Webber I am sick of such negativity, we have to be strong but then again after watching Sundays game live I have to agree. If GWS had kicked straight it would have been embarrassing. But we are used to it, being a laughing stock. I just can't fathom how we could assemble 40 odd players who haven't got it. How is that possible in a draft type lottery system? Yes I know development but I just don't see the raw talent in any of our guys that you usually see in new gun recruits. Watts has talent but no intensity, Clark had it in spades but no luck, so did Jurrah but his background and all his resonsibilities destroyed his career and you can add Wonna to the list.

God knows we have burnt some forward talent in recent years. How do you turn that around inside 10 years?

I wish it were as simple as personnel. I think possibly the biggest part of our malaise is attitudinal. They have a complete absence of confidence..... In their own ability, in their teammates, in the 'team'. Any negative on-field occurrence, and that can be as simple as a couple of quick goals from the opposition, throws them into a fog of self doubt, second-guessing, and sense of helplessness and inevitability. They just have no experience of anything else. I don't doubt that Roos and Stone are the men to work on that, but as Roos has said, the scars are there. I believe those scars are just bigger than for any team at any time in my memory, and these kids in their twenties are grossly unable to see past them. The current media climate is also like no other time in history, and these young guys are more aware than ever that every move they make, every mistake, every time they fail, is scrutinised and judged by the football media, and hence the public, as a lack of heart, guts, application and ability. Thus, a huge diminishing of self worth. And you see it with some of the commentary on here, begging to see them just throw themselves into the fight, effectively suggesting they play for 'pride'. I truly believe that with each defeat, and each weekly negative assessment from outside, they have NO idea what playing for 'pride' might mean. What's so depressing is that I have the same lack of idea as to how this is going to change.

Carlton are last in a lot of categories - I'll also throw it out there if we can't get a w this week we might not get one all year

I wish it were as simple as personnel. I think possibly the biggest part of our malaise is attitudinal. They have a complete absence of confidence..... In their own ability, in their teammates, in the 'team'. Any negative on-field occurrence, and that can be as simple as a couple of quick goals from the opposition, throws them into a fog of self doubt, second-guessing, and sense of helplessness and inevitability. They just have no experience of anything else. I don't doubt that Roos and Stone are the men to work on that, but as Roos has said, the scars are there. I believe those scars are just bigger than for any team at any time in my memory, and these kids in their twenties are grossly unable to see past them. The current media climate is also like no other time in history, and these young guys are more aware than ever that every move they make, every mistake, every time they fail, is scrutinised and judged by the football media, and hence the public, as a lack of heart, guts, application and ability. Thus, a huge diminishing of self worth. And you see it with some of the commentary on here, begging to see them just throw themselves into the fight, effectively suggesting they play for 'pride'. I truly believe that with each defeat, and each weekly negative assessment from outside, they have NO idea what playing for 'pride' might mean. What's so depressing is that I have the same lack of idea as to how this is going to change.

Roos is trying to get them to change that, but it is also true that we have not selected players with great drive for many years. That is changing, but they are coming into a defeated group.

you are dead right about the scrutiny effect - have to be pretty tough as an 18 year old to play footy now for lots of reasons.

Very much agree with this Scoop. The standard MFC response would be that Carlton come out hard and jump us and we then "didn't see that coming, weren't switched on etc.." I would love to see them surprise me for once and be the aggressor.

Don't think they have it in them.

Who would you like to be the tough ones, Watts who is scared of his shadow, Chip who doesn't give a sh-t, Tom Mc who is a nice guy, Tyson who is a youngster etc etc etc.

To me the only ones with some aggro in them are Spencer, Viney, Kent and maybe Cross.

The best of them has just retired and the other one has a bad back and hasn't played yet.

If we can somehow get another two talls into the lineup, a bit of pace with Blease and Barry, and maybe Jordie to do one of his specials on Murphy, we could have some chance.

No it is not the week, Carlton by 55 points, onto round 5.

