Bailey or Neeld?

[stuie 7,374]

Didn't say that.

Just pointing out that any coach would have had difficulty turing this group around.

The group that Bailey got 8.5 wins from?

[Weedster 174]

Neither. We gambled on the untried and got burnt.

[Scipio 5,868]

I don't really think there is an answer to this question, but one thing is clear - they are/were both very good assistant coaches. I think Adelaide are missing Bailey at the moment.

[grant 10]

I'm not sure what the technical term for this kind of reasoning is, where one looks unfairly favourably on the past because the present is gloomy. Whatever the term is, you're suffering from it. The Bailey era was no better than the current one.

Dean Bailey put us in a position where we were downhill skiiers. When the going went our way we could run forwards in droves and score heavily. But when opponents put the pressure on us, we fell apart. Our mids weren't defensive enough at all, not even close. We beat those sides because we matched up well against them and had good days. Our players weren't fit enough, didn't run hard enough, couldn't tackle hard enough, didn't try tackling enough, and generally were all offense with no defence.

Looking at your list of players - Trengove is no worse now than he was in 2011. Gysberts did not 'develop', he came in, played some good games, but did not progress at all. Morton didn't 'develop' at all, his failure as an AFL player is Bailey's, not Neeld's, fault. Grimes is still one of our best players, no idea why you're suggesting he's not. Tapscott did not 'develop', he is no worse or better now than in 2011, he's stagnated because he's not a very talented player. Bennell was never any good, so I don't know what your point is there. Frawley is indeed playing worse than in 2011, but he's improving this year and getting better each week. As for Jurrah and Wonaeamirri, if you want to attempt to place some sort of blame on Neeld for those players, you're actually proving your insanity.

At any rate - Bailey had two years, 2008 and 2009, where we were insipid, before any of what you've said took place, yet you're calling Neeld out midway into his second year.

Your comments are so delusional, people like you shouldnt be allowed opinion, to vote or procreate.

[mauriesy 6,845]

A better coach moves forward like Mick Malthouse at Carlton.

Funny how for all the fanfare about Malthouse, at the season break in 2013 Carlton are in exactly the same position on the ladder with the same win-loss ratio as they were under Ratten.

[grant 10]

Funny how for all the fanfare about Malthouse, at the season break in 2013 Carlton are in exactly the same position on the ladder with the same win-loss ratio as they were under Ratten.

And what can you say about Collingwood without Malthouse?

For all those Neeld supporters out there, if you believe so much in what he is teaching then tell me what is a gameplan?

Other than getting thrashed I see a confused team out there. Garland playing on during the kick in to book the ball 50 metres to not a single Melb player anywhere nearby on the wing just to clear the defensive 50 as much as possible before it gets rammed back in tells the story what faith the players have in this system.

[titan_uranus 22,731]

Your comments are so delusional, people like you shouldnt be allowed opinion, to vote or procreate.

Thank you for your input.

[Fat Tony 4,500]

Bailey failed because he was let down by poor recruiting. Neeld failed because he turned the senior players offside, implemented an obsolete game plan and wasn’t willing to work with what he was given.

[monoccular 16,352]

Couldnt tell you about gossip girl mate. Nah just said bailey by a mile, didnt want to press him about it.

Settle down gossip girl, it was Brad Green the former skipper.

Couldnt tell you about gossip girl mate. Nah just said bailey by a mile, didnt want to press him about it.

So, one man's opinion justifying starting yet another anti-Neeld thread?

Maybe I should start a "Norm Smith or Mick Malthouse" thread?

[Jaded No More 58,846]

We may have been shite under Bailey, but if this isn't the lowest you've ever felt as a Melbourne supporter, then you're in the minority.

We are not even on par with shite, we are so bad it's embarrassing.

Who here thought we'd go this far back under Neeld?

[Pitchy 196]

We may have been shite under Bailey, but if this isn't the lowest you've ever felt as a Melbourne supporter, then you're in the minority.

We are not even on par with shite, we are so bad it's embarrassing.

Who here thought we'd go this far back under Neeld?

From his first press conference I was deeply concerned about Neeld. "I" this and "I that". "I come from Collingwood" this "I know finals" that. AMATEUR HOUR alarm bells went off. Then when he went about rubbishing the players and the club with "not fit" this and "sub-AFL" that. Then he sacked the leaders... And that was just the beginning!

Remember the "Not on your life" press conference after his first game (failure)? He was out of his depth. Then Rnd 1 this year he says "I thought our pre-season GPS data was elite. I have no idea what happened?"

He hasn't displayed the man management skills. Through sheer desperation he has tried everything and now seems to have picked up in that regard. eg. dinner with Davey family (ha- after the start they got off to!). But it's too late now. Bailey had us going forward, maybe not fast enough but still forward, Neeld slammed us in reverse.

[13thFlagIsComing 522]

I'll put it to you this way, with the current list with the current facilities @ AAMI Park but based on their game styles then Bailey gets my vote.

Look at our game against Brisbane in 2011. the run and spread through the middle and off packs was sensational. I remeber our first pre-season game under Bailey down at Geelong and you could see players auto-correcting themselves and looking to go down the middle.

As for Neeld's game day style of grinding the opposition down via the boundary and kicking it long to tall forwards has taken us backwards simply because we don't have the spread when we get the ball.

This causes us to have to slow down the transition forward or go laterally to the wing which allows the opposition to set up their defensive structure. if a turn over occurs then the fat side of the ground opens up as numbers have been committed to the boundary side contest and 30-40 meters surrounding it.

I've always been of the theory of the fastest route to goal is down the middle.

Edited June 11, 2013 by 13thFlagIsComing

[What 18,810]

Bailey by a mile.

