MELBOURNE TEAM FOR ROUND 1, 2014

[Adam The God 29,335]

I love how people have Michie in he best 22. What a joke, The kid has played 1 game.

And yes I know Hogan hasn't played one but he is a B&F winner and a 'top 3' draft choice. Michie was originally pick #44.

He might prove to be OK but he ain't the messiah.

No one's saying he is, mate. Naming him best 22 is logical and says more about our previous team than anything else. His lack of experience is largely irrelevant, as he will hopefully become a role player, not a star. If the latter eventuates, then that'll be a bonus.

Edited October 20, 2013 by AdamFarr

[P-man 13,366]

There is a thread on bigfooty asking to nominate a player in the league who will have a breakout season. Several posters, from a variety of clubs, have nominated Viv Michie.

Take that on face value, but even just watching his game against Geelong this year, he doesn't just enter our best 22, he waltzes into it.

[Adam The God 29,335]

No you didn't, there's no way your ruck selection Gawn can take 100% of non "forward rucking", someone has to give him a chop-out, including centre bounces and all around the ground. The only player in your line-up that can do that id Clark and if Gawn gets injured then Clark's doing it all. I don't have a problem with this, any other solution, as Nasher says, is unbalanced.

Every line-up I looked at on this thread has this set-up - whether they realise it or not (maybe someone has Fitz on the bench).

Severe oversight on my part, 55. You're right. It probably has to be Clark for 5 minutes a quarter then. Jees, it's not ideal though is it? I'd hope that with time Hogan could play this role, much like Roughead does for the complainers.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,064]

I'd have that the other way around. Spencer has had more preseasons than Gawn, including last year, yet Gawn still played more games this year. With a proper preseason Gawn will be miles ahead of Spencer next year.

Also, not sure where you get your info but Gawn averaged more tackles than Spencer this year, so you can forget that argument.

Fair point about the tackles Stuie but an average of 2.5 over 2.4 is hardly compelling. Further we can all select stats to suit our purpose eg Spencer averaged 26.6 hits to Gawns 18.6 and 10 disposals to Gawns 8.9.

However, my observations were that Spencer looked a vastly improved player and was slowed down by a suspension just when he was looking good. I hope both succeed but across the games I saw live I felt Spencer had placed himself ahead.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,764]

B. Dunn Frawley Garland

HB. Grimes McDonald Clisby

C. Watts Trengove Vince

HF. Howe Dawes Byrnes

F. Kent Hogan Clark

R. Jamar Jones Michie

Int. Toumpas, Tyson, M.Jones

Blease (green vest)

Still looks a bottom 4 side and small-forwards are a worry (didn't want to put Byrnes in).

If (sorry, when) Hogan's the beast we all expect him to be then Clark can play as the second ruckman.

Lynden Dunn gets a gig because he's experienced. Terlich and M Jones will not be walkup starts in 2014.. full credit to them for what they achieved this year but neither are long-term solutions IMO.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Sylvia Saint

[Adam The God 29,335]

Fair point about the tackles Stuie but an average of 2.5 over 2.4 is hardly compelling. Further we can all select stats to suit our purpose eg Spencer averaged 26.6 hits to Gawns 18.6 and 10 disposals to Gawns 8.9.

However, my observations were that Spencer looked a vastly improved player and was slowed down by a suspension just when he was looking good. I hope both succeed but across the games I saw live I felt Spencer had placed himself ahead.

Yeah, I reckon Spencer cops a bit of unfair flak on DL. He's certainly not flawless and we still need to see a lot of improvement in him, but I thought his efforts this year were vastly improved. Some of his chasing and tackling was excellent for a big man.

Edited October 20, 2013 by AdamFarr

[stuie 7,374]

Fair point about the tackles Stuie but an average of 2.5 over 2.4 is hardly compelling. Further we can all select stats to suit our purpose eg Spencer averaged 26.6 hits to Gawns 18.6 and 10 disposals to Gawns 8.9.

However, my observations were that Spencer looked a vastly improved player and was slowed down by a suspension just when he was looking good. I hope both succeed but across the games I saw live I felt Spencer had placed himself ahead.

He averaged more tackles in less time on the ground, bit different to saying the other guy tackles more than him...

