RD 1 2014 - v St. Kilda @ Etihad Saturday Night

[Whispering_Jack 27,999]

I was going to mention Barry Price and his contribution to McKenna's glory days at full forward.

Price however, was very predictable.

Hit McKenna on the chest lace up every time he kicked in his direction.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I actually admire what Watters is doing a the Saints. The leadership culture at that club has been abysmal for a decade - they would have won a flag or two if they have stopped all the drinking, whoring, texting, and other rubbish that wasn't only tolerated it was promoted. Ross Lyon aimed for the stars on the back of Grant Thomas' recruiting but failed to develop much young talent. He is doing the same now at Freo on the back of Mark Harvey's recruiting. The Saints need kids with talent and character, and Watters is undertaking this task at a very quick rate.

Their stars are guns, but aging guns. Therefore, if we can break even in the middle we win the match.

• Play Gawn in the ruck, and run Fitzy through the ruck off the bench.
• Jordie to stifle Stevens.
• Set N Jones, Trengove, Viney, Tyson and Toumpas to make sure disposals, tackles, inside 50's from the 2 midfields are about even.
• Fit and firing Dawes, Hogan and Clark will be far too much for the Saints defense.
• McDonald to run all night with Riewoldt
• Blease and Watts to play wide in the run-and-carry roles

With this set up, the odds are in our favour. But I will be very, very nervous. Round 1 has been a nightmare for 8 years!

I would add task our midfield to long bomb into the forward line. It will be under the roof so dry conditions, where Dawes, Howe, Hogan, Clark, Fitzy, and hopefully Lennon will dominate. I would also play Blease as a crumbling forward unless we are lucky enough to pick up Garlett late in the draft.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Round 1, 2013

B Sellar Frawley Nicholson

HB Dunn Garland Gillies

C Grimes Jones Toumpas

HF Watts Pedersen Sylvia

FF Byrnes Clark Howe

R Jamar McKenzie Viney

I/C M. Jones Tapscott Rodan Blease

Possible line-up round 1, 2014

B Clisby Frawley Garland

HB Grimes McDonald Cross

C Watts Jones Vince

HF Trengove Hogan Howe

FF Dawes Clark Kent

R Jamar Tyson Viney

I/C Michie Toumpas Pick 9 Blease

Some will have McKenzie, Terlich or Matt Jones in, while others will have Blease, Toumpas, or Clisby out, but that will unfold over the next 6 months. I prefer Clisby to Terlich and Matt Jones had a good first year, but should struggle to make this side. The less I comment on McKenzie the better. Cross may be forward instead of back, Gawn instead of spud Jamar, etc.

Also, I've named Hogan at CHF. He plays all of next year as a 19 year old and loves to work up the ground and double back, i.e. the classic CHF. I won't let his age restrict his output. We all know he'll be a gun CHF and I see no reason that he can't hold down that spot as a 19 year old right from the start. Others won't like me naming him there.

Bolded are new to the club and underlined didn't play in round one last year; 11 players. Half the side. If they perform to expectations we'll be so superior to last year's outfit it's not funny. Well, maybe it is. It will take a couple of months into the year for the players to become adept at the new game-plan, but injuries permitting we could have a side that forms the nucleus of a very competitive outfit. Games of footy aren't played on paper, but I'm starting to like how ours looks.

Good post. But with due respect I think you have missed the most important difference: Paul Roos. At last we will have a gameplan which makes sense, a coach who knows what he is doing, and a group of players who have confidence in him, and who will respond to his leadership. Has got to be worth 40-50% improvement on last year's lot IMHO, before we start factoring in a competitive mid-field, a potentially devastating forward set up, a rapidly improving and fit Maxy Gawn and Fitzy, and of course wunderkind Jesse Hogan.

[rpfc 27,483]

A 50% improvement on 2013 is 3 wins with a percentage of 75%...

[P-man 13,212]

A 50% improvement on 2013 is 3 wins with a percentage of 75%...

Do we dare to dream?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Good post. But with due respect I think you have missed the most important difference: Paul Roos.