Neeld is just deplorable.

[pm24 451]

From his first press conference I was deeply concerned about Neeld. "I" this and "I that". "I come from Collingwood" this "I know finals" that. AMATEUR HOUR alarm bells went off. Then when he went about rubbishing the players and the club with "not fit" this and "sub-AFL" that. Then he sacked the leaders... And that was just the beginning!

Remember the "Not on your life" press conference after his first game (failure)? He was out of his depth. Then Rnd 1 this year he says "I thought our pre-season GPS data was elite. I have no idea what happened?"

He hasn't displayed the man management skills. Through sheer desperation he has tried everything and now seems to have picked up in that regard. eg. dinner with Davey family (ha- after the start they got off to!). But it's too late now. Bailey had us going forward, maybe not fast enough but still forward, Neeld slammed us in reverse.

Just thought I'd quote a statement from Steven Stretch in the recent HUN article regarding Billy Stretch. I've no idea how much Steven has had to do with the club of late, but he suggests that he's been in contact with those who have:

Steven Stretch believed the Demons had the nucleus of a strong side but questioned some "cultural'' issues which had hampered his former club.

Neeld said he was charged with changing the culture when he took over as coach last year.

"I'm not so sure the player development has been inferior, perhaps more so the culture or environment at the club (is an issue),'' he said.

"I have had an insight into the inner sanctum and I know a few people there and the players can't speak highly enough of how they are treated and looked after.

"But a good culture is paramount and maybe that is something they need to address.''

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/youngster-billy-stretch-still-dreams-of-playing-for-melbourne/story-fndv8pdq-1226662053615

A lot of people have made comment about the poor player management by Neeld or as you put it his "man management skills", I just find it interesting that these comments from Stretch, coupled with the recent comments from Grimes and Frawley seem to suggest otherwise....

[Pitchy 196]

Moloney? Rivers? Schwarz?

Platitudes from Stretcher over in SA dont count for much. To be commended for keeping things positive for his beloved club and for his kids future though.

[deanox 8,763]

Moloney? Rivers? Schwarz?

Platitudes from Stretcher over in SA dont count for much. To be commended for keeping things positive for his beloved club and for his kids future though.

Roberts hasn't commented has he?

Moloney, we all know that Neeld and Moloney didn't get on and there are two sides to that story. Moloney is the only one who has publicly backed his side of the story while "Neelds" side seems to have been confirm by robbo at least.

Schwartz hasn't been involved at the club for years and I'm not sure his comments are any more "insider" than your average supporter. Given Stretch is currently in contact with the club die to his son I think he is at least on par with Schwartz on terms of knowledge.

And Cale Morton actually backed the new regime and the standard they are setting.

[Clark_Kent 315]

And Cale Morton actually backed the new regime and the standard they are setting.

At the moment I think setting standards is the most important thing. These standards will last for generations if set up correctly so if it means a bit of short term pain so be it. I just hope the young leaders at this club can continue to drive these standards if Neeld is sacked. That isn't saying I want him sacked as I've actually been fairly supportive even though I do sometimes find it hard to. But I do understand where the club is at and the issues it has had.

[Pipefitter 2,029]

If the standards are higher than why are we so poor? I would have thought the more work you put in the better you get. All points to one thing. This man can't coach.

[Clark_Kent 315]

If the standards are higher than why are we so poor? I would have thought the more work you put in the better you get. All points to one thing. This man can't coach.

Could be a number of reasons:

1) They are doing more fitness work then skills work therefore skills are lacking.

2) They are training more intense during the week as Grimes mentioned and then are struggling mentally gameday.

3) The way they are playing calls on all players to play their part and we have too many passengers (I would say between 10-15 every week)

4) We have crap players.

5) Neeld can't coach

Could be a mixture of these things who knows.

Edited June 12, 2013 by cunnerz09

[pm24 451]

I'm looking at the jump that GC made from season 2 to season 3 and think it could be what we see happen to our list.

We have arguably only had two AFL standard preseasons for the last 6-7 years, and that has been since the current regime took over. Every player interviewed has comment on the massive difference. Neeld and co have also indicated we are only 2/3rds of the way to an AFL level of fitness. So next year, fitness should no longer be an excuse. It'll be our 3rd preseason with the new program, and it could be the one that sees us finally take some positive steps.

After 3 or 4 preseasons GC saw the results with their younger bodies finally being able to hold up to the rigours of AFL play. Lets hope it is the same for us.

[titan_uranus 22,731]

I'm looking at the jump that GC made from season 2 to season 3 and think it could be what we see happen to our list.

We have arguably only had two AFL standard preseasons for the last 6-7 years, and that has been since the current regime took over. Every player interviewed has comment on the massive difference. Neeld and co have also indicated we are only 2/3rds of the way to an AFL level of fitness. So next year, fitness should no longer be an excuse. It'll be our 3rd preseason with the new program, and it could be the one that sees us finally take some positive steps.

After 3 or 4 preseasons GC saw the results with their younger bodies finally being able to hold up to the rigours of AFL play. Lets hope it is the same for us.

I started a thread on this point the other week. Mainly got howled down by those saying 'but GC was full of top-end talent, we're not'.

In part it was circular reasoning, and in part it was MFCSS. In part, of course, it's true - their list is better than ours. And we don't have Ablett.

But what the Gold Coast's development from 2012 to 2013 has shown is that a team can indeed go from a 0-14 start to a 5-6 start, running with Hawthorn and Geelong for three quarters, and clearly being a decent, if only mid-table, AFL side. That doesn't mean it is necessarily going to happen to us, but it means that hope is not necessarily misguided, and a lot of what some on here talk about in terms of needing 2 years, 3 pre-seasons and time may well in fact be fair.