Shane Savage

[Dockett 32 1,239]

  On 05/10/2013 at 05:19, Belzebubsy said:

my point is very simple...priority is mids. Fitzy isn't a priority. We have any number filling some of these roles. We haven next to none filling the mids list. We have a very shallow pool there

We need mids alright and quite a number of them. Clearly no argument at all there. Whilst its hard enough to find mids, it took us an absolute eternity to find a few big blokes, so I wouldn't be chucking out an up and comer for the reasons previously stated. In addition there is a cloud over Clarke and Dawes missed quite a few games . Further, I note that the rosters of Hawthorn, Geelong, Swans and others have numerous big bodies . Take a look at the Swans for instance, Pike, Tippet, Reid, Mumford, White ( pre trade of course) and now they add BF. So I think Roos might like bigger bodies. We should end up with some tradeable draft picks 20's , 30's and compo, plus some tradeable ( smaller) players who just haven't cut it. Other clubs still have to cull further too, so I doubt if we have anywhere near the full picture yet.

Early days.

[beelzebub 23,392]

Its about needs and timings.

Yeah...lets warehouse all the tall timber.....who needs an engine in a car anyway. We can all stand back and admire the wonderful forest !!

Personally id give up Spencil before Fitzy but important more focussed on getting some inside 50's happening on a regular basis.

[demoniac 1,337]

  On 05/10/2013 at 05:19, Belzebubsy said:

my point is very simple...priority is mids. Fitzy isn't a priority. We have any number filling some of these roles. We haven next to none filling the mids list. We have a very shallow pool there

The role Fitzpatrick can fill is the athletic tall who can play forward and also go into the Ruck. We do not have 'any number' filling that role. We have 2 who can. One is Clark who who we should play as a permanent key forward and is injury prone. The second in Fitzpatrick. Thats it. Nyet. No more. Two. Not 'any number'.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

  On 05/10/2013 at 07:03, demoniac said:

The role Fitzpatrick can fill is the athletic tall who can play forward and also go into the Ruck. We do not have 'any number' filling that role. We have 2 who can. One is Clark who who we should play as a permanent key forward and is injury prone. The second in Fitzpatrick. Thats it. Nyet. No more. Two. Not 'any number'.

Problem is Fitzy gets smashed in the ruck. He is athletic and has decent skills, and he is handy on the lead, but he isn't a ruckman's bum hole.

Personally, I don't think he'll go anywhere (and I don't think he can having signed a new deal this year), but he is one of our expendable talls if we needed something extra to get an important deal over the line.

[beelzebub 23,392]

Strangely Ruck ISN'T the most important position to fill. Many a team win WITHOUT a dominant Ruck. They do however win from clearances.

Clark

Jamar

Gawn

Fitzy

even Spencil can stand the square

yep...a number

[Dr. Gonzo 24,463]

  On 05/10/2013 at 00:40, Belzebubsy said:

not when you dont even have a reasonable stock of 'average' midfielders !!!

This isnt about collecting Footy cards, its not about having a 5th reserve tall etc, its about getting the bloody midfield into something approaching a better than VFL grade rabble and being competitive.

If Fitzy is part of a deal , so be it

I agree with the premise but the thing you're forgetting in this instance is Hawthorn would have no interest at all in Fitzpatrick. We'd have to throw up Gawn probably to even get them interested.

[Deecisive 1,709]

I see great upside with Fitzy, he has really come along this year, another pre-season to get him fitter would make him even better. With his height and speed no reason he could no fill a lot of positions including possibly in the backline.

We should be trying to ditch some of our not so good mids that we have now rather than just trying to get rid of fitzy. Everyone seems to want to give some of our lesser lights another year in the hope they redeem themselves or improve, unfortunately that year should have been this year under Neeld. If we keep putting off replacing them then we are never going to get anywhere. need a real good assessment by Roo's and Co to identify what if any besides Jones and Viney are good enough to keep. We need hard running mid who can rest forward and back as well as run in the middle, not a lot of our current players are capable of covering one of these roles.

[Deecisive 1,709]

By the way didnt fitzy come from Hawthorn in the first place?

[Machsy 2,858]

Fitzy is a poor ruckman.

He regularly doesn't even break even.

If you're hanging onto him for that reason, it's the wrong reason.

[Disco Demons 92]

Give up Jamar and swap of picks for Shane savage. Jobs done

[Deez 298]

We keep fitz. He's worked too hard for us to trade him for a player that is really a medium forward that plays stints in the mid. Loyalty doesn't count for much these days unfortunately, but given fitz's situation with illness and the time the club has given him, I think his loyalty is strong and something we shouldn't take light heartedly. It's also something this club needs to focus on a little more than it has.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,463]

  On 05/10/2013 at 10:01, disco_demon said:

Give up Jamar and swap of picks for Shane savage. Jobs done

Jamar's finished no one would be stupid enough to take him yet we gave him a 3 year deal. He can't even jump off the ground at centre bounces anymore and he's back to being donuts again after a good year or two in 2010-11.

[DeeSpencer 26,631]

  On 05/10/2013 at 11:21, Dr. Gonzo said:

Jamar's finished no one would be stupid enough to take him yet we gave him a 3 year deal. He can't even jump off the ground at centre bounces anymore and he's back to being donuts again after a good year or two in 2010-11.