No. I haven't.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'd also have great hesitation about Cross at HB. Given the other two are Grimes and T Mac, we need a very good distributor taking up that spot. Kicking is not one of his strengths. I'd have Vince or even Toumpas there ahead of Cross, who I'd be throwing into the middle from the get go.

One of those half-back positions gives me the most angst. I'd be happy to swap Cross and Howe, as I reckon the latter could excel at HB and Cross is a better option as a defensive HF changing on the ball.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[Dees2014 2,377]

A 50% improvement on 2013 is 3 wins with a percentage of 75%...

I think you should read the post a bit more carefully. I said 50% from Roos alone, before we add in all the rest I listed. With those there it would be 100-125% if you insist I put a figure on it, but IMHO a percentage of 140% would translate to 12-15 wins which this year would put us well and truly in the 8.

Happy now?

[Whispering_Jack 27,999]

I actually admire what Watters is doing at the Saints. The leadership culture at that club has been abysmal for a decade - they would have won a flag or two if they have stopped all the drinking, whoring, texting, and other rubbish that wasn't only tolerated it was promoted. Ross Lyon aimed for the stars on the back of Grant Thomas' recruiting but failed to develop much young talent. He is doing the same now at Freo on the back of Mark Harvey's recruiting. The Saints need kids with talent and character, and Watters is undertaking this task at a very quick rate.

Your timing in showing your support of Watters was impeccable.

However, I think on balance that you're right about what he was trying to do at St. Kilda with a group whose elder statesmen sound to be set in their ways and resistant to change, discipline and cold, hard truths in very much the same way our older leaders reacted when Neeld came in. Possibly, both Neeld and Watters failed to take care to win the confidence and trust of the playing group when they came in but it definitely works both ways and the stories coming out of St. Kilda today reflect poorly on their playing group and team leaders. I suspect the next couple of years at Seaford are going to be hot and stormy as the bad, old influences are gradually weeded out and that applies irrespective of who coaches them.

[rpfc 27,483]

I think you should read the post a bit more carefully. I said 50% from Roos alone, before we add in all the rest I listed. With those there it would be 100-125% if you insist I put a figure on it, but IMHO a percentage of 140% would translate to 12-15 wins which this year would put us well and truly in the 8.

Happy now?

Deliriously...

[P-man 13,212]

One of those half-back positions gives me the most angst. I'd be happy to swap Cross and Howe, as I reckon the latter could excel at HB and Cross is a better option as a defensive HF changing on the ball.

It's one of the headache positions. I still have hopes for Strauss but those hopes officially have a 12 month expiry date.

[rpfc 27,483]

For the past few years I have decided to form my 21+1 around the midfield rotations and leave aside the traditional 'lines' as I see them as only relevant in helping people count to 18 on the field...

Ruck: Jamar

Fwds: Clark, Dawes, and Gawn (2nd ruck).

Defs: Frawley, Garland, McDonald, Clisby, Terlich, and Toumpas.

Mid Rotation: N Jones, Cross, Vince, Viney, Trengove, Tyson, M Jones, Michie and Grimes (rotate back), and Watts, Howe, and Hogan (rotate fwd).

I want to get Watts and Hogan up the ground for different reasons, and I would love to see all of Cross, Vince, Michie, and Tyson fit and firing for this game. All are first choice mids in our midfield (save for Michie who has to prove himself above Evans, Kent et al).

[DeeSpencer 23,169]

Possible line-up round 1, 2014

B Clisby Frawley Garland

HB Grimes McDonald Cross

C Watts Jones Vince

HF Trengove Hogan Howe

FF Dawes Clark Kent

R Jamar Tyson Viney

I/C Michie Toumpas Pick 9 Blease

Things I dislike. Would like an earnest debate BH cause I like your opinions

- Naming Pick 9: We need to get out of this attitude. I think it's half the reason why Roos was so keen to trade pick 2. Pick 9 in all likelihood will be good enough but we shouldn't be reliant on it. The current players at the club have the best part of a months advantage under Roos and then much more fitness base. Let's wait until at least the draft until we get to this stage. If we draft Freeman then I'm not convinced he should be playing round 1

- Cross at half back. Cross is a midfield running specialist and can't hit the side of a barn by foot. Put him in the midfield and let him use his run, hand ball and ability to lead out in space and mark I'd say. The saints at this stage dont have a great 4th tall forward after Riewoldt, Lee and a second ruck. So at this stage Grimes can cover and Watts is always an option come game time. The Howe idea has merit as well but I liked to see another half season of him forward and midfield rotation especially work on his defensive game. Cross doesn't remind me of a Roos half back.

