? Please correct if I'm wrong but I recall her saying things like, "Don't worry, Jack's got his head screwed on correctly, he knows it's only a game of football," she said depreciatingly. She seemed as lovely a mum as anyone could possibly have, but her attitude towards the game seemed appropriate for someone playing school footy, who's going on to a serious career later (she'd mean non-football career as nothing football would be serious enough to risk injury over). I've meet plenty of Brighton Grammar type mothers like that (I was at Scotch) and can imagine her saying, "Now don't you get hurt out there Jack, it's not worth it," and Jack, being a good boy would agree.

Jack needs to share a home with some intelligent but tough footballers. Preferably lighter weight like himself. He should move in to the Viney household for awhile!! ..to have some of their urgency rub off on him, learn more about how to navigate physically tough scenarios while still avoiding injury yet pressuring/intimidating the opposition. Also to learn that this IS his serious job, can pay well and lead to post playing jobs also.

For all you people who bang on about how effective McKenzie is turn on your tv's and watch a KID called Langford run around.

I've meet plenty of Brighton Grammar type mothers like that (I was at Scotch) and can imagine her saying, "Now don't you get hurt out there Jack, it's not worth it," and Jack, being a good boy would agree.

I really don't think this is about schools or certain schools producing harder [or softer] footballers. Dawes was also a product of Brighton Grammar [ar was also Hunt and last year's No. 2 draft pick] and I fail to see a common 'Brighton Grammar type'!

I've meet plenty of Brighton Grammar type mothers like that (I was at Scotch) and can imagine her saying, "Now don't you get hurt out there Jack, it's not worth it," and Jack, being a good boy would agree.

I really don't think this is about schools or certain schools producing harder [or softer] footballers. Dawes was also a product of Brighton Grammar [ar was also Hunt and last year's No. 2 draft pick] and I fail to see a common 'Brighton Grammar type'!

I agree with you CDDees, but that was 100% NOT my point at all and I shouldn't have mentioned the school because it's triggered a reflex. Everything else written I did mean though. The values at home are very, very influential and specifically I found Jacks mothers interview alarming. She seemed a lovely mum, but not one to encourage physically tough play from Jack at all, nor to believe footy's a serious career.

I've loved and always defended Jack Watts talents, but:

I don't know, but is Jack still living with his parents? Does anyone remember the interview with Jacks mum just after he was drafted? Please correct if I'm wrong but I recall her saying things like, "Don't worry, Jack's got his head screwed on correctly, he knows it's only a game of football," she said depreciatingly. She seemed as lovely a mum as anyone could possibly have, but her attitude towards the game seemed appropriate for someone playing school footy, who's going on to a serious career later (she'd mean non-football career as nothing football would be serious enough to risk injury over). I've meet plenty of Brighton Grammar type mothers like that (I was at Scotch) and can imagine her saying, "Now don't you get hurt out there Jack, it's not worth it," and Jack, being a good boy would agree.

Jack needs to share a home with some intelligent but tough footballers. Preferably lighter weight like himself. He should move in to the Viney household for awhile!! ..to have some of their urgency rub off on him, learn more about how to navigate physically tough scenarios while still avoiding injury yet pressuring/intimidating the opposition. Also to learn that this IS his serious job, can pay well and lead to post playing jobs also.

I've loved and always defended Jack Watts talents, but:

I don't know, but is Jack still living with his parents? Does anyone remember the interview with Jacks mum just after he was drafted? Please correct if I'm wrong but I recall her saying things like, "Don't worry, Jack's got his head screwed on correctly, he knows it's only a game of football," she said depreciatingly. She seemed as lovely a mum as anyone could possibly have, but her attitude towards the game seemed appropriate for someone playing school footy, who's going on to a serious career later (she'd mean non-football career as nothing football would be serious enough to risk injury over). I've meet plenty of Brighton Grammar type mothers like that (I was at Scotch) and can imagine her saying, "Now don't you get hurt out there Jack, it's not worth it," and Jack, being a good boy would agree.

Jack needs to share a home with some intelligent but tough footballers. Preferably lighter weight like himself. He should move in to the Viney household for awhile!! ..to have some of their urgency rub off on him, learn more about how to navigate physically tough scenarios while still avoiding injury yet pressuring/intimidating the opposition. Also to learn that this IS his serious job, can pay well and lead to post playing jobs also.

maybe do a preseason in Wolf Creek

It's not about Watts' skill, it's all about effort. I like Watts but he is an embarrassment to our football club most of the time. A former number 1 draft pick who's been in the system for 6-7 years should be a lot better than he is. He lopes around with half efforts.