If Bailey retired the Hawks could be interested in someone like Jamar to go with Billy Longer. They certainly wont give us anything for him though considering they'd be taking his contract off our books

[Dr. Gonzo 24,463]

  On 05/10/2013 at 11:51, the master said:

If Bailey retired the Hawks could be interested in someone like Jamar to go with Billy Longer. They certainly wont give us anything for him though considering they'd be taking his contract off our books

But they still have Hale.

[mog 58]

I see Fitzy as a key forward, that is seen as a ruck due to him being 200cm tall, not because he's shown any ability to play in the ruck. As such I don't think he will ever be able to hold down first ruck, but be purely a relief ruckman.

Next year if Hogan, Dawes, and Clark are fit , and Clark is able to relieve in the ruck , I don't think you can fit fitzy in your best 22.

At the moment Fitzy is the only guy on our list that is not in our best 22, that has any trade value.

The big question of if you are going to trade Fitzy is if you believe Hogan will play most games next year, Dawes and Clark are going to able to get fit and stay on the park next year and in the future, and specifically if you think Clark will be able play second ruck .

If you think that will all happen you'd consider trading fitzy, personally I wouldn't bet on it and would keep him at least another year, though for the right deal I'd trade him.

Trading him for Savage isn't the right deal.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Who on our list has the size, speed, strength and agility of Jack Fitz?

Add to that some steady improvement in contested marking, good courage, a decent brain and willingness to work. Kicking skills which was his big knock are too becoming more reliable.

Our investment is about 30% mature. Should not trade.

NB Has all the tools to be a very good CHB.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

  On 05/10/2013 at 15:49, dandeeman said:

Who on our list has the size, speed, strength and agility of Jack Fitz?

Add to that some steady improvement in contested marking, good courage, a decent brain and willingness to work. Kicking skills which was his big knock are too becoming more reliable.

Our investment is about 30% mature. Should not trade.

NB Has all the tools to be a very good CHB.

Who does he replace in a fit side though? Making him sound like a superstar but he isn't best 22.

[samcantstandya 1,068]

  On 04/10/2013 at 07:06, the master said:

Anyone else think this guys a bit of a spud. Just not a very smart footballer. Can kick but doesn't use the ball well. Doesn't win a heap of the ball. Isn't really a forward, inside mid or outside mid.

I'd take him for a third round pick because he's ready to go and would add something but I would kind of be hoping he gives us 50 decent games over the next few years but then gets pushed out by more talented players.

If that's an accurate appraisal, why bother.

[Disco Demons 92]

Jamar would be a great sub each week. Pick up where Bailey finished. Heart trade for savage

[Deez 298]

  On 05/10/2013 at 15:52, Wiseblood said:

Who does he replace in a fit side though? Making him sound like a superstar but he isn't best 22.

Your right, but atm our best 22 includes 2 fwds that have been injury prone and one 18 year old. Theres a good chance that fitz will probably play half the season due to hogan needing a rest and rotating with clark and dawes depending on their injury status. He is a very good back up forward that can play stints in the ruck. We definatly keep fitz unless an exceptional deal comes up. We have lacked fwd tarets for so long, now we have them, lets not trade them for peanuts.

[DeeSpencer 26,631]

  On 05/10/2013 at 11:57, Dr. Gonzo said:

But they still have Hale.

Hale is already in the team as forward/ruck and without Franklin hell be a vital forward. Leaves Longer as number 1 ruck with young and inexperienced Ceglar and Lowden for back up. A veteran would make sense but Clarkson has shown he's ok with young rucks before.

  On 05/10/2013 at 20:27, samcantstandya said:

If that's an accurate appraisal, why bother.

In some ways I think we're desperate enough that a short term body is worth an investment. Savage could make it but to me he screams 100 games of ok footy then career done. Which is fine but you want to recruit guys who can play 150 for your club not 50.

  On 05/10/2013 at 23:37, disco_demon said:

Jamar would be a great sub each week. Pick up where Bailey finished. Heart trade for savage

crazy. You sub off a ruck for more run not less. And Bailey retired anyway!

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 05/10/2013 at 09:54, Deecisive said:

By the way didnt fitzy come from Hawthorn in the first place?

drafted 50 in 2009

[beelzebub 23,392]

In order to get , you need to give. We are after mids, players who will figure in our best 22 week in week out.

Fitzy isnt a best 22 and in all likely hood will find it hard to get a regular gig once the likes of Hogan , Clark, Dawes Howe .

possibly his maximum value as of today is a trade...palatable to some ?? no...A reality....perhaps

The thing is..Id rather Savage in our list than Fitzy. its not personal, its pragmatism

[DemonWA 3,941]

I often click on this thread hoping for some gos on a poential deal for Savage, only to remember that the thread has been Hijacked by talk of trading our Midfield gun / part time ruck/forward, Jack Fitzpatrick to the Hawks

FFS

[beelzebub 23,392]

  On 06/10/2013 at 23:46, DemonWA said:

I often click on this thread hoping for some gos on a poential deal for Savage, only to remember that the thread has been Hijacked by talk of trading our Midfield gun / part time ruck/forward, Jack Fitzpatrick to the Hawks

FFS

and yet ..thats a possible way of actually GETTING Savage...FFS !!!!!

No hijack at all...its a discussion of paths and methods....of same said SS