- Jamar over Gawn. After his first preseason surely Gawn goes past Jamar. Gets way more footy and based purely on hit outs I think Gawn will even the gap

- Blease. The ultimate Paul Roos prospect. All depends on his preseason and form if he's seriously fit and fires in the preseason then I'll be the first to pick him but surely the first thing Roos does is set a standard on work rate from our half forward/midfield rotation players and to me that means Blease starts at Casey and gets a good month of midfield footy and consistent performance. I don't have the faith in him right now.

- Toumpas. Similar to Blease I think Toumpas has a heap of work on his physical game. He's a reasonably willing tackler but pretty rubbish in the air and good midfield runners can lose him in traffic or in space. And just like Blease it depends on preseason and how limited his first prep was I'd say.

Overall (besides Gawn for Jamar as a personal preference) I think my main differences are because I'm looking towards a Roos style set up with a more skilled player at half back and replacing 3 young midfielders you've named (pick 9, Blease, Toumpas) with 3 older more mature and more defensive mids. Who knows if Roos will actually see it that way or will go for the speed and skill but I'm going on Roos' exposed form and if we aren't backing Roos in then we are stuffed!

[Hannibal 5,814]

Things I dislike. Would like an earnest debate BH cause I like your opinions

- Naming Pick 9: We need to get out of this attitude. I think it's half the reason why Roos was so keen to trade pick 2. Pick 9 in all likelihood will be good enough but we shouldn't be reliant on it. The current players at the club have the best part of a months advantage under Roos and then much more fitness base. Let's wait until at least the draft until we get to this stage. If we draft Freeman then I'm not convinced he should be playing round 1

- Cross at half back. Cross is a midfield running specialist and can't hit the side of a barn by foot. Put him in the midfield and let him use his run, hand ball and ability to lead out in space and mark I'd say. The saints at this stage dont have a great 4th tall forward after Riewoldt, Lee and a second ruck. So at this stage Grimes can cover and Watts is always an option come game time. The Howe idea has merit as well but I liked to see another half season of him forward and midfield rotation especially work on his defensive game. Cross doesn't remind me of a Roos half back.

- Jamar over Gawn. After his first preseason surely Gawn goes past Jamar. Gets way more footy and based purely on hit outs I think Gawn will even the gap

- Blease. The ultimate Paul Roos prospect. All depends on his preseason and form if he's seriously fit and fires in the preseason then I'll be the first to pick him but surely the first thing Roos does is set a standard on work rate from our half forward/midfield rotation players and to me that means Blease starts at Casey and gets a good month of midfield footy and consistent performance. I don't have the faith in him right now.

- Toumpas. Similar to Blease I think Toumpas has a heap of work on his physical game. He's a reasonably willing tackler but pretty rubbish in the air and good midfield runners can lose him in traffic or in space. And just like Blease it depends on preseason and how limited his first prep was I'd say.

Overall (besides Gawn for Jamar as a personal preference) I think my main differences are because I'm looking towards a Roos style set up with a more skilled player at half back and replacing 3 young midfielders you've named (pick 9, Blease, Toumpas) with 3 older more mature and more defensive mids. Who knows if Roos will actually see it that way or will go for the speed and skill but I'm going on Roos' exposed form and if we aren't backing Roos in then we are stuffed!

Pick 9 - is speculative. Will either be ready, or not. In light of the other crap on our list I'm "hopeful" rather than certain. An "interchangeable" player that's not pivotal.

I don't like Cross at half back either. Don't get excited. I think I've said this on another post.

Jamar is a spud. I was the one that gave him the nickname "donuts" 8 years ago, so no need to convince me. Gawn may not be ready either. It's a weak position. Flip a coin. Hopefully Gawn takes the role, but don't bet on it. He's still young.