Gawn improved more this year than Spencer did IMO. Spencer did the things he always does, Gawn showed what he can do with a better fitness base next year.

Nothing against Spencer, he tries hard, but he's third in line for ruck duties in my books.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Still early days but at this stage:

B: Clisby, Frawley, Terlich
HB: Grimes, McDonald, Garland
C: Toumpas, Jones, Viney
HF: Trengove, Clark, Michie
F: Hogan, Dawes, Howe
R: Jamar, Vince, Tyson

I: Watts, Kent, Blease
S: Tapscott

[jnrmac 19,890]

Anyone who thinks Michie won't be in the best 22 is a knucklehead. He wasn't drafted to play at Casey. Fremantle wanted to retain him and he chose Melbourne because of the opportunities we promised. And we promised these opportunities because we rate him. And it's not Neeld and Co rating him, it's Roos and co.

Gold.

This is going in my "save til the end of next year" file.

[Nasher 33,607]

I love how people have Michie in he best 22. What a joke, The kid has played 1 game.

If he isn't best 22 immediately then we've wasted our pick with the trade. Every single line-up listed in this thread so far has at least one NQR in the midfield still. Competition isn't tight at all. If he's even remotely any good he'll walk straight in to the side.

And it wouldn't be a thread on Demonland without someone tossing in "he ain't the messiah".

[Maldonboy38 6,379]

B: GarlandFrawley Strauss

HB: Grimes McDonald Blease

C: Watts N Jones Vince

HF: Trengove Dawes Toumpas

F: Hogan Clark Howe

R: Gawn Viney, Tyson

I: Fitzpatrick Michie Evans

Sub: Barry

Roos loves his team to attack from a stoppage at half back so pace is needed. Grimes and Blease have that pace so I have placed them there. The only problem is they are both notorious turnover specialists. I am hoping Roos' training methods and instilled confidence can improve Grimes and Blease disposal.

I don't have either of Clisby or Terlich in the 22, and would love to fit Clisby in.

The sub is the big one for me. So I have gone for an outside roughie in Barry.

[Nasher 33,607]

He averaged more tackles in less time on the ground, bit different to saying the other guy tackles more than him...

Gawn improved more this year than Spencer did IMO. Spencer did the things he always does, Gawn showed what he can do with a better fitness base next year.

Nothing against Spencer, he tries hard, but he's third in line for ruck duties in my books.

Stu, I agree that Gawn is by far the better prospect long term, but last year he looked such a long way off being capable of running out a game that I just can't believe he'd be able to turn that around in a single pre-season. Gawn being completely and utterly dead on his feet was a big contributor to us nearly losing to Western Bulldogs in that game we won. Not his fault, just reality. Minson *slaughtered* us in that quarter when big Maxy had been pretty good until then.

I'm also making the assumption that Jamar will struggle. If he finds any sort of form he'll push ahead of Spencer.

I don't love Spencer by any means, I just think he's the Steven Bradbury style last man standing in our ruck division. I see him as the only ruckman with the fitness and strength to take on the work at present.

[Guest]

FB: Dunn Frawley Garland

HB: Grimes McDonald Clisby

C: Watts Viney Toumpas

HF: Vince Dawes Trengove

FF: Howe Clark Hogan

RR: Gawn Jones Tyson

I/C: Michie Kent *Freeman *Cross

Next 5: Terlich, Evans, Barry, Jamar, Fitz

[Bitter but optimistic 22,064]

He averaged more tackles in less time on the ground, bit different to saying the other guy tackles more than him...

Gawn improved more this year than Spencer did IMO. Spencer did the things he always does, Gawn showed what he can do with a better fitness base next year.

Nothing against Spencer, he tries hard, but he's third in line for ruck duties in my books.

(Censored offensive remark) We will have to review this difference in 2014 Stuie.

[stuie 7,374]

Stu, I agree that Gawn is by far the better prospect long term, but last year he looked such a long way off being capable of running out a game that I just can't believe he'd be able to turn that around in a single pre-season. Gawn being completely and utterly dead on his feet was a big contributor to us nearly losing to Western Bulldogs in that game we won. Not his fault, just reality. Minson *slaughtered* us in that quarter when big Maxy had been pretty good until then.

I'm also making the assumption that Jamar will struggle. If he finds any sort of form he'll push ahead of Spencer.

