Some "Wines" mature early!

[jackaub 1,402]

TELL US SOMETHING WE DONT KNOW!! FFS what is the point of stewing over something we cant change now! You keep flogging yourself over the past decision on us not picking Wines. Do you get such great pleasure out of this? time to get some reality check ane move on!!

The trouble is Dazzle MFC keep bloody well doing it thats the issue dont you get it!!!!Just like martin

[jackaub 1,402]

Personally I'd settle for the second best player available at every pick that we have. That way we'd always get decent quality players in which to build a side as well as our share of quality.

Oh and Wines was good last night. But hardly amazing. His second goal out of the pack impressed me a lot. He also has much better skills than the draft guys gave him credit for...or they are standing up to AFL pressure much better than many would have thought. But it's all irrelevant.

I'm also of the belief than Sam Mayes is >>>>> than Wines and Toumpas. But I don't have a thread for that yet.

Hey Ben You are so out of your depth the site was better when you went away

[jackaub 1,402]

Hindsight, the favourite pastime of Demonland.

Similar to likes of Nat Fyfe, we weren't the only ones to overlook Wines. It's a situation where we can only give credit to their respective teams recruiting decisions. But comparisons after one season are premature and will only give a distorted result, particularly considering Toumpas was recovering from an injury when drafted.

If we've learned anything from the past few seasons, it's that it's been our development that has let us down. It doesn't matter where a player has been picked in the draft, they generally don't develop themselves.

Let's revisit this after a season or two under Roos and see where we stand.

The trouble is Jack people on here make the call so hindsight is not needed

[jackaub 1,402]

This from a poster whose name asks us to bring back possibly the softest player Melbourne's had in our 7 year debacle.

Hey Titan titan _uranus

[jackaub 1,402]

I think the moot point lies around the frustration of more 'development' players, when an 'impact' player was needed this year.

The scars of Morton, Gysberts, Cook, et al, still run deep.

It's a shame DD36 that you don't have the capacity to debate and squeal for a thread to be deleted because it doesn't suit you.

I still maintain, to this day, that Jimmy T was a puzzling pick.

Puzzling doesnt even begin to explain it

[jackaub 1,402]

Puzzling is abit harsh, i think there were 18 recruiters that rated Toumpas as a top 3 pick, Wines was a top 10 pick, was he the right pick for the mfc? possibly not, Wines and Viney would have set up the engine room for the next decade, but we have Toumpas and he has shown good signs that he will be a quality player for us, so i'm not too unhappy

it's not impossible that at some point we might lure Wines back anyway.

Are you in the real world?

[jackaub 1,402]

You're still completely off it.

Your argument is that Wines is better because he can play finals.

How do you know that Toumpas can't? Because you didn't like him in the home and away? That's a horrendously biased and ridiculous argument. Firstly, Toumpas played the year in a bottom 2 side. Of course he's not going to look like he would play well in finals football, but you wouldn't know until it happens. Moreover, there's no rule that says poor in home and away = poor in finals. Look at Nick Duigan right now. Immense third quarter for Carlton despite playing a grand total of two games all year.

Toumpas has never played a final. Until he does, and sucks, you cannot use Wines' finals form to argue he is better than Toumpas.

Your arguments are pathetic.

No Titan he is saying that Wines is a better pick that Toumpas Dont you get it I apologise I know you are a lil slow

[titan_uranus 22,458]

No Titan he is saying that Wines is a better pick that Toumpas Dont you get it I apologise I know you are a lil slow

Yes, I understand his argument.

His support for his argument is that Wines played well in a final.

That argument is ridiculous, which is what I posted above.

Don't you get it? I apologise I know you are a little slow.

[jackaub 1,402]

Who would have and why would they overrule T viney re Wines I dont understand

[jumbo returns 6,493]

Who would have and why would they overrule T viney re Wines I dont understand

Who overruled it? Are you sure about that?

If so, shocking decision.

[Macca 16,173]

A couple on this thread who are arguing strongly that we should have picked Wines, actually voted for Toumpas in this poll.

Poll - Wines or Toumpas

You cannot change what you thought at the time.

[Jack Jack 415]

The trouble is Jack people on here make the call so hindsight is not needed

I was listening to a recruiter on the radio yesterday, he was talking about how they evaluate players. One of the methods of separating players was to project how they saw each player in 3-5 years time. We haven't even come close to giving Toumpas that sort of grace, particularly considering he was coming off a limited preseason due to injury and are comparing him to a ready made player. At this stage we've not considered the merits of their scope for improvement.

But in reference to the early calls for Wines, at the time I remember a lot of talk about how he was good mates with Viney and wanted to play for the Dees. I wonder how many people actually saw both players in action, and didn't just base their choice on some sort of romantic notion of getting in Wines because he's a highly rated player, likes the Dees and is Viney's best mate.