Blease is crap. I think I've said this already. Pick whomever you want.

Toumpas is also crap right now, which I've touched on elsewhere. Pick some other crap player in his place. Just another "interchangeable" who isn't pivotal - yet.

You're arguing at the periphery. Who you like or don't like won't make a pinch of sh** difference at the edges.

Concentrate on the core, not 3 or 4 players that are at the fringes.

[robbiefrom13 877]

Pick 9 - is speculative. Will either be ready, or not. In light of the other crap on our list I'm "hopeful" rather than certain. An "interchangeable" player that's not pivotal.

I don't like Cross at half back either. Don't get excited. I think I've said this on another post.

Jamar is a spud. I was the one that gave him the nickname "donuts" 8 years ago, so no need to convince me. Gawn may not be ready either. It's a weak position. Flip a coin. Hopefully Gawn takes the role, but don't bet on it. He's still young.

Blease is crap. I think I've said this already. Pick whomever you want.

Toumpas is also crap right now, which I've touched on elsewhere. Pick some other crap player in his place. Just another "interchangeable" who isn't pivotal - yet.

You're arguing at the periphery. Who you like or don't like won't make a pinch of sh** difference at the edges.

Concentrate on the core, not 3 or 4 players that are at the fringes.

Paul Roos is not a bullyboy; he follows his own ideas, and operates in respect, with intelligence, and so on... We believe he is very good at what he's been employed to do at Melbourne. We really hope he is going to change the culture of the club - and by his own words we can see the sorts of attitudes and relationships that would characterise a culture he'd built.

Wouldn't it be nice, while he labours away at rebuilding our footy club, if Paul Roos also had an incidental effect on the supporters? In particular, on the thinking and manner of speaking of those he-man Demonlanders who are still posting unadulterated intolerance and abuse? (How juvenile it is, to endlessly be telling people what to do, issuing directives and judgments as though you are the reference point for all discussion!)

Roos has signed on for two, possibly three, years - could he have an impact on the team's supporters that quickly?

But whether the jocks of Demonland get it or not, Roos and his enlightened approach is a most welcome alternative story for many of us. Maybe "harden up" isn't the only way; thuggery not the inescapable price of success; maybe sneering at our players and calling them "choir-boys" and "crap" is no longer going to be the dominant story in the community of the Melbourne footy club. Nice to have you aboard, Paul!

[DeeSpencer 23,169]

Paul Roos is not a bullyboy; he follows his own ideas, and operates in respect, with intelligence, and so on... We believe he is very good at what he's been employed to do at Melbourne. We really hope he is going to change the culture of the club - and by his own words we can see the sorts of attitudes and relationships that would characterise a culture he'd built.

Wouldn't it be nice, while he labours away at rebuilding our footy club, if Paul Roos also had an incidental effect on the supporters? In particular, on the thinking and manner of speaking of those he-man Demonlanders who are still posting unadulterated intolerance and abuse? (How juvenile it is, to endlessly be telling people what to do, issuing directives and judgments as though you are the reference point for all discussion!)

Roos has signed on for two, possibly three, years - could he have an impact on the team's supporters that quickly?

But whether the jocks of Demonland get it or not, Roos and his enlightened approach is a most welcome alternative story for many of us. Maybe "harden up" isn't the only way; thuggery not the inescapable price of success; maybe sneering at our players and calling them "choir-boys" and "crap" is no longer going to be the dominant story in the community of the Melbourne footy club. Nice to have you aboard, Paul!

I think people give Ben Hur too much credit around here as some kind of force of evil. He's got a lovely mix of narcissistic and antisocial nature to his prose, not doubt reinforced by those who call him names.

Sure there was a lack of civility and the team work nature that lead to the most enthralling discussions on demonland but BH isn't here for that. He's here to express his view. He gave up. His answer was pretty reasonable in the end - he said the fringe positions are largely irrelevant as it's the enhance core of players that matter most. He didn't attack me personally in the answer. He did say Jamar was a spud but that's hardly earth shattering on demonland.