I think it could be the week for a number of reasons.

Jones is unlikely to have another quiet week.

Vince will pick up his game.

Viney has had a week back in the game and wont be as patchy as he was last week.

Frawley will be stung by all the media this week and will have had a furhter week to used to the idea of being a forward.

Watts is better on the wide spaces of the MCG and struggles on the smaller grounds where his space gets closed down more quickly.

I think we played better than GWS for 3 quarters last week without hitting the scoreboard and our defence was impressive until we dropped our heads.

The stats on Carlton shown by McClure last night on 360 were very revealing, they are last in some pretty fundamental areas.

It wont be easy but we are a chance in this one and should damn well go for it.

Look at the formline of the teams we've come up against so far... We are not as bad as it seems... This could be the week...

I wish it were as simple as personnel. I think possibly the biggest part of our malaise is attitudinal. They have a complete absence of confidence..... In their own ability, in their teammates, in the 'team'. Any negative on-field occurrence, and that can be as simple as a couple of quick goals from the opposition, throws them into a fog of self doubt, second-guessing, and sense of helplessness and inevitability. They just have no experience of anything else. I don't doubt that Roos and Stone are the men to work on that, but as Roos has said, the scars are there. I believe those scars are just bigger than for any team at any time in my memory, and these kids in their twenties are grossly unable to see past them. The current media climate is also like no other time in history, and these young guys are more aware than ever that every move they make, every mistake, every time they fail, is scrutinised and judged by the football media, and hence the public, as a lack of heart, guts, application and ability. Thus, a huge diminishing of self worth. And you see it with some of the commentary on here, begging to see them just throw themselves into the fight, effectively suggesting they play for 'pride'. I truly believe that with each defeat, and each weekly negative assessment from outside, they have NO idea what playing for 'pride' might mean. What's so depressing is that I have the same lack of idea as to how this is going to change.

Bring back Swooper Northey. He had a team of battlers, but geez, they went hard....

Yes it can be if the players finally decide to put in for one another for 4 quarters, tackle hard and run harder.

Go Dees!

Look at the formline of the teams we've come up against so far... We are not as bad as it seems... This could be the week...

Against the saints we were the better side, just didn't finish, if we did it would have been a 5 goal win, against the eagles we battled hard but were heavily out classed, beaten in the ruck and we had noone capable of kicking multiple goals but that result last year would have been 120,130 points i reckon, and against GWS, even one of our key forwards, and no brain fade last quarter and we were around the mark

we could beat Carlton, especially if we get Jamar, Dawes and Garland back.

Against the saints we were the better side, just didn't finish, if we did it would have been a 5 goal win, against the eagles we battled hard but were heavily out classed, beaten in the ruck and we had noone capable of kicking multiple goals but that result last year would have been 120,130 points i reckon, and against GWS, even one of our key forwards, and no brain fade last quarter and we were around the mark

we could beat Carlton, especially if we get Jamar, Dawes and Garland back.

We did not battle hard against the Eagles.

We did not battle hard against the Eagles.

we didn't get done by 150 points, that's something, trying to look for positives geez haha

If Dawes plays and plays well first up then we're a chance. But everything has to go right. We'd need to withstand the inevitable hot first ten minutes and if we're still in the game and make the most of our first quarter opportunities then our self-belief might grow during the game. I'd love to see them tide turning before our very own eyes. Consecutive goals, a hint of arrogance, genuine celebration and a Viney shirtfront on Robinson all in the latter part of the first quarter might just get the competitive juices flowing again around here. And then we might be in for a game of footy. We live in hope.

If Dawes plays and plays well first up then we're a chance. But everything has to go right. We'd need to withstand the inevitable hot first ten minutes and if we're still in the game and make the most of our first quarter opportunities then our self-belief might grow during the game. I'd love to see them tide turning before our very own eyes. Consecutive goals, a hint of arrogance, genuine celebration and a Viney shirtfront on Robinson all in the latter part of the first quarter might just get the competitive juices flowing again around here. And then we might be in for a game of footy. We live in hope.