I don't love Spencer by any means, I just think he's the Steven Bradbury style last man standing in our ruck division. I see him as the only ruckman with the fitness and strength to take on the work at present.

Yeah, I might be putting too many hopes on one preseason, but I think he can do it. Enough to be first choice ruck anyway.

[jnrmac 19,890]

If he isn't best 22 immediately then we've wasted our pick with the trade. Every single line-up listed in this thread so far has at least one NQR in the midfield still. Competition isn't tight at all. If he's even remotely any good he'll walk straight in to the side.

And it wouldn't be a thread on Demonland without someone tossing in "he ain't the messiah".

You're kidding with that statement right?

Sellar was pick 54 same as michie - hardly in our best 22. Josh Tynan was pick 52, hasnt played a game. Troy Davis was pick 50. Jetta was 51, Fitzpatrick was 50.

Pick 54 is a lottery at best. He might well be good. I sure as hell hope he is. My point if you have missed it is that for people to say he is in our best 22 at the moment is a complete joke.

[jacey 333]

Garland Frawley Terlich

Clisby McDonald Grimes

Watts Tyson Vince

Trengove Dawes Toumpas

Hogan Clark Howe

Gawn Viney Jones

Int:

Jamar, Kent, Michie

Sub: Anyone

Clisby is a question mark but is front runners to the position. He is my first pick out of the rest.

Watts training as a mid/wing. Hoping he can get a tank and use his skills.

Trengove and Toumpas listed as fwd in name only. ie genuine mids who rotate thru forward line.

Gawn my choice of first ruck.

Still think Jamar has a role to play but Fitspatrick if you want to go more mobile.

Kent and Michie to play more mid time and rotate thru fwd line.

I think thats a pretty solid team. Still more potential then output but feeling better about the team then last year.

[P-man 13,366]

You're kidding with that statement right?

Sellar was pick 54 same as michie - hardly in our best 22. Josh Tynan was pick 52, hasnt played a game. Troy Davis was pick 50. Jetta was 51, Fitzpatrick was 50.

Pick 54 is a lottery at best. He might well be good. I sure as hell hope he is. My point if you have missed it is that for people to say he is in our best 22 at the moment is a complete joke.

Think about what you're saying. Why do you think Roos has drafted Michie? To play in the magoos?

A player who has been in the system three years is hardly a lottery. We know what sort of player he is. It is his foot injury that has kept him out, that is the bigger lottery if anything,

Your sole reason for not including him seems to rest on his draft number. What about forgetting where he was drafted originally and looking at the qualities he actually brings as an inside player. Why do you think Fremantle fans are so sorry to see him go? Why does pretty much everyone in the AFL world consider him to be a boost to the midfield? What you are saying makes no sense.

[DeeSpencer 24,701]

Stu, I agree that Gawn is by far the better prospect long term, but last year he looked such a long way off being capable of running out a game that I just can't believe he'd be able to turn that around in a single pre-season. Gawn being completely and utterly dead on his feet was a big contributor to us nearly losing to Western Bulldogs in that game we won. Not his fault, just reality. Minson *slaughtered* us in that quarter when big Maxy had been pretty good until then.

I'm also making the assumption that Jamar will struggle. If he finds any sort of form he'll push ahead of Spencer.

I don't love Spencer by any means, I just think he's the Steven Bradbury style last man standing in our ruck division. I see him as the only ruckman with the fitness and strength to take on the work at present.

Gawn hasn't done a preseason yet. Remember he did a serious hamstring injury last preseason that required a slow rehab and then when he did come back he was playing a lot of time at Casey forward and in the AFL forward. They deliberately nursed him in to the season and Minson got hold of him in that last quarter. But again Gawn had Minson covered for the first 3/4. It was also a wet night with lots of stoppages and Minson is probably the hardest running ruck in the league. He powers up and down the ground and then wrestles like heck at a stoppage. Gawn then competing very well against Pyke and Mumford and against Dawson Simpson in the wet in Geelong without tiring.