And I can see the point although I'd argue with a team with a percentage of 54 getting all 22 working together makes a big difference as well as the top 15 or so who decide the outcome of most AFL games in a week.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Things I dislike. Would like an earnest debate BH cause I like your opinions

- Naming Pick 9: We need to get out of this attitude. I think it's half the reason why Roos was so keen to trade pick 2. Pick 9 in all likelihood will be good enough but we shouldn't be reliant on it. The current players at the club have the best part of a months advantage under Roos and then much more fitness base. Let's wait until at least the draft until we get to this stage. If we draft Freeman then I'm not convinced he should be playing round 1

- Cross at half back. Cross is a midfield running specialist and can't hit the side of a barn by foot. Put him in the midfield and let him use his run, hand ball and ability to lead out in space and mark I'd say. The saints at this stage dont have a great 4th tall forward after Riewoldt, Lee and a second ruck. So at this stage Grimes can cover and Watts is always an option come game time. The Howe idea has merit as well but I liked to see another half season of him forward and midfield rotation especially work on his defensive game. Cross doesn't remind me of a Roos half back.

- Jamar over Gawn. After his first preseason surely Gawn goes past Jamar. Gets way more footy and based purely on hit outs I think Gawn will even the gap

- Blease. The ultimate Paul Roos prospect. All depends on his preseason and form if he's seriously fit and fires in the preseason then I'll be the first to pick him but surely the first thing Roos does is set a standard on work rate from our half forward/midfield rotation players and to me that means Blease starts at Casey and gets a good month of midfield footy and consistent performance. I don't have the faith in him right now.

- Toumpas. Similar to Blease I think Toumpas has a heap of work on his physical game. He's a reasonably willing tackler but pretty rubbish in the air and good midfield runners can lose him in traffic or in space. And just like Blease it depends on preseason and how limited his first prep was I'd say.

Overall (besides Gawn for Jamar as a personal preference) I think my main differences are because I'm looking towards a Roos style set up with a more skilled player at half back and replacing 3 young midfielders you've named (pick 9, Blease, Toumpas) with 3 older more mature and more defensive mids. Who knows if Roos will actually see it that way or will go for the speed and skill but I'm going on Roos' exposed form and if we aren't backing Roos in then we are stuffed!

M,

Mostly agree.

No doubt Roos and his team will directly challenge our young, inexperienced, but immensely talented mids that defensive pressure is as important as offence. They need to be challenged to break the lines, but equally to do the gut running and get back and cover and then spread offensively. I think because they have been poorly coached they did not do this enough either out of ignorance or laziness (or both). In my view this is Roos biggest initial task, but his record suggests he is outstanding at it (as his swans coaching videos suggest). If he can get Bleese, Trengove, Vince, Tyson, Jones, Watts, Michie, Grimes, Viney, Howe to really commit to this I think the results could be anything.

I also very much agree with you about rotations. Hogan needs to play as a half forward mid where we can use his fast leading, immense engine and strong marking to be the link between the mid field and the exciting forward set up (likewise with Howe). Similarly with Grimes, McDonald and Garland in the back half. Our forward set up has more than enough marking power in Dawes, Clark, and at times Gawn or Fitzy when resting, to cause havoc with defenses.

The group needs to be challenged to take the game on defensively and offensively and take a few risks. The Bailey sides of four years ago at their best were outstanding offensively but poor defensively. If we can get this back and have the stamina and commitment defensively, this side could be quite something. Strange as it is to say, given our appalling record over the last 2-3 years, but I think Roos and his team have assembled the cattle to be as good as if not better than our team in the 1990s and late 80s. We have some immensely talented youngsters, badly coached and therefore underperforming.

I have no doubt Roos and his team will fix this. It is a mouth watering prospect.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Dees2014

[Dees2014 2,377]

Paul Roos is not a bullyboy; he follows his own ideas, and operates in respect, with intelligence, and so on... We believe he is very good at what he's been employed to do at Melbourne. We really hope he is going to change the culture of the club - and by his own words we can see the sorts of attitudes and relationships that would characterise a culture he'd built.

Wouldn't it be nice, while he labours away at rebuilding our footy club, if Paul Roos also had an incidental effect on the supporters? In particular, on the thinking and manner of speaking of those he-man Demonlanders who are still posting unadulterated intolerance and abuse? (How juvenile it is, to endlessly be telling people what to do, issuing directives and judgments as though you are the reference point for all discussion!)

