Neeld apologists ... state your case.

[Demonic_Inferno 17]

Paul Roos is sitting here with his son two tables away from me in Clarendon St, South Melbourne. I could ask him if he'd be interested in coaching the Dees but he might suspect it has something to do with today's date.

[P-man 13,366]

Paul Roos is sitting here with his son two tables away from me in Clarendon St, South Melbourne. I could ask him if he'd be interested in coaching the Dees but he might suspect it has something to do with today's date.

Ask him jokingly. If he doesn't choke on his food, we're in.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Paul Roos is sitting here with his son two tables away from me in Clarendon St, South Melbourne. I could ask him if he'd be interested in coaching the Dees but he might suspect it has something to do with today's date.

Kidnap his son! We at Demonland will take shifts in making sure his son is not harmed and promptly returned once Paul has delivered some success.

[DemonWA 3,929]

One game into the season

[Macca 16,922]

Neeld 'is what he is' and nothing is going to change. He's not suddenly going to change his coaching philosophy's and let the team play in a far more enterprising way with an instinct to attack with flair and purpose. It ain't going to happen. If it were to happen we would have seen evidence of it in the last 3rd of last season.

Besides which, he's been drilling the players 24/7 into playing 'his way' so much, that they're most possibly incapable of change - at least under him anyway. No .... what you see is what you get and we can expect more of the same unfortunately. He's is so tunnel visioned with his beliefs that he's probably convinced himself that he can't be wrong.

Things could get so bad that it could easily become a lot harder to recover. We're already in an quite unstable position as a football club and if you think things are bad now, just wait until we put in another 7or 8 'performances' like yesterday. I put it into the '186' class. Perhaps even worse.

As pointed out by quite a few other posters - membership, crowd numbers, future sponsors, ability to attract free agents and so many other aspects of the club will be felt immediately. The truth is, the club lost a truckload of future dollars yesterday. This is a 'right now' issue and to ignore it would be football negligence.

I have nothing personal against Mark Neeld. He's probably a terrific bloke but he is a poor coach. His record speaks for itself. 1 win and 19 losses against legitimate opposition. And a stack of heavy losses amongst those 19 losses. The club is always bigger than any individual. The same rules apply to him as they do to everyone else.

Time for some hard decisions but I'm left wondering if we've got people at the club capable of making hard decisions. I've got zero faith in any of them.

[P-man 13,366]

One game into the season

Covered that on page 1. You're gonna need to bring more than that to the table.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

Really?

In 2010 we had the 8th ranked Defence in the AFL while we used the 3rd most players in the AFL that year, continuing to get games into our draftees.

In fact up until 186 we had the 9th ranked Defence in the AFL in 2011 as well. These were vast improvements on the 2008 and 2009 Defensive rankings of 15th and 15th.

Yes we got blown out against better teams at times but make no mistake, the sacking of Dean Bailey had much more to do with Cameron Schwab's situation than it had to do with the Coaching performance. I don't want to be an apologist for Bailey but like new Governments that blame everything on their predecessor, it's easy to deflect attention by blaming the past. I haven't seen that from Ross Lyon, Sanderson, Hinckley or McCartney at all. They have all put in new systems and within six months showed or are showing now clear direction on where they are going.

On the fitness, it looks to me like we are far more unfit than we were two years ago. I've had the chance to see us train a couple of times over the last two pre-seasons and we do a lot of middle distance type running. I'm not sure how much this actually reflects game running where players have to sprint then be involved in the play then work back to their position then go again. It's no wonder we looked one-paced yesterday when Port were able to burst away from us.

I agree that plenty of the decision to sack Bailey comes from Schwab and the Board's situation at the time. That doesn't mean Bailey wasn't a bad coach. Those defensive statistics surprise me somewhat - are you using points against? Our defence was always OK under Bailey, and in fact is still OK. The problem was that the midfield had no defensive capabilities, the same issue that we have now.

Saying that Hinkley has showed a new clear direction is a bit ridiculous - they've played one game, against us. What if they come out next week and get belted? As for the others, Lyon took over a team that, injuries aside, would have been playing finals anyway, Sanderson took over a team led by Neil Craig, meaning that if they were nothing, they were at least a fit and developed list, and McCartney also had a year of completely sucking, just like Neeld, and thus didn't show anything within his six months, or at the very least, showed no more than Neeld.

