Our players are killing our club

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

The result being our list is now brain dead...very few of this group will be the footballers they hoped to be.

melodramatic rubbish

[old dee 22,980]

I am not sure why some continually blame the players.

We have players who are not good enough. That is not their fault. Some have no skill. They never will have. They need to be moved on and replaced.

People need to stop expecting a side that is not good enough to win. It just doesn't happen.

The list needs to be improved with hard, quick, talented players, then properly developed and coached properly. It is not impossible and big inroads can be made in one off season.

I agree with you Redleg I have been saying for two years that the players are simply not good enough.

Where we disagree is the time that will be need to repair the list, it has taken a lot of effort over six years to get our list to the current level.

It is going to take 3 - 5 years to be respected and have a team that wins more games than it loses.

IMO we are in for another two seasons of hell at the bottom of the ladder before we see noticeable improvement.

Not sure I have the stamina to go the distance.

[Guest]

the laziness was already there,,, robbo refusing to keep his feet, & chase... yze never fit enough to be a real midfielder, so he was put in the pocket, with runs thru the middle. then he complained he wasn't fit enough to run thru the mids, but he was bored in the pocket when the ball wasn't there.

bruce getting cheap kicks in the back pocket from the kickouts... where do you think morton learnt it.

the culture was crap, but we had talent,, lazy talent that got us wins... the tail was wagging the dog & the dog patted it, except for the dogs work horses... they didn't get patted.

the workhorses ended up at richmond, or finished. or at the swans.

we are still paying for the crap that started mid nineties somewhere, around the time we had all the injuries & players were all sent out riding bikes instead of training. it (the lazy culture) got worse after around 2003ish. & grew & grew...until the wheels fully fell off in 2007.

all the kings Horses, & all the kings Men, haven't been able to figure it out since.

Yep. And the culture thrived in the last few years. Constant pantsings. Players walking out. Projected 2 million dollar losses. Our CEO describing us as a liability to the AFL and it's stakeholders. What would have happened had MN stayed on and we were wound up? What then? We build a statue of him outside the 'G?

Curse that Frank Spencer style bungler. His finals appearances and 50% winning percentage is a historical stain that this club will never live down.

PS Neale got rid of the bikes. Read Ox's and Lyon's biographies

[Redleg 38,003]

Redleg you can see it with your own eyes just like we can. We have many who don't run to space, chase, harass, give second options, help teamates out etc. Poor skills don't help either.

Watch Harry O in the game against the Dorks. He would get the ball, explode for three or 4 paces taking the game on, give the ball off and run hard to create another option often receiving it back and driving it into the fwd 50.

You can't tell me our players do that. Some don't try, some are too scared to try, some try but don't have the skills. Listen to any commentators about Saturdays game. Watch the replay and tell me you are happy with the effort our players showed. They give the ball off and stop - job done.

Thats why we need on field leaders. Our experiment hasn't worked with rodan and byrne but its obvious why they were recruited. We are so lacking in leadership its a joke.

Port have done it, The Dogs look like they have done it. brisbane look like they have done it. Our pea hearts need a flogging.

I agree we have no leadership.

I also think we have no confidence in winning, or their fellow players.

I think we raised an effort, got some bad umpiring decisions, saw Freo kick a few quick goals and then gave up.

We need to get rid of players who are not good enough or committed and replace them with players who are.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Fair dinkum dee-luded. Give it up already.

You mean well but this and the BS about Daniher 'destroying' the club is just absolute foolishness.

I'm Not saying daniher destroyed the club, I'm saying daniher could have played hard ball with the club but did Not. he could have demanded he got more support from the administrations & from the players, & from the AFL... but he did not...

after that time the club simply played safe & entertaining footy, with wins where they came.. this set the tone for a downward trend.

Once the game went into real footy dept spend, & sports science, we were well and truly left behind the packs.

neil daniher just went into enjoying footy.... & seeing out time. the intensity of melbourne gradually dropped away year on year.

