Re the difference in training:

Both teams trained at a similar intensity but the biggest difference was the pace and delivery compared to us. I agree it is almost impossible to make any definitive statements but the difference was quite stark, no pun intended. They never missed a target once the ball was in the hand of the 'release player'. Couldn't say the same for us.

Comparing our midfield of mostly NQR players and theirs is a painful task. We have players who are physically gifted and hard at the contest but either cannot kick or consistently make the wrong choice. Bail, Nicholson, McKenzie, Rodan, Magner etc all have problems in these areas while some of our more talented players have other dowfalls. Trengove is one paced and Sylvia, our most gifted player, struggles to maintain focus and find the footy.

Jones is as close as we have to an A-Grader but he isnt near the level of Cotchin or dare I say it, Deledio. Both of those players can win their own footy, break lines, bring others into the game and go forward and kick goals. Who can do that for us?

Jones has had to operate singlehanded JJJ. I reckon he has a t least earned his place with those two.

No disrespect JJJ, but you're placing too much emphasis on the comparisons of one training session. I've seen some really good sessions and some not as good; and I'm sure the same can be said of Richmond.

They haven't played finals in donkey's years and lost to the Suns last year, so you'll understand that I don't think they're world beaters off your limited observations. Not withstanding it's what you saw TODAY.

From what I have read our training session today was low-key... We are playing in 24 hours. I have been to enough sessions in January to know that we have been training a level of intensity that would be difficult to top. Yes, we still have weaknesses in delivery, but there will be obvious improvements in endurance, second efforts, game plan, and tackling technique. I think many will be pleasantly surprised.

No disrespect JJJ, but you're placing too much emphasis on the comparisons of one training session. I've seen some really good sessions and some not as good; and I'm sure the same can be said of Richmond.

They haven't played finals in donkey's years and lost to the Suns last year, so you'll understand that I don't think they're world beaters off your limited observations. Not withstanding it's what you saw TODAY.

All things being equal I actually expect the gap between them and us to grow a little this year so JJJ perceptions may ultimately prove to be right? With a third of our list turning over It will take time for players to get used to one another, structures to settle but I'm not overly concerned, the upside is going to be there now the dead wood is gone and we have recruited for a harder edge.

I have been a training watcher for almost 12 months and the difference is marked. I felt today's disposal was slightly shoddy however the session itself was very low key, with Tuesday's session being the main session and intensity and disposal were as good as I have seen it. We are getting there and while the patience line is getting tired it is not as far away as many may believe. The difference in fitness over the last 12 months is chalk and cheese and the skill part is progressing steadily.

Jamar is an excellent tap ruckman.

If you think his taps are ineffectual I think have to look at who he is tapping to.

Our midfield is third world.

I mean, Viney is top 5 in his first year and Toumpas might not be far away.

Jones, Grimes, Trengove, Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia (if you can call him a mid), Blease and...choose your own adventure.

No disrespect JJJ, but you're placing too much emphasis on the comparisons of one training session. I've seen some really good sessions and some not as good; and I'm sure the same can be said of Richmond.

They haven't played finals in donkey's years and lost to the Suns last year, so you'll understand that I don't think they're world beaters off your limited observations. Not withstanding it's what you saw TODAY.

You're probably right but I always thought the training session before the game was usually lower in intensity and allowed the players to perform their skills at their best. We were pretty shabby, they were not.

Nothing to do with today but I have set the bar for this season at a moderately low level. My only hope is that Viney and Toumpas are J.Selwood and Judd like 1st year players.... which is doubtful.

You're probably right but I always thought the training session before the game was usually lower in intensity and allowed the players to perform their skills at their best. We were pretty shabby, they were not.

Nothing to do with today but I have set the bar for this season at a moderately low level. My only hope is that Viney and Toumpas are J.Selwood and Judd like 1st year players.... which is doubtful.

I think you will find Viney very Selwood like in his first year. Toumpas has senior experience and I would hope for something like Trengove in his first year for those who remember before stalling he was a really good first year contributor.

one of the comments I 'accidently' overheard from the RFC staff was that we had a forward line (when fully healthy) that would worry most teams but they thought our lack of midfield power would be our downfall. hardly ground breaking news but when you compare our midfield to the Tiges you see our talent shortfall.

The other thing that was kind of interesting was how the RFC staff critiqued our stoppage work. We set up differently with Jamar than we do with Spencer apparently as Jamar provides more clean ball. One of them who I did not recognise joked that Viney's presence may change that.

Swings and roundabouts..when I compare the Tiges spine to our spine I see a talent shortfall.

Key Defenders: Frawley and McDonald v Rance and Chaplin

Key Forwards: Clark and Dawes v Riewoldt and Vickery

Swings and roundabouts..when I compare the Tiges spine to our spine I see a talent shortfall.