I accept that Neeld is struggling; no one denies that. But the fundamental difference between us and those other clubs is that our list had no stars, had no fitness base, had no game plan, and had no structure to it. To ask someone to come in and overhaul us is a big job. Yes, he is struggling, and there are plenty of things we could be doing better aside from merely pushing up the ladder, and yes, I'm disappointed in Neeld to date. But I do not agree that his job is comparable to any other coach's.

[thaipantsman 180]

I've been in that school of thought all along but I watched a team today that had unquestionably gone backwards in its application, fitness and overall development. I can only judge on what I saw. If this is considered knee jerk then so be it, but we faced a young and inexperienced side with a first year coach and got completely annihilated.

The buck has to stop with the coach to a large degree. It has to.

I can't defend him. He can't coach.

Again we've been duped by platitudes.

And Garry Lyon should never ever have anything to do with the club in an administrative capacity ever again.

Sack Neeld.

Big turnaround in opinion rr . Only one match in. I believe Neeld to be a passionate fellow but lacks a mentor at Melbourne . Could you imagine tombe the mist fighting batman? This is where we are at with Neeld up against shrewd coaches like longmuire, Malthouse , sheedy(Gws looking competitive now) the Scott's etc...

He is learning. Q is how long do we wait?

[stuie 7,374]

One game into the season

Correct, and Hinkley looked the goods didn't he?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Let's be clear with a few things.

Neeld inherited the worst list in the AFL. He still has the worst list in the AFL; there's only so much you can do in 18 months. What Dean Bailey did to this club will be felt for years to come.

Having said that, Neeld has to take responsibility for coaching a side that continually fails to be competitive. All summer we heard about how we were aiming to be more competitive, about how we were aiming to win more quarters and lift our intensity and be harder and tougher. He's failed on all those counts. To come out in Round 1 of your second year after a year of complete crap and to show no visible sign of improvement, and to look exactly like you did the year before, is the fault (in part, at the least) of the coach.

If we 2013 goes like 2012 (not many wins, but worse, continually lacking in effort), there have to be serious questions over his position. But that shouldn't happen right now. We gain nothing by changing coaches right now. It may end up being the case that we gain a lot come the end of the year.

That's true, but he's made it worse with some bizarre pick ups in the draft and some questionable de-listings.

We seem to have [censored] off every senior players at the club.

[dpositive 1,663]

I have struggled to read through all the comments on most threads and am hesitant in commenting Coz didnt see the game and have had very little exposure to any comment other than Dland.

I am not a Neeld apologist but have been supportive of his actions as they seemed to have some consistency with his comments.

I was always concerned that he seemed to be focused on his plan and was recruiting and dispensing players to that plan. I was concerned that he did not seem to appreciate the differences of players and seemed to want to mould them all into his ideal. I was concerned that he did not acknowledge improving what he had but rather turning over and replacing. ie developing which should be the cornerstone of the coach.

I was happy however with the flexibility he showed and the recruiting seemed to have focus.

I had always expressed a desire to see plans ABCDetc and was excited by the potential

I have supported Melbourne long enough to see various plans and various levels of success although no flags in my adult life

I accepted the direction of the club even the bloody blazer debate

I have enjoyed dland and the obvious passion of the committed members

I am really worried about the sentiments expressed here but understand them as I am a touch despondent myself.

However I would not sack the coach anymore than I would sack Sylvia (who represents a lot of the unfulfilled expectation)

Using Sylvia as and example he could be anything but if he fails at this club he will likely not attract a huge price at any competitor this applies to Neeld and every other player.

I have expressed disatisfaction with the fact it takes players time to get the message as they are profesionals and so is the coach and administrators.. They must get it right to receive the remuneration they are getting. Neeld has a contract based on his presentation which hopefully included some outcome measurements including success if he doesnt achieve he would not be extended and we should try and recruit a coach with a different plan. As has been stated Port seem to have picked up Hinkleys message .

However we really wont see for a few matches yet and it may even be beyond round 6 or 7 it may be not eeven known until very late in the season so I would merely remind them as a group and individuals that they are playing for their future, the future of the supporters,and the future of the club.

I would like to think we can continue but I have seen mergers and relocations I have seen Fitzroy.It is certainly an exciting time.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

I have nothing personal against Mark Neeld. He's probably a terrific bloke but he is a poor coach. His record speaks for itself. 1 win and 19 losses against legitimate opposition. And a stack of heavy losses amongst those 19 losses. The club is always bigger than any individual. The same rules apply to him as they do to everyone else.

