I am reading this from O/S. It seems extraudinary that the media are saying Essendope are sweet but WJ & Redleg are almost laughing.

Is it this cut and dried??

I am reading this from O/S. It seems extraudinary that the media are saying Essendope are sweet but WJ & Redleg are almost laughing.

Is it this cut and dried??

Your guess is as good as mine wyl.

Can smarter minds than mine tell me what hird and efc end game is here?

If the judge has started no matter the outcome ASADA can start again, what's the point?

Dons case is the information was collected illegally so current Notices are void and the consequences of the issuing of any new Notices is that the Club could be destroyed and the players could be banned for a long period so the Court should use it's discretionary powers to issue a permanent injunction against ASADA being allowed to issue any fresh Notices or taking any further action against them.

Appropriate that Neil Young is representing Essendon - after all he's seen the needle and the damage done

Neil has been inspired to re- release his classic, inspired by his good friend James. I've managed to have a listen and it goes something like this....

I caught you knocking the laboratory door

" I love you Danky, can I have some more"

Oooh, oooh the damage done.

You hit the chateau and you lost your tan

We' ll make you brown before you take the stand

Gone, gone, the damage done.

Jim brought the bong, and so I brought some cans.

I know that some of u won't understand.

Grows, hair to stop his ears from sticking out!

I've seen the needle and the games you've won

A little jab of it for everyone

The Bombers epitaph is set in stone!

Dons case is the information was collected illegally so current Notices are void and the consequences of the issuing of any new Notices is that the Club could be destroyed and the players could be banned for a long period so the Court should use it's discretionary powers to issue a permanent injunction against ASADA being allowed to issue any fresh Notices or taking any further action against them.

and the Media are presenting this as a strong case??

If this case gets up...Just jab away. Take anything!!

It's disgraceful. ASADA must rip them apart

The media exists to sell it's product and nothing more.

The ruling will be based on all evidence, not on sound bites some journo uses to catch your attention.

What will be will be, but it won't be based on Slobbo type thoughts

Justice Middleton appeared to consider Essendons public representations to be compelling by a comment he made to Dr McNicol, Counsel for ASADA, in the course of dealing with an objection, in which he said: the evidence is all one way in your favour at the moment

... and ..

If it can be shown that Essendon invited the very investigation about which it now complains, how can it later suggest that there was anything inappropriate and improper about the concept?

Firstly, the fact that the judge is pointing these things out shouldn't be taken as indicative of the fact that he's made up his mind. I've seen plenty of instances of judges or magistrates sounding like they're favouring one side during a trial or hearing but coming out with an often unexpected decision the other way.

Secondly, the EFC and Hird have an arguable case that ASADA might possibly not had the power to conduct the investigation in the way that it has done but I'm not impressed by the argument that it was tainted to the point where the work done by ASADA should be buried away in the manner that the Applicants want it to happen. Apart from the main arguments we've heard there is the fact that the investigation continued several months beyond the part where the AFL was involved and included what I regard as the possible "remedial" work done after Judge Downes was called in. Then there's the public interest involving the basic question of whether players were in fact injected with banned substances i.e ascertaining the truth which is what James Hird constantly told the public was his main aim but which does not appear to be the case based on what we've heard in the past two days.

I don't believe any of the parties are coming out of this with any honour or glory.

■ ASADA - has been shown up as your typical bureaucracy understaffed and under equipped, run by people of questionable competence and work ethic. That description applies to a number of government departments which I've come across so please forgive my cynicism on this subject when I suggest that given the above, Andruska comes across as the perfect head of this organisation. I described her elsewhere as a Geoffrey Boycott type, dour and defensive but that's all ASADA could really afford. A Greg Chappell type would be well beyond this organisation's budget but that's the reality of life in this area.

The cross examination of Andruska undoubtedly brought out the fact that her department doesn't particularly carry out its role efficiently or competently but, on the other hand, I don't believe that it achieved its aim of convincing us or the judge that its conduct went as far as to indicate that it acted beyond its power.