Key Defenders: Frawley and McDonald v Rance and Chaplin

Key Forwards: Clark and Dawes v Riewoldt and Vickery

So, whose are you saying is better? Ours, surely. Give me Frawley and T Mac over Rance and Chaplin any day, and Vickery is rubbish.

They have us covered in the midfield, but there are some unknowns in terms of certain high draft picks pulling their finger out, and the likes of M Jones and Kent being as good in match pressure as they have been in training.

I'm enjoying the excitement before it gets crushed by half time of the first match.

Or not. We shall see. Basic skill errors in a casual runaround concerns me.

But I've never feared either of the teams we're up against and this year is no different. At the very least I am fully expecting our boys to have a serious dip.

Where's moloney when you need him?

Our list is improved but it has not been transformed into world beaters.

I am just reminding everyone to keep a little perspective.

Yes and everyone truly appreciates it...

It may only be a NAB cup game, but we have every reason to be optimistic and excited. This is like a whole new team that's being unveiled, and we expect them to be a whole lot better than what we've seen in previous years.

Where's moloney when you need him?

Where's a hip pocket in a singlet when you need it? Or [censored] on a bull?

Actually the latter is a pretty good description of Moloney last season.

How about 2011?

Toumpas over wines will be interesting aswell.

This is like a whole new team that's being unveiled, and we expect them to be a whole lot better than what we've seen in previous years.

Though perhaps not spread across two teams ...

Toumpas over wines will be interesting aswell.

Very intresting.. i watched wines on the weekend and i was very impressed! Just remember we could have had Wines, Toumpas and Viney all at once..

My only hope is that Viney and Toumpas are J.Selwood and Judd like 1st year players.... which is doubtful.

Why is it doubtful?

Jones has had to operate singlehanded JJJ. I reckon he has a t least earned his place with those two.

Couldnt have said it better..

Why is it doubtful?

Selwood had Ablett, Bartel, Kelly, Chappy, Johnson..

Judd had Cousins, Matera, Kerr, Fletcher, Embley..

Viney has Jones.

(Jones had NO-ONE)

EDIT:

My little bro is a North supporter, so i kinda keep an ear out for them in the news etc and chat to him about them..

i reckon theyll push top 4 this year.

Its a bummer we have to play them 1st up.. it may have been a contest against the tiges - both teams fresh.. may have even pinched a win.

But north will be way too good for us and then we play the Tiges in the 2nd game while theyre fresh..

Imo, itll be more about seeing how the newbies go about it and trying to detect some assemblance of the gameplan..

JJJ, on 21 Feb 2013 - 20:48, said:

Re the difference in training:

Both teams trained at a similar intensity but the biggest difference was the pace and delivery compared to us. I agree it is almost impossible to make any definitive statements but the difference was quite stark, no pun intended. They never missed a target once the ball was in the hand of the 'release player'. Couldn't say the same for us.

Comparing our midfield of mostly NQR players and theirs is a painful task. We have players who are physically gifted and hard at the contest but either cannot kick or consistently make the wrong choice. Bail, Nicholson, McKenzie, Rodan, Magner etc all have problems in these areas while some of our more talented players have other dowfalls. Trengove is one paced and Sylvia, our most gifted player, struggles to maintain focus and find the footy.

Jones is as close as we have to an A-Grader but he isnt near the level of Cotchin or dare I say it, Deledio. Both of those players can win their own footy, break lines, bring others into the game and go forward and kick goals. Who can do that for us?

Really think the "release player" issue is a big one. They've had Newman & Deledio for years; we're only just setting ours up now, with Watts & Dunn in relatively new roles, and Strauss just getting going; perhaps Toumpas might come along.

But for this to work, the "release player" needs to get their positioning right, know when to run off their opponent & overlap etc, and their teammates need to block for them & know where to expect to find them without having to think too much. In other words, it takes teamwork - something we've been very poor at for years - plus a lot of practice and many games to get it right.

If we're relying on guys like Nicho & Tom McD and so forth to be "release players" because they're the runners and other teams don't bother to counter them - or if we have our designated "release players" getting away from opponents and teammates not finding them or turning it over - it's going to be a long season.

On the other hand, if we do get better at it, we might snag a few good wins at the end of the season.

I think you will find Viney very Selwood like in his first year. Toumpas has senior experience and I would hope for something like Trengove in his first year for those who remember before stalling he was a really good first year contributor.

Wouldn't mind if Vineys first 100 games are like Selwood's.........3 flags..

Wouldn't mind if Vineys first 100 games are like Selwood's.........3 flags..

Would be good wouldn't it. Let's start with one.

All things being equal I actually expect the gap between them and us to grow a little this year so JJJ perceptions may ultimately prove to be right?

Of course they may. But not off the back of ONE training session.