.

Looked into the 1/19 a bit deeper.

Points for - 1307 (ave 65.35)

Points against -2302 (ave115.1)

% over these 20 games 56.78%

No scores above 90 points, 4 in the 80s, 5 in the 70s, 3 in the 60s, 4 in the 50s, 3 in the 40s and a score in the 30s.

In 16 out of 20 games, our opponents have scored over 100, 3 scores in the 80s and one ine the 50s.

Hard to sugarcoat such damning stats

[Buffalo 203]

I have a feeling last year was even worse than the stats suggest...In most games the opposition cleared out early and just coasted for the rest of the game. The MFC coaches hung their hat on those quarters (usually the 3rd or 4th) saying we were at least competitive in them. Uh! no we weren't....we were allowed to be competitive by the opposition.

And while I'm at it, let me say I CANNOT believe Brian Royal is our midfield coach and WHO ON EARTH signed Mark Jamar to a 3 year deal? Surely not on the recommendation of Neeld!

Edited April 1, 2013 by Buffalo

[Genevieve 3]

I totally agree with you Muvver. Like a rotten fish our club rots from the head down. The common denominator in all of these years is the ppl at the top. Only they don't realise it's them and look to blame or sack everyone else instead. It's almost funny except it's not, it's so pathetically bad.

If neeld can't turn this around, hes just another bad decision we've made. Like half our recruitment decisions...we seem to want the players/coaches no one else cares about. Yet he has come into a losing culture club, it's probably rubbed off on him. No excuse but it all adds to it.

[P-man 13,366]

I have a feeling last year was even worse than the stats suggest...In most games the opposition cleared out early and just coasted for the rest of the game. The MFC coaches hung their hat on those quarters (usually the 3rd or 4th) saying we were at least competitive in them. Uh! no we weren't....we were allowed to be competitive by the opposition.

And while I'm at it, let me say I CANNOT believe Brian Royal is our midfield coach and WHO ON EARTH signed Mark Jamar to a 3 year deal? Surely not on the recommendation of Neeld!

Further to that, there's the argument Neeld's had one legitimate win. That win was earned LARGELY on the back of poor kicking for goal on the part of Essendon. There's an argument for zero legitimate, well coached wins against respectable opposition.

Royal is useless. Our midfield is absolutely deplorable.

[Macca 16,922]

Looked into the 1/19 a bit deeper.

Points for - 1307 (ave 65.35)

Points against -2302 (ave115.1)

% over these 20 games 56.78%

No scores above 90 points, 4 in the 80s, 5 in the 70s, 3 in the 60s, 4 in the 50s, 3 in the 40s and a score in the 30s.

In 16 out of 20 games, our opponents have scored over 100, 3 scores in the 80s and one ine the 50s.

Hard to sugarcoat such damning stats

Yep, but it's not just the coach who has to improve immensely. The Board, the Administration, the Football Dept with all the coaches and all the players all have to lift their game immeasurably. They're all on notice.

Many of us were of the belief that if we got rid of Bailey then that would fix most of our problems. History tells us that the problems run a lot deeper than just the head coach.

This time around, everyone at the club has to put their hand up. Will they do so? Unlikely. Self preservation will probably kick in again.

This is a hindsight comment but we should have had a total clean-out after '186'. Bailey and later on, most of assistants copped it in the neck but it wasn't enough at the time. We only made 4 or 5 changes to our list at the end of 2011 and many of us couldn't figure that bit out. Neeld should have cut deep as soon as he walked into the club. The fact that he didn't might ultimately hurt him.

Neeld is now coaching on the edge and that's a good thing in my opinion. It's best to see how good people are when they're under extreme pressure. He might surprise us. I don't necessarily believe in the bloke but we've all seen people come good under pressure. Up until now he's coached poorly but he's probably got at least half a season to get a lot better.

Let's see what he's made of.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Macca

[kallangurdemon 551]

I am well aware of the areas where the team is deficient and it is silly to distance Neeld from these deficiencies However.Is there any area where the team has improved as a unit ?.I note that a couple of individuals in Nathan Jones and T mac( although he drops easy marks at the worst possible times )have improved but is there any quantifiable improvement as a team in any area at all ?.I have heard all the hype and spin from Mark but it appears that when it is all said and done a lot more is getting said than done .