[DeeSpencer 24,701]

Bolded = certainties in my opinion

FB: Clisby Frawley Garland
HB: Terlich McDonald Grimes
C: Watts Jones Vince

HF: Trengove Dawes Howe

FF: Byrnes Clark Hogan

Foll: Gawn Viney McKenzie

Int: Tyson Michie Toumpas

S: Kent

One thing Roos has traditionally done is when players came to Sydney he played them and stuck with them through some form dips. Josh Kennedy's first half a season was mediocre at best. His second half had him on target for one of the better mids in he comp. I expect Roos will stick with Michie and Tyson and to be honest on talent I think it wont be much of a question anyway. In the same way I expect him to stick with Watts for a long time as he's changing positions.

The counter to that is young guys like Kent, Toumpas and our draft picks this year wont necessarily see a lot of playing time if the impression is they have things to work on in the reserves first. Again I think we a preseason improving their bodies that Toumpas and Kent both made enough ground through the 2013 season to start in 2014.

Backline: 3 talls pretty obvious. Grimes a lock for HBF I feel. The other small defender spots are up for grabs. I hope Roos goes away from the conservative selection of Lynden Dunn to sit in a back pocket on some semi-dangerous forward and offer not a lot else. Time to be more aggressive and back in Terlich and Clisby and whoever else we have. It highlights the need for that 190cm versatile player to complement Garland (how good would 2 Garland's be - one to attack one to lock down defend) but at the moment we don't have that player. Neither Clisby and Terlich are perfect but they play with the right attitude. Go for the ball, tackle hard, attack the game. Terlich should be able to improve his defensive game and Clisby might always be a bit small but he plays with good spirit.

Midfield: Even with our additions our midfield isn't flush so really it's about picking all that we have and letting them find roles and positions within the rotation. Evans and Matt Jones are probably the only legitimate mids we have that I've left out but again I expect them to pressure for spots - it's unlikely everyone will be fit all the time and these two both have the ability to rotate to half back as well so look out for them. I'm still on the McKenzie bandwagon and I'm not going to explain why I think Roos will like McKenzie for the 100th time or why I like McKenzie.

Forwards: Hogan, Dawes. Obvious. Mitch Clark as the second ruck to give us maximum run in the midfield and also to allow him to show his around the ground talent is pretty obvious to me as well. Wouldn't be a surprise to see him not do that role early though and toss up between a second ruck (Jamar) or Fitzy but I don't want to play them as well as Hogan and Dawes, it's too tall. Other forwards are hard - not the use of midfielders with class and good hands - Trengove, Michie as forwards. Expect to see Evans, Vince, Watts, Toumpas, Viney all play half forward as well. That's the way rotation works. So really I'm left with 2 guys who will play majority forward and it's Howe and Byrnes with Kent the sub as a forward/midfield type. Howe is pretty obvious. With some solid coaching he can be the goal kicking weapon who can play full forward, half forward and on the wing. But he needs improvement. I'm a Byrnes fan and went with him in the team instead of Kent or another mid because mature bodies and fitness will be important in Roos' plan. He can win the ball at a contest, he can chase and tackle and he showed some ability to find and use the ball in space (and kick a load of points)! It's up to Kent and Blease to tip him out.

Edited October 20, 2013 by the master

[Hannibal 5,814]

You're kidding with that statement right?

Sellar was pick 54 same as michie - hardly in our best 22. Josh Tynan was pick 52, hasnt played a game. Troy Davis was pick 50. Jetta was 51, Fitzpatrick was 50.

Pick 54 is a lottery at best. He might well be good. I sure as hell hope he is. My point if you have missed it is that for people to say he is in our best 22 at the moment is a complete joke.

Sellar was delisted by his club.

Tynan has been delisted by his club.

Davis has been delisted by his club.

Jetta isn't good enough.

Michie was a wanted player by his club. His club was one of this year's grand finalists. Every Freo supporter on the web rates him. He won his WAFL best and fairest from 16 games and a limited preseason. Melbourne made a strong pitch because they rate him.

We have the worst midfield in 100 years.

And you think it's a joke that he's considered best 22 ?

Dumber than I thought. And I've given you plenty of consideration.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Anyone who thinks Michie won't be in the best 22 is a knucklehead. He wasn't drafted to play at Casey. Fremantle wanted to retain him and he chose Melbourne because of the opportunities we promised. And we promised these opportunities because we rate him. And it's not Neeld and Co rating him, it's Roos and co.

you might as well have just said anyone who is not me is a knucklehead

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

And you think it's a joke that he's considered best 22 ?

