What are the implications for us?

[Cards13 9,117]

That would potentially mean Trenners/MFC players as well....

It proves that ignorance isnt a defence when it comes to drugs in sport.

Essendon has 'ignorance' written all over it

[Clintosaurus 6,429]

Essendon have had a crisis management expert working with them since February so to me it seems they have been going through the crisis management playbook, and each time hoping the strategy would work. Looks like it isn't.

Hird also has his own PR people to keep the saintly image intact. Good luck with that.

[jazza 1,323]

Essendon have had a crisis management expert working with them since February so to me it seems they have been going through the crisis management playbook, and each time hoping the strategy would work. Looks like it isn't.

Hird also has his own PR people to keep the saintly image intact. Good luck with that.

said it before kyle reimers will be a good witness

asada will take prisoners and do the right thing.unlike the acb

all hot wind coming out of bombers at the moment, isnt ziggy thier no 1 supporter?

[PJ_12345 1,098]

If MFC players are found to have done the same as Essendrug players then we cop the same bans.

After the "Tanking" strategy and absolute failure would our board be that naive?

What if the board and the majority of the FD had no idea what was going on?

They're incompetent over the most important aspect of a club.......player welfare.

Ignorance is not an excuse in this case.

Remember the role and responsibilities of certain people/parties in organisations. The person who is responsible for player welfare, Bates and day-to-day activities of the club was Cameron Schwab.

We learnt from The Age that upon hearing on the connection between Bates and Dank the board administered an immediate investigation and was 100% transperent with the AFL (Gill) contrary to AD's comments. Bates lied to Thurin who was conducting the investigation and they found out the current details and politely stood him down for the moment.

Considering their transperency (which many people originally doubted) with the AFL, their role and responsibilities in the organisation, the quickness of the investigation and the circumstances of the information Bates provided... they have done a good job.

Typing this now I know I'll get the casual reply "the buck has to stop somewhere" - but in this case it stopped at Cameron Schwab. It was Schwab's responsibility. He failed and is already gone.

I'll accept the fact that they appointed CS, and should be accountable for that - but to presume that the board should have knowledge of day to day activities such as our sport scientist is crap.

A line has to be drawn somewhere.

The more and more I read about the expectations people have on the coaching staff and board in particular really emphasises the question in my head: "why would anyone want to deal with this club"... I just hope other people who are in the capacity of actually being in these roles if they become available dont start thinking the same question.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

That would potentially mean Trenners/MFC players as well....

Unfortunately yes.

It was Bates' job to check all of this. He mucked up and now Trengrove is going to wear it.

Feel for Jack, this stuff can be bought over the counter, and you would think your club doctor would know if its banned or not - but at the end of the day he knows he bares the risk, and he should have double checked.

Really tough, but with Essendon and Melbourne its a double edged sword...

[BarnDee 284]

the real worry hear is that the MFC has admitted our players wee injected by Dank last year with 'vitamins'

chances that this Dank loser was only using vitamins are about 10,000 to 1

I think we might be in big trouble

wrong , any injection given to our blokes was done by a reg nurse at a med clinic , and its been written that what was in them was passed by the clinic

that is what was said

[Geddy Lee 582]

Mark Thompson has gone to the Cuddles Connolly school of vanishing from media. He probably needs a cuddle at the moment too.

I believe that Hird and the board will be jettisoned. Several players will be banned for 6-24 months. After that, what happens to the EFC? Their membership might stay constant but ASADA and AD will hamstring them for years.

Shame that the players have had their health and careers put at risk by snake oil salesmen and abhorrently inept governance however if 'sport scientists' lose their new-age lustre and control over developing young men then some good may come of this. Sadly the AFL was so worried about dope and E that they were completely and utterly blindsided for many years by a number of clubs on a colossal scale.

[TheoX 1,218]

Unfortunately yes.

It was Bates' job to check all of this. He mucked up and now Trengrove is going to wear it.

Feel for Jack, this stuff can be bought over the counter, and you would think your club doctor would know if its banned or not - but at the end of the day he knows he bares the risk, and he should have double checked.