I've wanted this, or variants of it, for years. It requires players with the right attitude and actions. We need Bernie, Dawes and Cross to demonstrate it and the rest to follow. I'm sure Kent & Viney will be quick students!

Again, it is possible...it just takes a moment where and works and we'll be off. I'm convinced that we are not as bad as we look, funnily enough.

If we can somehow get another two talls into the lineup, a bit of pace with Blease and Barry, and maybe Jordie to do one of his specials on Murphy, we could have some chance.

Look at the formline of the teams we've come up against so far... We are not as bad as it seems... This could be the week...

said this before,but here goes nothing.

playing in some teams with younger players and getting done by plenty,reminded me of the old coaching trick.

hasnt been done since ess/hawth 12 years ago.

start a good old fashioned all in,it gets all the players wound up and gives the coach the ripping line at 1/4 time,we aint lying down for no bugger.it glavanises the team,it promotes competiveness.it makes the young guys stand up and it also brings togetherness at the next training session,especially when the laughter about fines,punches ,who hit who and this sort of conversation takes place.

also noted is carltons lack of leadership{as ours}its something we can actually build on and at least give the club some spirit.

not the worst way to build good old fashioned hatred of losing.

Dees by 19. Malthouse to be sacked before mid season. That, my fellow Demonlanders is the perfect outcome. Let it rain.

I think the boys will be up and about but i still can't see us getting over the line without a fully match fit Dawes (at least 3 weeks away), a 2nd option in Hogan being introduced and Garland slotting in and fully fit.

Although, having said that, if everyone plays as a team and puts in 100% over 4 quarters, and assuming Dawes is in for sure....we could finally [censored] victory from a likely defeat here.

Not getting too excited but mildly interested in how we perform. Big opportunity to [censored] a win here and possibly a rare one for us this year. I only hope the boys see it the same way as this match will be one between the ears in the 2nd half IMO.

Can we finally bury the losing hatchet?

Edit: Sn at ch is a bad word? wow

said this before,but here goes nothing.

playing in some teams with younger players and getting done by plenty,reminded me of the old coaching trick.

hasnt been done since ess/hawth 12 years ago.

start a good old fashioned all in,it gets all the players wound up and gives the coach the ripping line at 1/4 time,we aint lying down for no bugger.it glavanises the team,it promotes competiveness.it makes the young guys stand up and it also brings togetherness at the next training session,especially when the laughter about fines,punches ,who hit who and this sort of conversation takes place.

also noted is carltons lack of leadership{as ours}its something we can actually build on and at least give the club some spirit.

not the worst way to build good old fashioned hatred of losing.

Hoping its spiteful and all stemming from us.

I think the boys will be up and about but i still can't see us getting over the line without a fully match fit Dawes (at least 3 weeks away), a 2nd option in Hogan being introduced and Garland slotting in and fully fit.

Although, having said that, if everyone plays as a team and puts in 100% over 4 quarters, and assuming Dawes is in for sure....we could finally [censored] victory from a likely defeat here.

Not getting too excited but mildly interested in how we perform. Big opportunity to [censored] a win here and possibly a rare one for us this year. I only hope the boys see it the same way as this match will be one between the ears in the 2nd half IMO.

Can we finally bury the losing hatchet?

Edit: Sn at ch is a bad word? wow

Sn at ch is a good word in my world, however rarely it may be that I come across any.

Love it daisy !!

Love it daisy !!

Would it be so funny if we replaced Ratten with Neeld and Malthouse with Roos?

Hell yeah

Enjoy this one boys and girls lets hope this is the beginning of a new era

GO DEES

Would it be so funny if we replaced Ratten with Neeld and Malthouse with Roos?

No, but it'll be funnier this week when it's re-shopped to make it Owen Four

bwahahahaha