Did anyone else see the conversation between Caroline Wilson and Francis Leach (both off whom i rate as knowledgable and objective commentators) on the Offsiders on ABC1 last Sunday?

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/program/39476

In it, Wilson was mounting the argument that the AFL should help the MFC rebuild on the grounds that it is one of the poorer clubs in the AFL, and has done nothing worse than the wealthy a clubs Essendon, WC, Adelaide and Brisbane over the last couple of years, all of whom have the resources to recover. When Leach disagreed, Wilson asked the question "do you want the AFL to have 18 clubs or not?", Leach's reply was "bring it on!".

Whether he believes the oldest football club of any code anywhere in the world, the first club to play a game of Aussie rules (with Geelong), and the pivotal club to the MCG should be encouraged to fold or not, this should not be made as such a flippant remark as this. If it is going to be canvassed, it should be properly debated, and not the "behind the hand" behavior this represents, and I suspect is rife in the football world at the moment.

Leach himself is a mad Saints supporter, and I bet he has already forgotten that his beloved club was not all that many seasons ago seen as a basket case with deplorable governance and needed to be bailed out by the AFL.

A bit of balance please Francis - and the ABC.

Is this the same guy who claimed on twitter last night Aus Vs. Japan is now our greatest sporting rivalry?

never heard of him

He's a [censored]

who is francis leach? was he a soccer player?

Knock out every club that struggles and see how long the AFL lasts.

supports arsenal. 'nuff said.

Francis Leach is one of my favourite presenters. As an ex triple J presenter, he has, IMO, a lot of credits in the bank.

I've got a lot of respect for Francis - whilst I disagree with his opinions on the Dees I think he's far from a disgrace.

A flippant remark used to stir up some controversy and conversation.

He was a JJJ presenter for a number of years and while I thought it an odd move for him into sports I have always thought he had well thought out discussion points and arguments over the years he has been covering sports. Just because we don't like the answer doesn't mean it is wrong. In saying that if that is verbatim what he said then it is not to his usual response level and a bit silly.

I don't mind Francis Leach and I think you're over reacting to the comments. I'd like to see our club stand on its own two feet as well.

If we get help from the AFL, shouldn't all the other clubs??

You can't be bailing clubs out because they're no good or have failed to manage themselves efficiently. Seems a bit odd to me.

There's not many good sports journos out there but Francis Leach is one of them. His belief that clubs should fend for themselves is certainly debatable but calling him a 'disgrace' or a '[censored]', without putting your name to the comments is 'over the top, and verging on cowardly.

Did anyone else see the conversation between Caroline Wilson and Francis Leach (both off whom i rate as knowledgable and objective commentators) on the Offsiders on ABC1 last Sunday?

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/program/39476

In it, Wilson was mounting the argument that the AFL should help the MFC rebuild on the grounds that it is one of the poorer clubs in the AFL, and has done nothing worse than the wealthy a clubs Essendon, WC, Adelaide and Brisbane over the last couple of years, all of whom have the resources to recover. When Leach disagreed, Wilson asked the question "do you want the AFL to have 18 clubs or not?", Leach's reply was "bring it on!".

Whether he believes the oldest football club of any code anywhere in the world, the first club to play a game of Aussie rules (with Geelong), and the pivotal club to the MCG should be encouraged to fold or not, this should not be made as such a flippant remark as this. If it is going to be canvassed, it should be properly debated, and not the "behind the hand" behavior this represents, and I suspect is rife in the football world at the moment.

Leach himself is a mad Saints supporter, and I bet he has already forgotten that his beloved club was not all that many seasons ago seen as a basket case with deplorable governance and needed to be bailed out by the AFL.

A bit of balance please Francis - and the ABC.

"between Caroline Wilson and Francis Leach (both off whom i rate as knowledgable and objective commentators)".....you are being sarcastic......... aren't you?

He proved to be simultaneously too dumb and too smart for SEN and thus left for the ABC to be replaced by Mark Allen to join the Ox.

Generally a good commentator.

If he said Aus v Japan is Australia's greatest sporting rivalry, though, I don't know if I can listen to a word he says anymore.

I don't mind Francis Leach and I think you're over reacting to the comments. I'd like to see our club stand on its own two feet as well.

If we get help from the AFL, shouldn't all the other clubs??

You can't be bailing clubs out because they're no good or have failed to manage themselves efficiently. Seems a bit odd to me.

