Redleg's MFC rebuild.

[jnrmac 19,509]

Greg Healy might be an early casualty, given the current fortunes of "Quicksilver"!

So we may need a new football director anyway!

And if rumours are true (and they are often not), I don't mind the idea of Williams/ Junior at the coaching helm!

Do you mean Billabong?

[Dee Dee 1,064]

Do you mean Billabong?

Greg's title is (I understand) president Asia Pacific for Quicksilver. They haven't been performing too well of late so his mind may be on matters other than his role at Melbourne.

But I understand Billabong are not doing too well either!

[Jack Attack 3]

Was thinking about our midfield for the future and without the addition of ready made mids from other teams and if we solely concentrate on the draft this year , we could have a gun midfield in a few years !!! Provided the young players are developed the right way. This is a possible future line up , assuming we keep all of Sylvia, Frawley and Watts , but understand that we may trade or lose some of these players , I know it's only on paper but I think with the right set up of the FD ( Good luck PJ ! ) that a side looking similar to this could be a contender in a few years . Also this assumes we qualify for a priority draft pick this year after our 1st rounder

B. Tynan Frawley Garland

HB. Grimes McDonald Blease

C. Trengove Viney Toumpas

HF. Howe Hogan Kent

F. Dawes Clark L. Taylor/Garlett

Ruck Gawn Jones Sylvia

Watts, Taggert, Aish, Dunstan/Crouch

Also you could consider Tapscott , Barry , M Jones , Terlich , Evans , Fitzpatrick

With the potential strengthening of a some mature ages recruits from other clubs through trade and FA, eg Levi Greenwood , David Ellard, Jason Winderlich, Ryan Harwood , Nick Suban , Viv Michie , Jesse Stringer , Michael Rischetelli , Anthony Miles , Xavier Ellis , Mitch Hallahan, Shane Savage , Thomas Curren, Faren Ray , Craig Bird , Daniel Cross , Adam Cooney

The future is not as bleak as we think ?

[CBDees 3,162]

1. Let PJ restructure the admin including the FD.

2. New President and a few changes on the Board, keeping only those who can really contribute and adding people with expertise in the required portfolios.

3. New coach, with previous AFL experience, including if possible, a flag as a coach. Must be a player's coach and able to generate player buy in and loyalty.

4. Trade in a free agent mid or two who are in our best 22 with the right work ethic and with plenty of their career left.

5. Trade an aging ruckman to GWS, who will lose Brogan, for a mid or 2 or a mid and a pick.

6. Ontrade the pick for another mid.

7. Obtain a Priority Pick or two with the second at the end of round one.

8. Use the PP's and first few picks to draft mids. At least 4-5 could be taken and even more if good players were available. Also if possible get one or two Christensen/Motlop/Garlett small forward types.

9. Delist those who cannot dispose of the football to AFL standard.

10. Unless Gillies completely turns around his game admit failure on MN's older players and delist Byrnes, Rodan and Gillies and pay them out if necessary. Pedersen obviously gets another year as he has two more to go and is at least versatile. Dawes is fine.

11. Get as many games into JV, Blease, Kent, Taggart, Toumpas, Terlich, M. Jones, Fitzy, Gawn and Tynan as possible in the rest of this year.

12. Wrap Mitch in cotton wool for next year and keep him mentoring Jesse at Casey.

13. Re-sign Watts and Sylvia and get them to buy in under new Coach and new side that we will see in 2014.

14. Get as much cash from the AFL as possible to compensate for the dreadful financial fixture we have been given for the last few years (I admit our performances this year haven't helped).

15. Get everyone in the club to start talking up the club instead of spewing doom.

16. Pray for a good run with injuries next year.

I know I have forgotten some points but feel free to add to them Demonlanders.

I honestly believe with 2-3 reasonable mids from other clubs and the best two in the draft, as GWS will take Boyd, plus more mids and the improvement in the boys we have with another pre season and Mitch and Hogan into the forward line with Dawes and say Howe/Sylvia/Watts we will be a completely different side.

If we achieve 1 & 2 and 4-16 then you don't need 3 (and a costly pay-out) as Neeld would be able to win us a Premiership!

[Clark_Kent 315]

Yeah it could turn quickly. We all know our midfield is deplorable at the moment. But if we can get some high quality mids I think we are decent everywhere else.

[Redleg 38,618]

The future is not as bleak as we think ?

No it's not.

Casey Scorpions 5.3.33 9.7.61 14.11.95 21.15.141

Collingwood 2.1.13 3.3.21 5.6.36 7.9.51

[Redleg 38,618]

If we achieve 1 & 2 and 4-16 then you don't need 3 (and a costly pay-out) as Neeld would be able to win us a Premiership!

If MN has lost the players then it is a non negotiable. On the other hand I am not sure he can coach anyway and I am not alone in that view. Our performance under him has been deplorable.