Really tough, but with Essendon and Melbourne its a double edged sword...

Surely Bates will be de-registered.

[rjay 23,901]

Unfortunately yes.

It was Bates' job to check all of this. He mucked up and now Trengrove is going to wear it.

Feel for Jack, this stuff can be bought over the counter, and you would think your club doctor would know if its banned or not - but at the end of the day he knows he bares the risk, and he should have double checked.

Really tough, but with Essendon and Melbourne its a double edged sword...

I think (and who really knows at the moment but this is how I read it) the stuff Essendon have been alleged to have used (injected variety) was banned under a catch all that covers drugs not yet approved for human use. It hasn't or at least wasn't itemised and banned but is under the catch all.

The stuff Trengove has been alleged to have used, even though it is the same ingredient but in the cream form is sold over the counter as you say so it has been approved for human use as a cream or it wouldn't be on sale. So accordingly he hasn't used a banned drug.

Injection bad, cream ok.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

I think (and who really knows at the moment but this is how I read it) the stuff Essendon have been alleged to have used (injected variety) was banned under a catch all that covers drugs not yet approved for human use. It hasn't or at least wasn't itemised and banned but is under the catch all.

The stuff Trengove has been alleged to have used, even though it is the same ingredient but in the cream form is sold over the counter as you say so it has been approved for human use as a cream or it wouldn't be on sale. So accordingly he hasn't used a banned drug.

Injection bad, cream ok.

Thats what I'm really really hoping for.

I've checked it out and yep you can buy it over the counter - except everwhere I've tried they are out of stock.

Mind you is the amount of AOD9604 is incredibly miniscule and all it will basically do is reduce my cellulite...

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'd love to be reading about Essendon at the moment, as I'm enjoying their plight. Wouldn't you know that the one other club to get caught up with Dank would have to be Melbourne.

They have an extraordinary capacity to stick their neck out at the wrong time.

[DemonWA 3,434]

Thats what I'm really really hoping for.

I've checked it out and yep you can buy it over the counter - except everwhere I've tried they are out of stock.

Mind you is the amount of AOD9604 is incredibly miniscule and all it will basically do is reduce my cellulite...

i'm pretty sure that the use of the cream can be found to be 'prohibited' if it was used to enhance performance. For example cold and flu tablets are sold over the counter, but when used in sport is classified as a banned substance due to the pseudoeffidrine.

Whether or not serious injury recovery is performance im not sure.Trengove wasnt putting it on his foot to reduce fat!

Edited May 1, 2013 by DemonWA

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Remember the role and responsibilities of certain people/parties in organisations. The person who is responsible for player welfare, Bates and day-to-day activities of the club was Cameron Schwab.

We learnt from The Age that upon hearing on the connection between Bates and Dank the board administered an immediate investigation and was 100% transperent with the AFL (Gill) contrary to AD's comments. Bates lied to Thurin who was conducting the investigation and they found out the current details and politely stood him down for the moment.

Considering their transperency (which many people originally doubted) with the AFL, their role and responsibilities in the organisation, the quickness of the investigation and the circumstances of the information Bates provided... they have done a good job.

Typing this now I know I'll get the casual reply "the buck has to stop somewhere" - but in this case it stopped at Cameron Schwab. It was Schwab's responsibility. He failed and is already gone.

I'll accept the fact that they appointed CS, and should be accountable for that - but to presume that the board should have knowledge of day to day activities such as our sport scientist is crap.

A line has to be drawn somewhere.

The more and more I read about the expectations people have on the coaching staff and board in particular really emphasises the question in my head: "why would anyone want to deal with this club"... I just hope other people who are in the capacity of actually being in these roles if they become available dont start thinking the same question.

You are being too cute by half.

Who did Bates report directly to? Dave Misson? Neil Craig? What line of sight and governance did they have over what Bates was doing? Saying "we did not know" is a cop out. How could they not have a clue over what was happening in the most important area of player welfare? Its staggering. Its still to proven that they actually did not know anything. If they did know something and did not raise up the chain then they are in as much trouble as Bates for misleading the Board.