Roos has signed on for two, possibly three, years - could he have an impact on the team's supporters that quickly?

But whether the jocks of Demonland get it or not, Roos and his enlightened approach is a most welcome alternative story for many of us. Maybe "harden up" isn't the only way; thuggery not the inescapable price of success; maybe sneering at our players and calling them "choir-boys" and "crap" is no longer going to be the dominant story in the community of the Melbourne footy club. Nice to have you aboard, Paul!

Very well said Robbie. Couldn't agree with you more.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I think people give Ben Hur too much credit around here as some kind of force of evil. He's got a lovely mix of narcissistic and antisocial nature to his prose, not doubt reinforced by those who call him names.

Sure there was a lack of civility and the team work nature that lead to the most enthralling discussions on demonland but BH isn't here for that. He's here to express his view. He gave up. His answer was pretty reasonable in the end - he said the fringe positions are largely irrelevant as it's the enhance core of players that matter most. He didn't attack me personally in the answer. He did say Jamar was a spud but that's hardly earth shattering on demonland.

And I can see the point although I'd argue with a team with a percentage of 54 getting all 22 working together makes a big difference as well as the top 15 or so who decide the outcome of most AFL games in a week.

He also said:

Bleese is crap

Toumpas is crap

Jamar is past it, and

Gawn is not up to it.

Well if Roos went into Melbourne with that attitude then we are beaten before we begin.

Fortunately he is far far more sophisticated than that.

He says he wants to get absolutely the very best out of each player and make them the very best players they can possibly be.

We have about 14 first round draft picks on our list yet we are the worst performing club in the land outside the development ones. Clearly we are nowhere near where we could be.

To say that two of those very young first rounders are "crap" is just nonsense. Fortunately we have a coach who does not so easily raise the white flag.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

I think this is actually a really good opening game for both clubs. It should give us all a good idea of where the two teams stand. We were pretty even with them mid-year. They've lost some midfield strength and a bit of firepower which should work in our favour. In all it's a very winnable game, although it should be said that we'll be throwing in an almost entirely untried lineup as well. Great work by the AFL in scheduling this for round 1 and giving both clubs a sniff of a flying start and a top 8 spot after round one.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Sure there was a lack of civility and the team work nature that lead to the most enthralling discussions on demonland but BH isn't here for that.

Made me chuckle.

On re-reading my response in the cool light of day I was a tad aggressive, not to mention offensive and defensive. Thankfully you're not a real person, just an internet identity. We're not real. None of this is real. What I'm about to post isn't real.

I'm quite bullish about next year and subsequent years, which is why I posted last year's team and a possible line-up for this year. Any annoyance I showed was because arguing a couple of positional changes, or players at the periphery was losing sight of the point I was making. But I know you know this...

Jamar is finished, but can hopefully neutralise the ruck contests, or if Gawn has a great summer he may be ready to take over.

When I said that Blease and Toumpas were "crap" I am obviously talking about the here and now. And right now they don't impact games of footy and have been exposed by the intensity of AFL footy. I wouldn't have included them in the possible 2014 round 1 line-up if I didn't acknowledge their innate talent and potential to improve. I have great faith in Paul Roos to give every player the chance to realise their potential. I don't feel the need to state this all of the time, because it's a given. Throbbie may feel the need to enlighten us all by stating the bleeding obvious, but I don't.

The future is bright and I look forward to 2014. If the midfield can "click" pretty quickly we'll play some competitive footy next year.

[robbiefrom13 877]

Made me chuckle.

On re-reading my response in the cool light of day I was a tad aggressive, not to mention offensive and defensive. Thankfully you're not a real person, just an internet identity. We're not real. None of this is real. What I'm about to post isn't real.

I'm quite bullish about next year and subsequent years, which is why I posted last year's team and a possible line-up for this year. Any annoyance I showed was because arguing a couple of positional changes, or players at the periphery was losing sight of the point I was making. But I know you know this...

Jamar is finished, but can hopefully neutralise the ruck contests, or if Gawn has a great summer he may be ready to take over.