[junk 342]

sylvia is going to hold mfc to randsom like in 2011.Hawthorn footy club are not going to worry about buddy's wims.Does redleg refer to the early 1900's team?why not go back to 1877 we can replace the blue with green as in 1877 then we can call us the fuchsias.go petal watts......it's not his fault. sorry about spelling mistakes,your views will only put the dees into further debt.

Don't expect P.J to save us. I am of aboriginal origin who didn't graduate from grade one so don't pick on me you white supremist,

[Return to Glory 7,869]

Supremacist.

[Whispering_Jack 28,128]

Well it's true, we both wanted a coach, a CEO and a Chairman.

But you supported the incumbents and I wanted change.

Do you want Schwab back and McLardy and Neeld to stay? Or do we now agree on the need for change?

Anyway, water under the bridge. Let's hope for a good result today and Monday.

Schwab - you're right. Water under the bridge like Szondy, Gardner, Ellis, Harris and McNamee although you could never tell me any time when I asked what he was supposed to have done wrong. You want the others back?

McLardy - reckon he's been great for the club in difficult circumstances especially under fire as a result of the tanking inquisition but I feel let down by the club over the Dank issue and, as the club leader, he has to bear the responsibility. I sense that he's preparing for the day when he steps down and let's just hope that he leaves the club in good hands and not with a Kennett or similar type main chancer who would lead us back to the Szondy era from which many of our current issues took their root.

Neeld - the greatest conundrum of the lot. He was given what I now concede as one of football's toughest gigs and circumstances (including people undermining him from day 1) prevailed to prevent him from carrying out the cultural changes necessary to rebuild the club after the recruiting and list management disasters of the past decade. He's made some mistakes but if he doesn't survive, the next in line will still have a challenge but one made easier by what he's. brought to the table. Unfortunately, the benefits of what he's done are intangibles that won't be felt for another couple of years.

Today was more than another good result. It demonstrated that we have talent coming up that will have our supporters back on the bandwagon sooner rather than later. Hogan, Gawn and a handful of others look good.

Monday - I've long gone past the stage of expecting our blokes to show character like some of the other lowly sides have done this year, including GWS today. I still expect us to perform in front of what I hope will be a big crowd but I'm not sure of even that (the performance or the crowd).

[Bitter but optimistic 21,586]

9. Delist those who cannot dispose of the football to AFL standard.

We could be talking dangerously high numbers here Red.

[beelzebub 22,742]

9. Delist those who cannot dispose of the football to AFL standard.

We could be talking dangerously high numbers here Red.

then so be it. I am absolutely fed up with so called footballers who simnply cant do the basic ask of same said footballers...i.e kick it properly.. It just amazes me..Fair enough in suburbam footy, maybe in the VFL its acceptable to some degree to murder a ball but at the elite end of things its got to be a foundation skill. That and handballing 10-15 to a running playerr, to advantage and not so they have to deviate and compromise the flow of play.

Do I ask too much ?

[Bitter but optimistic 21,586]

No!

[Red&BlueBlood 61]

Simple steps:

1. Trade Jamar to GWS for a midfielder

2. Promote Max Gawn to No 1 ruck

3. Sign Hogan for 5 years

5. Find another 2 B+ - A grade midfielders and throw cash at them

6. Recruit strong balling winning kids

[titan_uranus 23,249]

If all of Redleg's points were to come to fruition, we'd be a finals quality team in 1-2 years. Unfortunately, reality says that some/many simply won't happen.

Finding mids to join us under FA sounds fantastic, but they have to exist, and then they have to want to come here. Not saying it can't/won't happen, but very well may not.

Delisting Rodan/Gillies/Byrnes again sounds nice, but Byrnes is contracted, and we can't afford to waste money on paying players out. You can't with one hand ask us to pay a player out and then with the other hand go to the AFL for financial assistance; that's ludicrous, Redleg. Byrnes stays, IMO. Rodan is adding value, wait and see after Round 23. I'm with you on Gillies though, unless there is some miraculous form reversal he is gone.

Obviously the rest of the OP is pretty much fair. I can't help but look at a team with a spine of Hogan, Dawes, Gawn, McDonald and Frawley, with Clark a third KPF/second ruckman, and think there is more than enough to work with. Give N. Jones and Viney some midfield support and we'll hopefully get there. A new FD, Board and (probably) coach will be needed, but it can be done, I feel.

[Waltham33 423]

So you advocate a rebuild of the rebuild of the rebuild.

[Redleg 38,618]

If all of Redleg's points were to come to fruition, we'd be a finals quality team in 1-2 years. Unfortunately, reality says that some/many simply won't happen.

Finding mids to join us under FA sounds fantastic, but they have to exist, and then they have to want to come here. Not saying it can't/won't happen, but very well may not.

Delisting Rodan/Gillies/Byrnes again sounds nice, but Byrnes is contracted, and we can't afford to waste money on paying players out. You can't with one hand ask us to pay a player out and then with the other hand go to the AFL for financial assistance; that's ludicrous, Redleg. Byrnes stays, IMO. Rodan is adding value, wait and see after Round 23. I'm with you on Gillies though, unless there is some miraculous form reversal he is gone.