Schwab was dismissed for a number of failings including the tanking. The issue of the AFL being misled came to light after he had gone but he had still been here he would have been a dead man walking as a CEO.

But the Board were responsible for the rejig of the FD that lead to the changes that brought Bates and his superiors here. They were also were responsible for re-signing Schwab in the middle of a serious AFL investigation where his credibility was in jeopardy for 3 years on $1.5million then sacked him for spurious public reasons 3 months later for $500k payout.

If the Club is serious then the Chairman and possibly certain Board directors should also follow suit.

This does not take into consideration that disasterous outcome of Trengove being found guilty for the banned substances. Its bad enough he is on tenderhooks over this appalling situation

I expect Jackson to be working with the Board and the AFL to effect the necessary transitions during his six months.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'd love to be reading about Essendon at the moment, as I'm enjoying their plight. Wouldn't you know that the one other club to get caught up with Dank would have to be Melbourne.

They have an extraordinary capacity to stick their neck out at the wrong time.

Its a 2 edged sword given MFC is involved.

Either way its disgraceful that players are bearing the brunt of the uncertainty of the outcomes. At both Clubs heads should roll.

i'm pretty sure that the use of the cream can be found to be 'prohibited' if it was used to enhance performance. For example cold and flu tablets are sold over the counter, but when used in sport is classified as a banned substance due to the pseudosedrine.

Whether or not serious injury recovery is performance im not sure.Trengove wasnt putting it on his foot to reduce fat!

If it gets Trengove back on the field quicker than if he did not use it then it must be performance enhancing.

But the bottom line is that a sportsman has used a banned substance. The ASADA gospel is that the player is responsible for what goes into his body.

[hardtack 10,126]

I hope that if Essendon lose a number of players for an extended period, the AFL doesn't make an exception and allow them to elevate their entire rookie list. Is there anything in the ASADA rules to ensure that this scenario is not possible?

[dee-luded 2,958]

Mark Thompson has gone to the Cuddles Connolly school of vanishing from media. He probably needs a cuddle at the moment too.

I believe that Hird and the board will be jettisoned. Several players will be banned for 6-24 months. After that, what happens to the EFC? Their membership might stay constant but ASADA and AD will hamstring them for years.

Shame that the players have had their health and careers put at risk by snake oil salesmen and abhorrently inept governance however if 'sport scientists' lose their new-age lustre and control over developing young men then some good may come of this. Sadly the AFL was so worried about dope and E that they were completely and utterly blindsided for many years by a number of clubs on a colossal scale.

the a FL & bombers public relations managers may have organised 'bomba' to flee to the highest treetop & out of site, while the schyte splatters far & wide??? someone will be required to grab hold of the joy stick & fly the plane.

[Cards13 9,117]

Unfortunately yes.

It was Bates' job to check all of this. He mucked up and now Trengrove is going to wear it.

Feel for Jack, this stuff can be bought over the counter, and you would think your club doctor would know if its banned or not - but at the end of the day he knows he bares the risk, and he should have double checked.

Really tough, but with Essendon and Melbourne its a double edged sword...

Well that really puts a downer in my enjoyment of the Dons getting reamed...

[PJ_12345 1,098]

You are being too cute by half.

Who did Bates report directly to? Dave Misson? Neil Craig? What line of sight and governance did they have over what Bates was doing? Saying "we did not know" is a cop out. How could they not have a clue over what was happening in the most important area of player welfare? Its staggering. Its still to proven that they actually did not know anything. If they did know something and did not raise up the chain then they are in as much trouble as Bates for misleading the Board.

Schwab was dismissed for a number of failings including the tanking. The issue of the AFL being misled came to light after he had gone but he had still been here he would have been a dead man walking as a CEO.

But the Board were responsible for the rejig of the FD that lead to the changes that brought Bates and his superiors here. They were also were responsible for re-signing Schwab in the middle of a serious AFL investigation where his credibility was in jeopardy for 3 years on $1.5million then sacked him for spurious public reasons 3 months later for $500k payout.

If the Club is serious then the Chairman and possibly certain Board directors should also follow suit.