Green bruce, Johnstone, White, Jolly, Robbo, Yze, Davey, all should have n=been better than they were... we had talent at the club from around the late 90's but failed to turn them into real Pro's...

not to mention the kids since 2003.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,593]

I am not sure why some continually blame the players.

We have players who are not good enough. That is not their fault. Some have no skill. They never will have. They need to be moved on and replaced.

People need to stop expecting a side that is not good enough to win. It just doesn't happen.

The list needs to be improved with hard, quick, talented players, then properly developed and coached properly. It is not impossible and big inroads can be made in one off season.

What about the players who refuse to run until they puke and who choose not to put their all in physically every second they're on the ground (whether consciously or subconsciously). Talent is one thing but effort is another which can be executed regardless of talent.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Yep. And the culture thrived in the last few years. Constant pantsings. Players walking out. Projected 2 million dollar losses. Our CEO describing us as a liability to the AFL and it's stakeholders. What would have happened had MN stayed on and we were wound up? What then? We build a statue of him outside the 'G?

Curse that Frank Spencer style bungler. His finals appearances and 50% winning percentage is a historical stain that this club will never live down.

PS Neale got rid of the bikes. Read Ox's and Lyon's biographies

the culture has continued to worsen after poor handling of the methods of list rebuilding, after all & sundry figured out what was going on & got dirty about it...

but Neeld has taken an axe to the bad attitudes but cost himself in the meantime... BUT he has cracked that rotten Egg, & its leaking its foul contents. now is not the time to back off from the cleanup.

he was on the right track even if not fully successful.

But we have a start on the issue a head start to fix the cancer.

[dee-luded 2,958]

What would have happened had MN stayed on and we were wound up? What then? We build a statue of him outside the 'G?

Curse that Frank Spencer style bungler. His finals appearances and 50% winning percentage is a historical stain that this club will never live down.

all your saying here is you don't have the spine for it..

& don't really understand the problem that has haunted this club since the mid 60's.

there is a reason why Percy brought Checker over from the Tiges.

we are at that same corner once again.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,593]

.

the laziness was already there,,, robbo refusing to keep his feet, & chase... yze never fit enough to be a real midfielder, so he was put in the pocket, with runs thru the middle. then he complained he wasn't fit enough to run thru the mids, but he was bored in the pocket when the ball wasn't there.

bruce getting cheap kicks in the back pocket from the kickouts... where do you think morton learnt it.

the culture was crap, but we had talent,, lazy talent that got us wins... the tail was wagging the dog & the dog patted it, except for the dogs work horses... they didn't get patted.

the workhorses ended up at richmond, or finished. or at the swans.

we are still paying for the crap that started mid nineties somewhere, around the time we had all the injuries & players were all sent out riding bikes instead of training. it (the lazy culture) got worse after around 2003ish. & grew & grew...until the wheels fully fell off in 2007.

all the kings Horses, & all the kings Men, haven't been able to figure it out since.

Agree 100% DL - the crap the senior players were allowed to get away with in Danihers latter years (in particular White, Yze, Robbo, Bruce & Green edit: and Johnstone, Davey etc as you pointed out) set the standard for where this club is currently at. Edited August 19, 2013 by Dr. Gonzo

[dee-luded 2,958]

.

Agree 100% DL - the crap the senior players were allowed to get away with in Danihers latter years (in particular White, Yze, Robbo, Bruce & Green) set the standard for where this club is currently at.

they ended up creating two tier system, where the elite were lazy, & the rest were workers... & the workers were harangued by the supporters when things went poorly.

THIS, is the start of a worsening culture & the start of real laziness & poor fitness compared to the rest of the Comp. we were up with the compo in fitness until around 2004 05ish & finally the pies & others went into footy dept spend & sports science, altitude chambers etc...

even the lions were have inf fluid drips at halftime.

we are amateurs in a Pro game. still waking up.

[jnrmac 19,310]

I'm Not saying daniher destroyed the club, I'm saying daniher could have played hard ball with the club but did Not. he could have demanded he got more support from the administrations & from the players, & from the AFL... but he did not...

after that time the club simply played safe & entertaining footy, with wins where they came.. this set the tone for a downward trend.