■ AFL - what we know about this organisation and its leadership is being reinforced. They act always in their own self-interest, are tough-minded, manipulative and will do what's necessary to protect their own brand. Their mantra is integrity but, as we saw with tanking, they will act with integrity only when it suits them. Demetriou has been applauded for ensuring the AFL was in a far stronger position financially at the end of his term of office than when he started but I suspect that he will also be remembered for presiding over this and other fiascos in an embarrassing fashion and the game and the competition are already suffering as a result.

■ The Gillard government. The politicians who ran this show and brought it to the public notice in February 2013 undoubtedly come across as the most pathetic of all of the participants in this disaster for Australia and its sporting image.

■ EFC - I'm sure that both Evans and Little believed they were doing the best for the club. The change over from one to the other is proving to be a millstone around its next and nothing good can come to the Bombers as a result if its chemical experimentation of 2012.

■ James Hird. Speaking of millstones ...

■ The players. You have to feel sorry for them but they are no different to many other athletes who have become embroiled in doping controversies. Like it or not, the WADA Code has been designed to ensure that athletes in their position do not escape examination. They have been hard done by as a result of the incompetence, hard nosed manipulation and/or sheer crookedness of some of those involved in this mess and in that respect you have to pity them and also admire the way they've stuck fat and performed out on the field in what must be such a difficult time for them. However, they can't win because a finding in favour of the Application will leave them exposed to further ASADA investigation and /or leave their reputations in tatters.

I'm not taking anything for granted in all of this. I suspect that the Federal Court proceeding is only the first of a number of battles in this saga of Shakespearean proportions. So on that note, how could I not mention the role of the good lady and this quote from one of his most misunderstood characters which sums up the game so well?

"Glamis thou art, and Cawdor; and shalt be What thou art promised: yet do I fear thy nature; It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way: thou wouldst be great; Art not without ambition, but without The illness should attend it."

Excellent insights Whispering Jack. Thankyou for the time and effort taken.

Very hard for us mere mortals to understand what is going on.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/12/essendons-asada-power-play-means-afl-cannot-be-the-winner-on-the-day

It's says something about our usual footy journos that it takes a newcomer to write a sensible article.

I'm getting sick of journos, including that bloke on ABC radio national who seem to think that any deficiencies on the part of ASADA or the AFL are somehow excuses for Essendon's outrageous behaviour.

Sue , most of our journos have lost perspective . They have they own allegiances or barrows to push it seems.

"Glamis thou art, and Cawdor; and shalt be What thou art promised: yet do I fear thy nature; It is too full o' the milk of human kindness To catch the nearest way: thou wouldst be great; Art not without ambition, but without The illness should attend it."

Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!—One; two: why, then 'tis time to do't.—Hell is murky.—Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and

afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our pow'r to accompt?—Yet who would have thought the old man to

have had so much blood in him?

Out, damn'd spot! out, I say!—One; two: why, then 'tis time to do't.—Hell is murky.—Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and

afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our pow'r to accompt?—Yet who would have thought the old man to

have had so much blood in him?

Gee Demonland is getting very hi brow today!

Between you and WJ I feel like I should down load a Shakespearian novel.

Gee Demonland is getting very hi brow today!

Between you and WJ I feel like I should down load a Shakespearian novel.

The only Shakesperian line I could remember was "bull's pizzle". No idea why that one stuck. But it certainly applies to the way Essendon are flogging their dead horse.

The only Shakesperian line I could remember was "bull's pizzle". No idea why that one stuck. But it certainly applies to the way Essendon are flogging their dead horse.

You have me there hardtack I don't know it but I imagine more learned members than me will advise the origin.

Re the bombers I still fear the pricks will get off.

Gee Demonland is getting very hi brow today!

Between you and WJ I feel like I should down load a Shakespearian novel.

Disappointed in you OD. Shakespeare was better known for his plays than any novels but I can forgive you for that.

I can't forgive you for ignoring Connie Francis who would surely be closer to your timeframe than Bill.

Speaking of which, "I have no spur to [censored] the sides of my intent, but vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself and falls on the other [side]..."