Obviously the rest of the OP is pretty much fair. I can't help but look at a team with a spine of Hogan, Dawes, Gawn, McDonald and Frawley, with Clark a third KPF/second ruckman, and think there is more than enough to work with. Give N. Jones and Viney some midfield support and we'll hopefully get there. A new FD, Board and (probably) coach will be needed, but it can be done, I feel.

Titan, clearly I am not suggesting we could get a Cotchin, or a Watson or an Ablett, but rather a player who would be in our best 22 but might not be in his side's, or is after a bit more security..

You look at Josh Kennedy going from the Hawks to the Swans, I need say no more. There must be a few of those types of players out there. They need to be identified and targetted.

If we could get a couple and then the best two mids in the draft and then a few more later and hope for improvement in JV,Toumpas, Taggart etc we would improve quickly.

Hogan, Clark and Grimes back and a small forward and things are really changing.

It would be difficult but not impossible. The real hard thing would be getting a couple of mids from other clubs. The rest is there before us.

[Redleg 38,618]

So you advocate a rebuild of the rebuild of the rebuild.

Partially, yes.

You can't persist with non AFL standard players and expect to do well.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Redleg

[Blistering 493]

I'm a doubter on Sylvia. He has 12 rounds to prove he can play with a little more consistency and discipline than what he's shown in the past. He has to do that otherwise the best he'll do as a FA is land an ordinary contract in a backwater club like Moloney did.

I get that he's a FA but if he doesn't come up to scratch then I think we should explore the possibility of trading him for a midfielder who might be a FA or out of contract with another club.

[rpfc 27,692]

To the best of my knowledge these are the OOC players (Rodan may be contracted for 2014):

Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, Evans, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Couch ®, Magner ®, Rodan, Gillies, Clisby ®, Stark ®

You can trade out players for a song if you want to - I don't like doing that. It interferes with the integrity of your list as an investment.

So for example, we can move McKenzie on Pick 50 if we want to but that is an excellent way to make our list worse.

I can see 10 players from the above to remove (or leave) from the Primary List. All 4 rookies can be moved on if the reshaped FD wishes.

You can trade out Watts, Sylvia might leave, Davey might retire (doubt it), and we may only keep Gawn, Taggert, and Evans of the 19 players above.

That would mean 15 players through the draft (minus one or two for FAs) with 4 rookies, 1st pick of the PSD, and Picks 2, 21, 22 (Sylvia comp), 42, 62, 80, 93, 103, 108, and 112 in the National Draft.

At what point do the 5 picks from 80 onwards in the ND become a worse investment than what we currently have?

[Whispering_Jack 28,128]

Good question. The signing of Evans last week reduces your number by one and a few others will be re-signed.

My guess is that there will still be a largish cull by both circumstance (some wanting to leave) and by design (us moving them on) and the number of pick #80 plussers will be diminished if we continue our philosophy of trading. Hopefully, we can snare a couple of good ones via FA and/or trades as mentioned in other posts above.

One point I would add to Redleg's list that relates to list management is my concern about how the FD handled it last year.

I think it was a poor strategy to make a blanket announcement that the club would not sign certain players on new contracts until after the trade/draft period. I sense that this might have led to some added pressures on many players contracted or otherwise about the security of their positions in the future. Added to the way some players were handled under the Bailey regime (Chris Johnson, Junior Mac, Brad Miller etc.), I don't believe it helped the general atmosphere around the place.

(That's not to say that I disagree with the decisions to move those players on but rather, it's the way we go about it that has to be better).

[Mr Steve 3,820]

One of Mark Neeld's biggest problem is that he believed he would get three years to turn this around. He now has twelfth games at best, lets see what happens.

[Redleg 38,618]

Scott Watters now has finally used the dreaded "rebuild" word, in respect to the Saints who sit just above us on the ladder.

[titan_uranus 23,249]

Titan, clearly I am not suggesting we could get a Cotchin, or a Watson or an Ablett, but rather a player who would be in our best 22 but might not be in his side's, or is after a bit more security..

You look at Josh Kennedy going from the Hawks to the Swans, I need say no more. There must be a few of those types of players out there. They need to be identified and targetted.

If we could get a couple and then the best two mids in the draft and then a few more later and hope for improvement in JV,Toumpas, Taggart etc we would improve quickly.

Hogan, Clark and Grimes back and a small forward and things are really changing.

It would be difficult but not impossible. The real hard thing would be getting a couple of mids from other clubs. The rest is there before us.

I wasn't saying you implied we were going to get a Cotchin-style player. Even targeting a B/C-grade midfielder who can come in and help is difficult. As in, it's one thing to identify what needs to happen, it's another to get it done. I'd love us to go get Dale Thomas or any other midfielder who is available and potentially could join us, but we have to both find these players and convince them to come to us instead of any of the other 17 clubs. That's not easy.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Scott Watters now has finally used the dreaded "rebuild" word, in respect to the Saints who sit just above us on the ladder.

... hmmn, a nice inheritance he received.

lotza work to be dunn.