Once the game went into real footy dept spend, & sports science, we were well and truly left behind the packs.

neil daniher just went into enjoying footy.... & seeing out time. the intensity of melbourne gradually dropped away year on year.

Green bruce, Johnstone, White, Jolly, Robbo, Yze, Davey, all should have n=been better than they were... we had talent at the club from around the late 90's but failed to turn them into real Pro's...

not to mention the kids since 2003.

Daniher did a fantastic job with our club given his limited resources. Yes he played favourites who got games they didn't deserve but in his defence he had to keep us competitive because we were desperate for money. Gardner kept telling is we were making profits but it was a lie. We were going down the gurgler. How embarrassing our facilities in 2003. Danihers fault? clearly no.

Daniher gets bagged constantly here and its unjustified.

Our players today have no excuses IMO. First class facilities. Everything they could possibly want in terms of facilities. ooohh bit we don't like the CEO or the football manager. good grief its pathetic.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,593]

Daniher did a fantastic job with our club given his limited resources. Yes he played favourites who got games they didn't deserve but in his defence he had to keep us competitive because we were desperate for money. Gardner kept telling is we were making profits but it was a lie. We were going down the gurgler. How embarrassing our facilities in 2003. Danihers fault? clearly no.

Daniher gets bagged constantly here and its unjustified.

Our players today have no excuses IMO. First class facilities. Everything they could possibly want in terms of facilities. ooohh bit we don't like the CEO or the football manager. good grief its pathetic.

What you say is correct but Daniher also has to wear the legacy of playing favourites and refusing to push them out of their comfort zones as well as being a terrible game day coach with no plan B.

[KLV 1,677]

Well let's see WYL...

Bailey's gone, Schwab is gone, McLardy is gone, Stynes is gone, Gysberts is gone, Martin is gone, Green is gone, Rivers is gone, Petterd is gone, Moloney is gone, Maric is gone, Jurrah is gone, Bate is gone, and Moloney is gone.

Tell me again how much better we are now?

Don't forget Morton!

[Hero1 74]

Don't worry about this nasty little person. Anyone who calls himself or herself tighten your anus does not deserve credibility.

[Guest]

all your saying here is you don't have the spine for it..

& don't really understand the problem that has haunted this club since the mid 60's.

there is a reason why Percy brought Checker over from the Tiges.

we are at that same corner once again.

So I guess Peter Jackson is a spineless wimp? His years at Essendon during grand finals and a premiership count for naught compared to Mark Neeld and his 15% winning percentage.

Maybe there comes a time when you just have to admit you are wrong and everyone else isn't misguided, weak etc.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,537]

Don't worry about this nasty little person. Anyone who calls himself or herself tighten your anus does not deserve credibility.

I'm not entering the debate here but I think the above is, on most occasions, sound advice.

[Hero1 74]

Five warning points! I'm such a naughty boy!

[dee-luded 2,958]

Daniher did a fantastic job with our club given his limited resources. Yes he played favourites who got games they didn't deserve but in his defence he had to keep us competitive because we were desperate for money. Gardner kept telling is we were making profits but it was a lie. We were going down the gurgler. How embarrassing our facilities in 2003. Danihers fault? clearly no.

Daniher gets bagged constantly here and its unjustified.

Our players today have no excuses IMO. First class facilities. Everything they could possibly want in terms of facilities. ooohh bit we don't like the CEO or the football manager. good grief its pathetic.

the object is Not to bag Daniher,,, but to get people to admit that it not Baileys fault, or Neelds fault, or Balmes fault,,,, but its OUR Faults.

.... we are the ones who sit back when things are Half OK,,, & look down on the plebs in the southern stand & say, 'Wonder what the rest of the worlds Doing' !!!

well for starters, they're sharing Premiership cups for one thing.

this is the basis of 'Soft Culture', right there.

[Sir Why You Little 34,818]

I'm not entering the debate here but I think the above is, on most occasions, sound advice.

Hahahahahaha!!

Comment of the year thus far...

