Last week we didn't show any effort.

This week we showed effort.

Therefore, there has been an improvement (given that "showing effort" when previously there was none, is an improvement)

Therefore, it's a positive.

Q.E.D.

Poor effort, such as last week, is way below what's expected at any level, and unecceptable at a professional level such as AFL.

At best yesterday's "effort" may have been better but it's still a negative. Why?.... Because, as Dawes clearly stated in the one of his answers to an "effort" related question... "the effort was there but so it should be at AFL level, we competed hard, we put ourselves in a position to win, but we couldn't win so we can't accept that, now we've got to train ourselves to be better so that we can start winning games".

If last week's effort was a negative and this week's effort was just "there", then what Dawes is clearly saying is that the current level of effort and training is still not up to AFL standard and we still aren't competing at an acceptable level. A level that will allow us to win games of AFL football.

In my mind that still constitutes a negative relative to the level that is required to win games. We lost by 6 goals.

Yesterday's effort may have been an "improvement" on last week, but certainly not a "positive".

QEF

Agree 'Macca'

Dawes spoke about 'effort' being on the players. We saw some effort on Sunday but where has it been before that? These blokes are professional sportsmen and whilst I'm not a big rap for the coach, there's absolutely no excuse for a lack of effort, anytime.

The Richmond game proved that we can give effort. Makes you wonder about the mindset the previous week and certainly in the first 2 games of the season. In all the previous games really, apart from the odd quarter or two. I go through the list and I just see one under performing player after another (in the past year and a third)

We have to show up in all the remaining games of the season. Whilst we'll struggle to get near the top sides, we're not 20 goals worse than any of them. Not in my belief anyway. And we're quite capable of winning games in the 2nd half of the year. We play the Doggies twice, the Lions here and have games against the GCS and GWS. All winnable. The Saints are no world beaters either.

There's such a thing as professional pride. We played ok against the Tigers, but we're still miles off our potential (best)

Yesterday's effort may have been an "improvement" on last week, but certainly not a "positive".

QEF

I was responding to a post that said: "A 6 goal loss is considered a positive because we at least showed effort".

Here "positive" is used in the general sense of "contributing toward or characterized by increase or progression e.g. "take some positive action"". As opposed to your narrow and out-of-context use of positive in its mathematical sense of "real and numerically greater than zero".

i think give him another year

i think give him another year

'You can not be serious!' (Apologies to John McEnroe.)

Age and experience of list critical to performance... or even just getting on the field.

Number of games missed by top 10 players in club's 2012 best and fairest (up to Round 7)

23 Gold Coast

22 Western Bulldogs, Melbourne

21 GWS, Port Adelaide

16.5 Collingwood*

16 St Kilda

15 Carlton

14 Adelaide, Essendon

11 Brisbane Lions

9 Fremantle

8 Geelong

8 Richmond*

7 North Melbourne

6 Hawthorn, West Coast

2 Sydney Swans

Dawes spoke about 'effort' being on the players. We saw some effort on Sunday but where has it been before that? These blokes are professional sportsmen and whilst I'm not a big rap for the coach, there's absolutely no excuse for a lack of effort, anytime.

The Richmond game proved that we can give effort. Makes you wonder about the mindset the previous week and certainly in the first 2 games of the season. In all the previous games really, apart from the odd quarter or two. I go through the list and I just see one under performing player after another (in the past year and a third)

We have to show up in all the remaining games of the season. Whilst we'll struggle to get near the top sides, we're not 20 goals worse than any of them. Not in my belief anyway. And we're quite capable of winning games in the 2nd half of the year. We play the Doggies twice, the Lions here and have games against the GCS and GWS. All winnable. The Saints are no world beaters either.

There's such a thing as professional pride. We played ok against the Tigers, but we're still miles off our potential (best)

+1 Macca

Age and experience of list critical to performance... or even just getting on the field.

Number of games missed by top 10 players in club's 2012 best and fairest (up to Round 7)

23 Gold Coast

22 Western Bulldogs, Melbourne

21 GWS, Port Adelaide

16.5 Collingwood*

16 St Kilda

15 Carlton

14 Adelaide, Essendon

11 Brisbane Lions

9 Fremantle

8 Geelong

8 Richmond*

7 North Melbourne

6 Hawthorn, West Coast

2 Sydney Swans

Interesting, but no real meaning - the top 10 at each club are of differing abilities - the comparison can not be made.

I was responding to a post that said: "A 6 goal loss is considered a positive because we at least showed effort".

Here "positive" is used in the general sense of "contributing toward or characterized by increase or progression e.g. "take some positive action"". As opposed to your narrow and out-of-context use of positive in its mathematical sense of "real and numerically greater than zero".