There's the possibility we did get it wrong, but it's too early to call at this stage.

[jumbo returns 6,493]

A couple on this thread who are arguing strongly that we should have picked Wines, actually voted for Toumpas in this poll.

Poll - Wines or Toumpas

You cannot change what you thought at the time.

I'm a swinging voter

[monoccular 16,135]

Some Wines mature exceedingly well and quickly! Just like the "Ollie" variety!

Particularly in cut and trust "Finals" Pressure!

Named in BEST, 2 Crunch goals,

An irresistable package!

Hnmmmm, not a bad player!

Point?

Oh no. News flash. Players picked after our picks played well in finals and our picks didn't!!!!! End of the world.

It is a bit like saying the draw isn't fair because, unlike Hawthorn who only play teams below them on the leader, we get stuck playing against only those above us. Unfair, she cried!!

Well sure as hell had we picked him up he wouldn't have done what he did last night - but maybe Toumpass, in a finals team with good men around him could have done something special too.

Impossible to compare their abilities and futures after one season with one playing finals and one in the worst performing AFL team in decades if not ever.

I agree with PJ - point?? Perhaps you are suggesting that we always select poor players, rather than we don't provide the environment that allows or rather demands of them to develop and perform to the best of their abilities.

If Paul Roos is able to do one thing, I hope it will be to instil into each and every player on our list a sense of pride in themselves and their team, and mutual respect and confidence in each and every one of their teammates, or at least in those who really want to continue to play for MFC and be selected in the 22.

Edited September 9, 2013 by monoccular

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Are we going to do this every time we don't pick the best player in the draft?

Its all about development and at the moment we can't do that.

[beelzebub 22,225]

I'm a swinging voter

Weissmuller....is that you ???

[CatFishPig 434]

I still hope that Wines could end up a Demon.. I'm certainly not ruling it out until he re-signs with Port.

That 400k a year contract extension put in front of him still hasn't had ink put on it as yet. I think that says a bit.

I've heard from a few sources close to him he had always thought he would return to VIC. A finals win like the weekends might change things, who really knows.

[CatFishPig 434]

Would you give port pick 2 for him? Or pick 3 if we received picks 1 & 3 with PP.

[Sambo06 222]

LOL!!!! What a load of garbage all you Keyboard Warriors!! Has any of you ever set foot an a Footy oval??? Let it be Pulease!!!! Admins, end this thread.

[jumbo returns 6,493]

Would you give port pick 2 for him? Or pick 3 if we received picks 1 & 3 with PP.

Yep.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Would you give port pick 2 for him? Or pick 3 if we received picks 1 & 3 with PP.

Youd be a bit silly not to look at that . Very appealing esp if we have the PP still up sleeve.

[old dee 22,927]

Are we going to do this every time we don't pick the best player in the draft?

Its all about development and at the moment we can't do that.

Sorry I don't agree with you.

If you pick poorly there is no amount of development that will turn a Cook or Gysberts into a good player.

Our biggest problem over the last decade has been poor selection.

It is very difficult to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

[titan_uranus 22,458]

Sorry I don't agree with you.

If you pick poorly there is no amount of development that will turn a Cook or Gysberts into a good player.

Our biggest problem over the last decade has been poor selection.

It is very difficult to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

You're making it sound like we drafted 14 year olds who'd never played football before.

I completely agree that we erred in selecting both of them, but to have talent that was more worthy of picks in the 20s or 30s become such poor players, such that after 2 seasons Cook's AFL career was over whilst in Gysberts' 4th season he's failed to get a single senior game, says a lot about how poorly we developed the talent that was clearly there in their juniors.

[Mac7 309]

Scott Pendlebury struggled to break into the Collingwood side playing only 9 games and averaging 13 disposals in his first year.

Dane Swan managed just 16 games in his first 2 years, averaged less than 12 disposals.

Gary Ablett played 12 games in his first year for an average of 8 disposals per game.

Jobe Watson played only 13 games in his first 3 years, averaging only 11 disposals.

My point? RELAX and let him develop!!

[old dee 22,927]

You're making it sound like we drafted 14 year olds who'd never played football before.

I completely agree that we erred in selecting both of them, but to have talent that was more worthy of picks in the 20s or 30s become such poor players, such that after 2 seasons Cook's AFL career was over whilst in Gysberts' 4th season he's failed to get a single senior game, says a lot about how poorly we developed the talent that was clearly there in their juniors.

Both these guys were taken well ahead of when the "experts" predicted.

We kept trying to pick diamonds from amongst the gravel.

To do that you have to be very good as a recruiter.

Clearly we were not that clever