It's not about Mckenzies effort it's about his skill. Combine this with Terlich, Jetta, Bail, Spencer who all put consistent unnecessary pressure on teammates with their disgraceful (for afl) standard disposal.

It really is time for some people to lift their standards & expectations.

Anyone who defends Watts' game but watched it on TV needs to understand that they would have missed 90% of his soft, lazy and weak efforts around the ground.

Most of if happened off the ball so unless you were at the game, please understand this.

I was there, and I saw them - as hard as they were to watch - I don't think you get a full picture from the TV either.

But it cuts both ways, Watts has a good workrate and gets to more contests.

The way he 'affects' most of them isn't good enough. It just isn't. But he will trust his teammate to win the footy and get it to him and that is something. We are like moths to a flame when around the footy, and other clubs have 'release' players and 'outlets' and they destroy us. Watts' skills are suited to that as we all know.

It's the lack of intensity when about to get the footy in contest with another that is frustrating and I am looking at Roos to fix this.

Obviously I don't want all of these gone this week but the following aren't deserving of AFL football at THIS point in time: Bail, Evans, Spencer, Terlich, Jetta. McKenzie, M Jones and Pederson have week reprieves after previous good weeks but also need monitoring.

I think Bail is doing enough and Spencer has no replacement, but the rest are on the money. Jones and Pedersen are (sadly) consistently in our best 7-8 players - they're going nowhere.

Pedo was far more effective in the ruck then Spencer was the whole game. Bring in the Russian!

First time I've been in front of a computer since the game, so apologies for the late post.

I'll start off by saying what an absolute champion Jones is. He has to be one of the most underrated players in the league, if not the most. His pass between 2 opposition players to JKH and his goal in the final quarter were brilliant. I think he's taken his game to another level, the captaincy role seems to sit well with him and he taken the responsibility to try and lift the team at various stages throughout games, it's just a shame that there doesn't seem to be anyone to go with him. Heart and soul player, inspirational captain, throw any of those kind of cliches at him and it works. There should be a few players that are embarrassed to share the same guernsey.

Dawes is another huge positive. A true forward that can influence a game without needing a lot of possessions. I'd like to see him take a few training sessions and teach our team the principles of kicking to advantage.

JKH didn't seem to have a lot of it, but made the most of his opportunities. I'd expect to see improvement over time where he'll impact the game more regularly.

Howe was much better in the forward line, I hope he stays there and the defender experiment is over.

Generally we've got a team of battlers, nowhere near skillful, but players that will generally give effort. I see a lot of these players being just fill ins until we get some quality back or some future talent is brought in. An unfortunate reality.

Finally on the "laconic" Watts, I have simpathy for him. There was someone sitting in front of me whose only comments seem to be directed towards Watts. I'm sure he wasn't the only one that was overly critical of him, but Watts didn't pick himself, he didn't ask for the burden of being a Dees high draft pick, so from that regard I think he cops more than his fair share. Having said that, he frustrates the hell out of me. His talent is unquestionable, he's a very clever player. But we are in the era of contested footy and players need to be more than just clever players. He seems to play more like a small forward, trying to push his opponent under the ball so he can run on to the ball etc. He needs to add something to his game an not just rely on doing the odd clever act, because it doesn't come off enough to persist with. He either needs to bring a bit of hardness to his game, start taking a few contested marks or contested possissions, or he needs to increase his work rate and take the game on. I can't see him really becoming a courageous player overnight, but he can run harder. A lot of possession he stops, composes himself and hits up a good option, that's great, but his work shouldn't stop there. He should continue running to at least be an option or link up player.

Anyway, disappointing loss. but we were in it for most of the game. Even though GC were thrashed by the Hawks, I thought they played reasonably well and was expecting tem to roll us by a lot more. Not much of a consolation, but what can I say, reality sucks!

Agree with Howe going back to the forward line

He struggled there the first couple of weeks as the main target, but we didn't have Dawea and Frawley then

He will dominate now as the 3rd option

Howe as a defender was borne out of necessity due to his form. He just wasn't getting near the ball in the forward line. It's our proactive coaches finding a solution to a hairy problem. Sunday he looked back to his best, marking the ball and just being involved. Having Dawes and Frawley is also a massive help; I think we have now established that Howe can't be the chief target.

I'd be more than happy to see him forward again and Dunn back; when both players are playing at their best, that's our most dangerous set up.