Where did you get that it was a mathematical positive i was portraying? It was your comment that Sunday's result was a "positive" that i was responding to.

The effort shown last Sunday went someway towards what most AFL clubs put in effort wise pretty much every week. A partial return to something like normal proceedings. This effort, and better, should have been there most matches we've played this year, but for some reason it unfortunately hasn't.

Dawes's response in the press conference clearly indicated he was still very unhappy with what he's seen out there in his 2 weeks so far and that he wont let up on it until his fellow players deliver. In other words, where's the intensity/urgency in this mob? It should be there as a given is what he is saying. Why should the coach have to coach it!!?? He shouldn't. But why the hell hasn't it been addressed until now by the coach & FD? This part is called motivation/inspiration/communication. Maybe Neeld just doesn't have it. For me what Dawes said in 2 or 3 lines yesterday made it clear exactly what was needed, whereas Neeld tip toed around the tulips on the same topic and never really got his message across clearly (for me). Maybe this is what the player group is struggling to come to terms with. Poor communication/connection/motivation skills?? Doesn't instill "Belief" in the playing group? I have no idea. But something is obviously amiss and has been until Sunday anyway. Maybe Dawes gave them a rev up pre match lol!!

The fact that some Demon supporters consider Sunday's effort a positive is a sign of how apathetic and easily pleased some have become. I guess with decades of under performing it's now conditioned in some supporters to get excited when they see our team performing somewhere towards the levels expected in the AFL.

I hope you're not one of those Bing. Pretty sure you want higher standards on the field than we've seen this year like most footy supporters.

i think give him another year

hey I'm with you on Neeld

Why oh why ...

His point is that if the players are going to do what they need to do to and at least perform to a minimal level, then he and the rest of the FD can concentrating on what they should be concentrating on, which is ... "coaching". As opposed to going back to square one and having to spend their time focusing on the (very) basics. This is the point that Dawes backed him up on, that the coach shouldn't have to be spending his time on the basics like "effort" etc.

That is an interesting, and different slant on Dawes' comments. I saw it as a bit of a contradiction of Neeld in a way.

Where did you get that it was a mathematical positive i was portraying? It was your comment that Sunday's result was a "positive" that i was responding to.

I didn't say that Sunday's result was a positive, I was commenting on ... oh forget it.

Latest article from Barrett regards Neeld.

Quotes..

Is there conviction you and the club are on the right track? "Absolutely."

Anything you would change from the time you started? "No, not one thing."

What if the club didn’t let you see out your contract? "I'd be absolutely shocked."

Full article http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-22/whats-all-the-fuss-neeld?utm_medium=RSS

Please don't make me read Barrett again but he had it right with his last sentence:

But when it's all said and done, he's got, at best, 14 matches of footy to convince Jackson that his words will be reflected in his players' actions.

his papers were stamped after the 148 debacle, and the Suns loss was just a reminder hes 100% gone.

Hopefully the gun players who might want out (Sylvia, Watts, Frawley) will get wind that we have a verbal agreement behind the scenes with someone like Roos or Choco to coach in 2014.

Otherwise we can kiss goodbye to our good players

Please don't make me read Barrett again but he had it right with his last sentence:

This is a better quote

You are being generous by saying "becoming a slide show"

I think we are pretty much there and we are the main act!

We're not playing well and we're losing games. This club has done a lot right over the past couple of years.

Hearing gary ablett signed with the dees would still upset me coming from damien Barrett.. cannot stand him.

Barrett is a mind-boggling terrible writer.

How these flogs get paid to write is way beyond me to answer.

This article appears more as notes from an interview rather than a carefully thought-out piece. As they all do.

If we have a big loss to Freo surely he will be gone next week.

hey I'm with you on Neeld

I wish you luck, but it won't happen. Losing to the Suns the way we did stamped his card.

Latest article from Barrett regards Neeld.

Quotes..

What if the club didn’t let you see out your contract? "I'd be absolutely shocked."

Full article http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-22/whats-all-the-fuss-neeld?utm_medium=RSS

He would be shocked if he didn't see out his contract, hmmm I would be and I think most of us would be flabbergasted if he does see out his contract.

Me thinks he has a screw loose.

He would be shocked if he didn't see out his contract, hmmm I would be and I think most of us would be flabbergasted if he does see out his contract.

Me thinks he has a screw loose.

Well, he'll be able to say upon being sacked - I didn't see that coming

If we have a big loss to Freo surely he will be gone next week.

Why 'surely'?

I just do not see Jackson making a call on the coach before August.

Why 'surely'?

I just do not see Jackson making a call on the coach before August.

You may be correct 'rpfc', but how many players will we lose as 'collateral damage'!