[dee-luded 2,958]

So I guess Peter Jackson is a spineless wimp? His years at Essendon during grand finals and a premiership count for naught compared to Mark Neeld and his 15% winning percentage.

Maybe there comes a time when you just have to admit you are wrong and everyone else isn't misguided, weak etc.

put up an argument CB flaubert... prove what I've said is wrong, instead of getting precious &defensive for No reason.

for the record I think PJ is on the money... but thats got nothing to do with what Neeld was attempting to do... Neeld was doing the dirtiest most difficult job in australian sport, with courage & dignity...

... at least he had the Guts to take it on, & try to do it thoroughly. without shortcuts, like pampering the problem kids to their faces & backstabbing them when they're out of earshot.

.. we still have a major cultural issue of softness thats inherent in the MCC & the Northern stand... its full of idol worshippers & too much kindness to its peril,, for a combative contact sport.

.... cricket is easier its not contact...

we have to stop worshiping Kids before their even shaving... for starters.

[Sir Why You Little 34,818]

put up an argument CB flaubert... prove what I've said is wrong, instead of getting precious &defensive for No reason.

for the record I think PJ is on the money... but thats got nothing to do with what Neeld was attempting to do... Neeld was doing the dirtiest most difficult job in australian sport, with courage & dignity...

... at least he had the Guts to take it on, & try to do it thoroughly. without shortcuts, like pampering the problem kids to their faces & backstabbing them when they're out of earshot.

.. we still have a major cultural issue of softness thats inherent in the MCC & the Northern stand... its full of idol worshippers & too much kindness to its peril,, for a combative contact sport.

.... cricket is easier its not contact...

we have to stop worshiping Kids before their even shaving... for starters.

You always believe this is the Northern Stand DL, as in the source of the rot....I don't fully agree with that for one large reason...Those sitting in the Northern Stand would well know that a tough firing MFC fills the 100,000 seats of the MCG along with the "Big 4"

There is no rationale to keep the MFC retarded...The culture comes from elsewhere.

Neeld did a terrible job btw...there is no other way to describe it...i just wish it had ocured after the Round 2 Essendrug game, there was no return after that night.

[Hero1 74]

The age of the players is not the problem. Look at Viney. Read the norm smith biography. Many of the players in the highly successful teams that won premierships for MFC were VERY young. It's about having something to play for and a passion for the team. Not a selfish desire for fame or money. Abolish ego. Build a culture of a top four team, playing for the team, for each other, for the supporters.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

They are killing us because they are so Bad as a team.

But don't tell them that as they will get upset as they are all too fragile or so I been told.

LOL Fragile AFL players, I really heard it all now.

Someone should tell them to all HTFU, as they are Big Boys now and its time to leave their Mums behind.

[titan_uranus 22,731]

Don't worry about this nasty little person. Anyone who calls himself or herself tighten your anus does not deserve credibility.

I'm sorry, maybe you'd care to quote something I said and explain your issue with it?

[dee-luded 2,958]

You always believe this is the Northern Stand DL, as in the source of the rot....I don't fully agree with that for one large reason...Those sitting in the Northern Stand would well know that a tough firing MFC fills the 100,000 seats of the MCG along with the "Big 4"

There is no rationale to keep the MFC retarded...The culture comes from elsewhere.

Neeld did a terrible job btw...there is no other way to describe it...i just wish it had ocured after the Round 2 Essendrug game, there was no return after that night.

yep thats where it starts from WYL... its called privilege...

this is where loosely the cart before the horse attitude starts... an over abundance of optimism. and something of a condescending feel about people who have to get their hands dirty to earn. we continually pump up our kids with Pre Adualation... since the time of Smithy finished, or was finished Up.

our players soon lose the hunger of the clubs like North, or the Bombers, Pies, Cats or Hawks... & now the Tigers are on the Up as well.

You tell me WYL, why it is, that all the Victorian clubs who are based away from the 'G', have all become power clubs with strong Dynasties, gone up & back down while we have just managed to tread water??? just.

tell me what it is that makes these clubs so fierce in footy & we are just so gentile?