There's not many good sports journos out there but Francis Leach is one of them. His belief that clubs should fend for themselves is certainly debatable but calling him a 'disgrace' or a '[censored]', without putting your name to the comments is 'over the top, and verging on cowardly.

Port Adelaide, Western Bulldogs, Carlton - that's 3 clubs bailed out because of poor management. Not to mention Gold Coast and GWS who are both fully funded by the AFL.

The AFL have set up a system where the clubs get bad stadium deals if they can't keep big crowds (even moderate crowds don't make big coin) and the AFL then pocket the TV money which is the main form of income for the game. It's led to this situation where periodically any of about 8 clubs (Port, GWS, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Melb, North, WB, StKilda) can end up in trouble if they have a bad run. At the same time the disparity of footy department spending almost insures some of these clubs spend time at the bottom.

Dumb shyte of a comment.

When asked about whether he wanted 18 clubs, Leach responded with "It's not my problem". He didn't say "Bring it on".

Edited June 5, 201312 yr by Spirit of 39

Generally a good commentator.

If he said Aus v Japan is Australia's greatest sporting rivalry, though, I don't know if I can listen to a word he says anymore.

It depends if he is specifying strictly international competitions with Australian teams:

I'd say The ashes is still number one but cricket is on the decline lets see how this one goes

Other options:

Bledisloe cup - another sport on the decline

Australia v NZ rugby league - no thanks

Australia v India cricket - hmmm probably not

Australia v NZ netball - no

Australia v US swimming - probably not

Australia v Ireland International Rules - no

Australian sailing v the world

Of course if he includes all the great rivalries within Australia - League State of origin blows it away, Coll v Carl, ANZAC day, a good Western derby etc

But if we somehow bludge our way into this world cup and can find some decent players after it for another golden generation (ie. 11 guys actually getting games at decent european/top asian clubs) soccer will go from strength to strength and Australia v Japan will start to mean something like the ashes. With Rugby and Aussie Rules not having great international competition the socceroos look set to become Australia's number one national team.

I do hate the argument "oldest club" "started the game" have the name "Melbourne"

These are not reasons why our club should exist. It should it exist due to its own viability and its support from its members.

If we can't achieve that with the AFL help we already get due to their crappy draw.

We need to stand on our own.

Honestly, Demonlanders can be far too precious! It was a flippant off the cuff remark... really, who cares??

On the Aus v Japan things... if considered in relation to the significance of the world cup on the world stage (largest viewing audience of any sporting event including the olympics), then in terms of importance, he might well be right. Regardless, it was certainly one of the best games of football I've seen for some time.

Edited June 5, 201312 yr by hardtack

I do hate the argument "oldest club" "started the game" have the name "Melbourne"

These are not reasons why our club should exist. It should it exist due to its own viability and its support from its members.

If we can't achieve that with the AFL help we already get due to their crappy draw.

We need to stand on our own.

I agree. Time to stand on our own two feet. Same with the proposed salary cap increase. I'd be furious if another club received such a benefit due to their own mis-management because that means it makes it all that much harder for my club.

He was a JJJ presenter for a number of years and while I thought it an odd move for him into sports I have always thought he had well thought out discussion points and arguments over the years he has been covering sports. Just because we don't like the answer doesn't mean it is wrong. In saying that if that is verbatim what he said then it is not to his usual response level and a bit silly.

I suggest you have a look at the program on iview - it is there for all to see.

I too have had a bit of time for him as a commentator -,he is one of the few ABC people who knows anything about Football ( ie FFA) for instance, but unfortunately even the most even handed commentators can't help themselves when it comes to the parochialism of the AFL. You are right, it could best be described as silly, but when you are in a life and death battle for survival as we are now in, even flippant, "silly" remarks, particularly when they come from credible commentators like Francis, need to be called out for what they are...

Nobody wants us in the AFL except us. The only way to stop all this shite is to earn RESPECT.

From Top to Bottom this lazy organization called the MFC has got to harden up.

Charity and draft picks will not do it.

Hard dirty work is what will.

St. Kilda will fold well before the MFC btw Francis, you are in for some large pain.

Go the Gunners.

This entire thread is a complete overeaction to be honest. Who cares if Francis Leech doesn't think the AFL should help us - does it really matter? He's allowed his opinion. At the end of the day his comments aren't important at all and won't have an effect on anything....

he has terrible taste in music.

and he couldn't commentate an egg and spoon race.