[P-man 13,366]

I am well aware of the areas where the team is deficient and it is silly to distance Neeld from these deficiencies However.Is there any area where the team has improved as a unit ?.I note that a couple of individuals in Nathan Jones and T mac( although he drops easy marks at the worst possible times )have improved but is there any quantifiable improvement as a team in any area at all ?.I have heard all the hype and spin from Mark but it appears that when it is all said and done a lot more is getting said than done .

He's convinced the players they are a clean slate with everything to learn. They've clearly believed it, because they're playing like it.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

If all the talented players in the AFL wanted out because their club was near the bottom we wouldn't have much of a competition left, would we? People of character stick when the going is toughest. Seems like he has a touch of the Moloney's

If you knew your workplace was going bankrupt and you had an opportunity to go somewhere else, would you?

Yes footy is not a normal job, but to these players, it is their job, their livelihood, and they all want to be successful.

Some are crap players and should be so lucky to play for a crap team where they can get a game, but some, like Frawley, would walk into any side and win games. Maybe premierships.

Human nature suggests that when you have no hope where you are, you look to get out, go somewhere better.

Do you blame Rivers for leaving? I don't.

Would I blame Frawley for leaving? Not if he went to a successful club in search of a premiership (leaving for money is a different story).

Bottom line is, good players who have regressed under Neeld will want to leave. It makes sense, and it's frightening.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

What I don't understand is port has a new coach and they're not losing by 70 points, Port have the second youngest list in the league now.

Last season we were in that position and we got smacked week in week out.

I want to know how the [censored] did we lose to this team and by this much?

They have got to turn it around next not just for the supports but for them selves.

[Sir Why You Little 36,979]

What I don't understand is port has a new coach and they're not losing by 70 points, Port have the second youngest list in the league now.

Last season we were in that position and we got smacked week in week out.

I want to know how the [censored] did we lose to this team and by this much?

They have got to turn it around next not just for the supports but for them selves.

rotting fish still exist.

[P-man 13,366]

What I don't understand is port has a new coach and they're not losing by 70 points, Port have the second youngest list in the league now.

Last season we were in that position and we got smacked week in week out.

I want to know how the [censored] did we lose to this team and by this much?

They have got to turn it around next not just for the supports but for them selves.

That is at the heart of why this has blown up. If it was Hawthorn it would've been expected, but to completely roll over against Port at home says something is majorly wrong.

[Pitchy 196]

Neeld could not have done worse since he started. But who do we bring in?

Maybe Paul Roos? But then Bails had his measure...

Sunday, 25 July 2010 (2:10 pm) Melbourne 22.10 (142) def. Sydney 10.9 (69) MCG (crowd: 29,374)

How divergent have the roads been for these two clubs? We were the club with the exciting list the positive future etc...

Maybe we should stick with Neil Craig. But then Bails had his measure...

Sunday, 8 May 2011 (2:10 pm) Melbourne 22.17 (149) def. Adelaide 8.5 (53)

MCG (crowd: 19,987)

We had a promising young list which was at least living a thump or be thumped year in 2011 under Bailey. A young team gets thumped but shows something occasionally and whacks teams. 8 1/2 wins in 2011. AWM 35+ points. Neeld has bled the list of talent while drafting in mature age mediocrity. We will be bottom of the ladder this year or just above GWS.

Can't do it after round 1 but bring in a new coach and CEO sooner rather than later please. If we get to 1-6 then pull trigger.

[rjay 24,883]

First of all it was wrong for the club to decide under Neeld that it would strip things back and throw all the Bailey years out with the bathwater and start again. Clubs like Sydney and North knew they could not afford to bottom out and get high draft pocks yet here they are diligently making subtle changes to their list and getting better. In retrospect Hawthorn is the only team that has really bottomed out got high draft picks and done that successfully.

The club is paying a heavy price as supporters and sponsors have had enough and are proving exactly what Sydney and North feared, if you stay down too long you become irrelevant and just cannot get up of the canvas.

As much as I dislike Neeld, all show and no substance who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk, I cannot see any value in sacking him unless there is a Dennis Pagan like coach waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces as North did all those years ago pre season. The admin made a mistake, the wrong coach was selected, the strategy was high risk and has failed and the club has slipped back lower than pre Bailey all easy in hindsight, so we have to move forward and this year is going to be bad, really bad but wait till years end to make change at all levels!