This does not take into consideration that disasterous outcome of Trengove being found guilty for the banned substances. Its bad enough he is on tenderhooks over this appalling situation

I expect Jackson to be working with the Board and the AFL to effect the necessary transitions during his six months.

RR, all I said was that it was Cameron Schwab's duty to oversee the day to day activities of the club, and ridiculous/unrealistic to expect the board to know the activities of the sports scientist. That is not their role, or responsibilities... thats why we have a CEO.

As I mentioned, they are accountable for CS - but again - it is unrealistic to expect the board to know the activities of the sports scientist.

That was my point.

I have no idea why you're raising up why CS was axed, his extended contract, who Bates reported to (CS), what PJ will do, Trengrove, Craig, Misson ect. or any other stuff...

[Dwight Schrute 16,751]

How much does it help trengove that it was a cream rather than injection, and during the off season?

potentially cut or eliminate a possible suspension or it's not going to matter?

Sorry if that's a stupid question.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Well that really puts a downer in my enjoyment of the Dons getting reamed...

As some others have mentioned I might be a bit too harsh.

There are some differences between our situation and theirs so there is hope!

[Cards13 9,117]

As some others have mentioned I might be a bit too harsh.

There are some differences between our situation and theirs so there is hope!

Not sure you are PJ, WADA/ASADA are ruthless when they catch people. I still feel for the 2 blokes from the VFL caught in the last couple of years who were hammered by ASADA. Wade Lees from Casey didn't even take anything all he did was order something online.. 18 months ban!

From a couple of Hun articles...

Clark received a nine-month suspension for taking an energy supplement called "Hemo Rage".

The 21-year-old came up positive to a test conducted by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority last year and learned of his ban through his sports lawyer yesterday.

An AFL Victoria tribunal decided the penalty.

"I’m glad to get it behind me," a guarded Clark told Leader this morning.

"I guess I have to accept it (the suspension). I don’t have any other option."

Clark received the supplement from a former teammate, who bought it at a health food shop in the northern suburbs.

He said he was unaware he was doing anything wrong.

The former Dandenong Stingrays player said he used the supplement about six times.

"He (the ex-teammate) said it was all good for VFL," Clark said in February.

"After few months after I was tested I got a phone call (from ASADA) saying the sample came back positive. I was shocked pretty much."

Another VFL player, Casey Scorpion Wade Lees, is also facing a suspension, over a fat-burning product he bought online from the US in 2010.

Australian Customs picked up the package and informed ASADA.

Lees was subjected to a gruelling two-year ASADA interrogation including frequent questioning and submissions, phone conferences, a cross-examination and ultimately an 18-month ban for importing performance-enhancing drugs.

The VFL star purchased a fat-burner contaminated with steroids but claimed he did not know it contained traces of illegal constituents.

The product was intercepted by customs and Lees says he has never taken a banned substance.

[Tony Tea 2,786]

This is the AFL. They will pull every string known to mankind to minimise brand damage and maintain competition architecture.

Peter Bruchner, who is an expert in these matter, has suggested that any Bombers players found guilty by will ASADA

[Tony Tea 2,786]

... But if ASADA give six months you can back it in the AFL will turn that into fines and footy department sackings.

[rjay 23,901]

i'm pretty sure that the use of the cream can be found to be 'prohibited' if it was used to enhance performance. For example cold and flu tablets are sold over the counter, but when used in sport is classified as a banned substance due to the pseudoeffidrine.

Whether or not serious injury recovery is performance im not sure.Trengove wasnt putting it on his foot to reduce fat!

Tell me if I'm wrong here but I thought the substance was not specifically banned but because it was not approved for human use it came under a catch all clause. Now it is the case that the injected form falls under the catch all.

The cream is approved for human use so it would not be caught up under this clause.

????

[daisycutter 28,502]

Tell me if I'm wrong here but I thought the substance was not specifically banned but because it was not approved for human use it came under a catch all clause. Now it is the case that the injected form falls under the catch all.

The cream is approved for human use so it would not be caught up under this clause.

????

this has been raised before and so far no-one really knows the answer

some posters have postulated but its just guesswork

i'm surprised the media hasn't explored it