Dumber than I thought. And I've given you plenty of consideration.

i really am curious now, who exactly do you think you are to condescend over everyone else with a sense of grandiosity bestowed only by you? [censored]

[InVINCEable 358]

Round 1.

Backs: Tom McDonald, James Frawley, Lynden Dunn

Half backs: Dean Terlich, Colin Garland, Jack Grimes

Midfield: *Nathan Freeman, Jack Trengove, Bernie Vince

Half forward: Jimmy Toumpas (swapping with Freeman), Mitch Clark, Jack Watts

Forward: Jeremy Howe, Chris Dawes, Jesse Hogan

Followers: Mark Jamar, Jack Viney, Nathan Jones

I/C: Viv Michie, Dom Tyson, Jack Fitzpatrick

Sub: Dean Kent

Emergencies: Max Gawn, Rory Taggert, Matt Jones

Get some games into Dom Barry, Michael Evans, Rory Taggert and Max Gawn.

[InVINCEable 358]

Bolded = certainties in my opinion

FB: Clisby Frawley Garland

HB: Terlich McDonald Grimes

C: Watts Jones Vince

HF: Trengove Dawes Howe

FF: Byrnes Clark Hogan

Foll: Gawn Viney McKenzie

Int: Tyson Michie Toumpas

S: Kent

One thing Roos has traditionally done is when players came to Sydney he played them and stuck with them through some form dips. Josh Kennedy's first half a season was mediocre at best. His second half had him on target for one of the better mids in he comp. I expect Roos will stick with Michie and Tyson and to be honest on talent I think it wont be much of a question anyway. In the same way I expect him to stick with Watts for a long time as he's changing positions.

The counter to that is young guys like Kent, Toumpas and our draft picks this year wont necessarily see a lot of playing time if the impression is they have things to work on in the reserves first. Again I think we a preseason improving their bodies that Toumpas and Kent both made enough ground through the 2013 season to start in 2014.

Backline: 3 talls pretty obvious. Grimes a lock for HBF I feel. The other small defender spots are up for grabs. I hope Roos goes away from the conservative selection of Lynden Dunn to sit in a back pocket on some semi-dangerous forward and offer not a lot else. Time to be more aggressive and back in Terlich and Clisby and whoever else we have. It highlights the need for that 190cm versatile player to complement Garland (how good would 2 Garland's be - one to attack one to lock down defend) but at the moment we don't have that player. Neither Clisby and Terlich are perfect but they play with the right attitude. Go for the ball, tackle hard, attack the game. Terlich should be able to improve his defensive game and Clisby might always be a bit small but he plays with good spirit.

Midfield: Even with our additions our midfield isn't flush so really it's about picking all that we have and letting them find roles and positions within the rotation. Evans and Matt Jones are probably the only legitimate mids we have that I've left out but again I expect them to pressure for spots - it's unlikely everyone will be fit all the time and these two both have the ability to rotate to half back as well so look out for them. I'm still on the McKenzie bandwagon and I'm not going to explain why I think Roos will like McKenzie for the 100th time or why I like McKenzie.

Forwards: Hogan, Dawes. Obvious. Mitch Clark as the second ruck to give us maximum run in the midfield and also to allow him to show his around the ground talent is pretty obvious to me as well. Wouldn't be a surprise to see him not do that role early though and toss up between a second ruck (Jamar) or Fitzy but I don't want to play them as well as Hogan and Dawes, it's too tall. Other forwards are hard - not the use of midfielders with class and good hands - Trengove, Michie as forwards. Expect to see Evans, Vince, Watts, Toumpas, Viney all play half forward as well. That's the way rotation works. So really I'm left with 2 guys who will play majority forward and it's Howe and Byrnes with Kent the sub as a forward/midfield type. Howe is pretty obvious. With some solid coaching he can be the goal kicking weapon who can play full forward, half forward and on the wing. But he needs improvement. I'm a Byrnes fan and went with him in the team instead of Kent or another mid because mature bodies and fitness will be important in Roos' plan. He can win the ball at a contest, he can chase and tackle and he showed some ability to find and use the ball in space (and kick a load of points)! It's up to Kent and Blease to tip him out.

Byrnes has been terrible this year in his opportunities for us, and i didn't see him do any of those things that you said he did.