Edit: hmm. I was replying to old dee, and in reference to a word he used with an "s" on the end, I have offered my memory of another bit of Macbeth. It seemed a reasonable comment on Essendon, and Hird especially. Only, without the "s", I am censored. Makes my post meaningless (more so than usual). I reckon the automatic censoring of this site is [censored].

To the lawyers of Demonland I have a question

when Mr Middleton makes his decision after the trial will the case against Essendon be a consideration? in the sense that if he rules in favour of the bombers he is essentially letting them off on a technicality despite something terrible that caused them to be there in the first place?

I personally can't see how this could be resolved unless ASADA is allowed to hand down show cause notices, the public will just continue to say, they are drug cheats, they got saved by a technicality

The only Shakesperian line I could remember was "bull's pizzle". No idea why that one stuck. But it certainly applies to the way Essendon are flogging their dead horse.

You have me there hardtack I don't know it but I imagine more learned members than me will advise the origin.

Re the bombers I still fear the pricks will get off.

Old Will sure knew how to phrase an insult - a few more applicable to the current situation.

Henry IV Part 1

“You starvelling, you eel-skin, you dried neat’s-tongue, you bull’s-pizzle, you stock-fish–O for breath to utter what is like thee!-you tailor’s-yard, you sheath, you bow-case, you vile standing tuck!”

The Two Gentlemen of Verona - of Jacques Merde

“Thou subtle, perjur’d, false, disloyal man!”

And

Henry V

“There’s no more faith in thee than in a stewed prune.”

This still strikes me as a fishing expedition... Young and Harrington just hoping for a Rumpole moment.

To the lawyers of Demonland I have a question

when Mr Middleton makes his decision after the trial will the case against Essendon be a consideration? in the sense that if he rules in favour of the bombers he is essentially letting them off on a technicality despite something terrible that caused them to be there in the first place?

I personally can't see how this could be resolved unless ASADA is allowed to hand down show cause notices, the public will just continue to say, they are drug cheats, they got saved by a technicality

I am not a lawyer but that is my take on it. Middleton will only rule on whether the joint investigation was legal or not and if any or all of the evidence gathered during that investigation can be used by ASADA. If everything goes Essendon and Hirds way ASADA have stated they will just reissue the show cause notices using evidence gathered legally. I suspect that the hope is that ASADA are bluffing and they will drop the matter. Either way this action will not change the fact that a case exists for breaches of the WADA code by Essendon.

To the lawyers of Demonland I have a question

when Mr Middleton makes his decision after the trial will the case against Essendon be a consideration? in the sense that if he rules in favour of the bombers he is essentially letting them off on a technicality despite something terrible that caused them to be there in the first place?

I personally can't see how this could be resolved unless ASADA is allowed to hand down show cause notices, the public will just continue to say, they are drug cheats, they got saved by a technicality

I am not a lawyer but that is my take on it. Middleton will only rule on whether the joint investigation was legal or not and if any or all of the evidence gathered during that investigation can be used by ASADA. If everything goes Essendon and Hirds way ASADA have stated they will just reissue the show cause notices using evidence gathered legally. I suspect that the hope is that ASADA are bluffing and they will drop the matter. Either way this action will not change the fact that a case exists for breaches of the WADA code by Essendon.

why on earth would ASADA need to bluff ? They can...and will if necessary to achieve their goal, i.e bringing those that need to account..

Im sure Essendon and Hird simply have heads in clouds...or ......somewhere ......

Sue , most of our journos have lost perspective . They have they own allegiances or barrows to push it seems.

As further evidence (as if any is needed) this what Warner has tweeted this morning:

'Play resumes on Day 3 in Melbourne Federal Court, room 6k. Essendon 3-654 (declared). ASADA 78 & 6-45.'

who is this idiot Warner, besides Slobbos drinking buddy ?

I am just smelling a rat. I could imagine the club Insurer telling them to stonewall and agree to nothing.

If these blokes cop health issues in the future, who is the one wearing the claims that will follow, the Insurer.

Retired footballers regularly suffer post-career health issues including arthritis and brain damage. Why would a supplements program, if it leads to future health problems, be treated any differently to other post-career ailments?