When I said that Blease and Toumpas were "crap" I am obviously talking about the here and now. And right now they don't impact games of footy and have been exposed by the intensity of AFL footy. I wouldn't have included them in the possible 2014 round 1 line-up if I didn't acknowledge their innate talent and potential to improve. I have great faith in Paul Roos to give every player the chance to realise their potential. I don't feel the need to state this all of the time, because it's a given. Throbbie may feel the need to enlighten us all by stating the bleeding obvious, but I don't.

The future is bright and I look forward to 2014. If the midfield can "click" pretty quickly we'll play some competitive footy next year.

I wonder if in time you'll see that "tad" as a bit of an understatement? Still, a grudging apology is, pride allowed for, still an apology, no matter how ungracious. Good of the unreal you to concede so much!

"Right now" nobody impacts games of footy. These guys are about to learn under a new and experienced and highly credentialled and impressive new coach, and will go on doing so, intensively, for several months before any of us will be in a position to judge or comment on their next outings. "Bullish" in these circumstances surely has to mean watching with interest and anticipation, not still spouting backwards-firing bulltish.

"Stating the obvious" may refocus the discussion, which I thought was a reasonable idea in the aftermath of your leaving yet another abusive dump on the board, having been annoyed again because somebody has again disagreed with you. Your past aggro and bullying instinct has been a given, as "obvious" and predictable as anything posted here. But Roos with his entirely different approach has hit your radar - worth reminding you, I thought... Maybe obvious, but is it getting through? Do we evolve, or are we going to be a placard our whole life?

[rpfc 27,483]

Made me chuckle.

On re-reading my response in the cool light of day I was a tad aggressive, not to mention offensive and defensive. Thankfully you're not a real person, just an internet identity. We're not real. None of this is real. What I'm about to post isn't real.

Anonymity doesn't make what is written on the internet non-corporeal. It removes all context and sheds credibility but an insult is an insult whether you know that person's name or not.

With that said - there are worse opinions then thinking someone is crap or a dud.

To those criticising BH for that, there are far more vile and mean spirited things being said on BF, Facebook, and even on here about posters and a few players.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,278]

I/C M. Jones Tapscott Rodan Blease


Possible line-up round 1, 2014


B Clisby Frawley Garland

HB Grimes McDonald Cross

C Watts Jones Vince

HF Trengove Hogan Howe

FF Dawes Clark Kent

R Jamar Tyson Viney

I/C Michie Toumpas Pick 9 Blease

Like you, I see Jamar riding into the sunset but I see Spencer rather than Gawn replacing him initially. That aside I'd be interested to hear where you see Fitzy fitting in next year. Neither Gawn nor Spencer can ruck all day but I don't really want to see Clark or Dawes having to take on the responsibility of "second " ruck - I'd rather see them kicking goals. Fitzy is athletic and with a good preseason is he capable of another role (half back wing) while providing some ruck support. If al our bigs are fit we have some interesting selection issues.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I/C M. Jones Tapscott Rodan Blease

Possible line-up round 1, 2014

B Clisby Frawley Garland

HB Grimes McDonald Cross

C Watts Jones Vince

HF Trengove Hogan Howe

FF Dawes Clark Kent

R Jamar Tyson Viney

I/C Michie Toumpas Pick 9 Blease

Like you, I see Jamar riding into the sunset but I see Spencer rather than Gawn replacing him initially. That aside I'd be interested to hear where you see Fitzy fitting in next year. Neither Gawn nor Spencer can ruck all day but I don't really want to see Clark or Dawes having to take on the responsibility of "second " ruck - I'd rather see them kicking goals. Fitzy is athletic and with a good preseason is he capable of another role (half back wing) while providing some ruck support. If al our bigs are fit we have some interesting selection issues.

It's a good question. When my Brother and I were having a convivial at the pub in Richmond on Friday we had Fitzpatrick in and out of the bench. Ultimately we thought we needed run, so kept him out. Clark can do a bit, but it's a fair point you raise. But Clark, Hogan, Dawes is already a tall forward 50, so it will be interesting to see how they structure things up and where Fitzpatrick Fitz in.