I would suggest a coach for the future though.. Junior McDonald, currently learning about the caper under Sheedy, in his second year as an assistant coach and a tough uncompromising leader who should never have been treated with such disrespect by the club.

That's the problem, we did the same thing under Bailey. The same person is in charge of the club and this is how he operates, do we have time for another failed rebuild.

The club is paying to heavy a price to protect one man at this football club and it should not be happening.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I really am not sure what to make of any of this. However i dont subscribe to the idea that it is as a result of the same ol same ol, whatever that is.

Theres practically a new/refined list. The coaching and support is only a year old. The bigwigs have sweet f-a to do with how the teram is trained and coached so I for one hope some wake up to that and stop this lingering get rid of the CEO and president crap.

It does however weigh and lay squarely on the shoulders of Neeld and his extended family of assistants , both conditioning and coaching.

I saw the team train only a few times before this seasons start and quite frankly wasnt overly inspired. It seemed very mechanical and error laden. Again I reference what i saw across the way with Collingwood and a few steps across the bridge on Punt road corner. These other lots seemed sharper and switched on.

So why are they different ? Neelds pedigree/history shows he CAN coach and PREPARE teams. Alas at Melbourne he, so far , is an abject failure. The first year I'll give him. This year no such allowances, not from me. Honeymoon over, its down to brass-tacks.

How can they all ( but a few) be as a group so utterly pathetic. They can play, all of them, we know this, but fire up ?? Any spark was simply conspicuous by its absence.

Its like someones cast a spell ( or rather a pall ) upon them. its like a rocket that failed to launch, all but sitting motionless on its pad.

I can only hope this Sat-night something goes BOOM. or quite frankly I wont bother for the rest of the season. Hell, if the players cant be stuffed, why should I.McLardy should you read this, just keeps them lips shut mate. Ive followed this team through thick and thin , and now the non-existant years but theres more to life that football and theres certainly better ways to spend time , money and emotional input than to suffer a 1000 deaths each and every bloody week.

I wouldnt mind being on their money, to only give bugger all.. A good lurk if you can get a gig like this.

If i was being employed ( contracted) Id have been cut loose by now. If I was employing id have given marching orders to many. It just isnt good enough

I dont want to hear coaches or players bumbling through pressers anouncing to all and sundry that they havengt got a clue, lest I take them at their word !!

Now just to make it easier on these unenlightened i will give you a clue as to why you played like sh!t. Its because you obviously dont give one !! Well certainly not enough.

I dont even want to hear about playing for the jumper etc. I dont care really. THey can be mercenary for all I care, just as long as they do what they are there to do. ...play football and play it to a competive ( winning ) standard.

Mark, if youre at a loss after this weeks game then step aside. Watts , if you also still are none the wiser , quit.

Ive backed these and many over their respective journeys as being capable and part of a resurgence but maybe Ive simply got it bare-arsed wrong..

I havent given up hope. Sometimes its just an element to ones thinking that can hold you back or perplex you.

A story ( true one as well ) During Cold war the Russians Foxbat fighter was contructed of rather low tech steels and alloys. Its avionics were crude by Western standards. It flew rings around anything the Americans or Euros cared to put up against them.

This had US-Allies confounded. They had tested the known metals on countgelss occasions all resulting with similar data. These planes simply ought not fly that way...so why.

Only many years later, even after the US got hold of a (borrowed ) Foxbat after an Eastern pilot defection , they had a chance to ask one of th senior Rusky designer who also later defected..Why? We tested it, how can it do these things.

The Russian replied with a question. How and wherfe did you test it?

The Americans though, then responded...at our labs and testing facilites !!

Ahhhh !! replied Russian....where ??

Still perplexed the Americand thought hard.. Until one day it clicked. Though tested at the Pasadena Propulsion labs, then the most advanced in world , they had over looked one very simple but important quality to this.

The answer to the Russians question of where ? It was tested at sea level. The Russians had stumbled upon how steel and all metals act differently at altitude and accompanying parameters.

On the ground a Foxbat was junk.... at 20-30000 ft it had no superior.

So here in lies a lesson. You can have al lthe best ingredients and theories but its worth Jack ( except Viney lol ) unless you get the context and combinations right

We obviously havent

If they havent already I suggest to the team they scrap everything they think they know...and start afresh. Use what is undisputable but dont be affraid to think outside the box, for currently we are all in one..... a pine one !!