One of the interesting snippets from the great training reports and the coaches' pre-season reviews is who is training with which group. It seems like 15 players are training with the defensive group - that's a lot to go into 6 spots and there should be some fierce competition - particularly when the ink is drying on 3 spots already with Frawley and Garland retained in the leadership group and Tom McDonald 3rd in the 2012 B&F and by all reports having a cracking pre-season.

Watts, Frawley, Dunn, Strauss, Garland, Tynan, McDonald, Nicholson, Gillies, Macdonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Terlich, Clisby ...

I thought you were going to give a detailed account as to why we shouldn't be found guilty of tanking.

I agree we have an awful lot of 'defenders'.

And I thought this would be about tanking!......

Think guys like nicho, jetta, Strauss, watts etc might rotate between back line and mids, and sellar, Dunn might go,forward at times. but you're right, lots of back line players for only a few spots!

  On 21/01/2013 at 10:52, maurie said:

I agree we have an awful lot of 'defenders'.

They're not that bad ;-)

Nice to see we have the kind of depth that will allow us to use the right horses for the right courses; hopefully now we will be able to compete against most forward lines.

  On 21/01/2013 at 10:49, Fifty-5 said:

One of the interesting snippets from the great training reports and the coaches' pre-season reviews is who is training with which group. It seems like 15 players are training with the defensive group - that's a lot to go into 6 spots and there should be some fierce competition - particularly when the ink is drying on 3 spots already with Frawley and Garland retained in the leadership group and Tom McDonald 3rd in the 2012 B&F and by all reports having a cracking pre-season.

Watts, Frawley, Dunn, Strauss, Garland, Tynan, McDonald, Nicholson, Gillies, Macdonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Terlich, Clisby ...

I agree. Add watts ( as cert to those three) and things get very tight. I'd put Nicholson as my next and it becomes even more difficult. Nonetheless, this is what we wanted (needed). If our list remains injury free then we will will prosper.

I was a big fan of Bartram and was disappointing when he had to retire so early. I always have time for someone who busts a gut for this club. I have to say with the mix of young small defenders who are on the list I think we can cover him and then some.

I am very much looking forward to Nicholson, Strauss, Terlich and Jetta pushing each other all season, trying to push their claim as Bartram's replacement. Hopefully we can find one who is a bit of a bully and can hit a target more often than not!

  On 21/01/2013 at 10:59, Bitter but optimistic said:

I agree. Add watts ( as cert to those three) and thjings get very tight. I'd put Nicholson as my next and it becomes even more difficult. Nonetheless, this is what we wanted (needed). If our list remains injury free then we will will prosper.

Yeah we need pace and run out of the backline. Watts, Nicholson and hopefully Frawley add that .

I had Tappy at half back in that 'best 22 post draft' thread but if we've got a functioning forward line then having Blease in the back half would be a nice little luxury. He's done alright on occasions off half back.

Reality is we need to develop players to able to play in multiple areas of the ground. For instance - the days of Sylvia being plonked on the HFF are probably long gone.

Look at the all round game of Sydney's Ryan O'Keefe. He can play anywhere and has terrific defensive skills.

  On 21/01/2013 at 11:15, Macca said:

Yeah we need pace and run out of the backline. Watts, Nicholson and hopefully Frawley add that .

I had Tappy at half back in that 'best 22 post draft' thread but if we've got a functioning forward line then having Blease in the back half would be a nice little luxury. He's done alright on occasions off half back.

Reality is we need to develop players to able to play in multiple areas of the ground. For instance - the days of Sylvia being plonked on the HFF are probably long gone.

Look at the all round game of Sydney's Ryan O'Keefe. He can play anywhere and has terrific defensive skills.

I like Tappy's muscle and mongrel but if we have a near fit list I reckon he'll be doing duty at Casey.

  On 21/01/2013 at 11:17, Bitter but optimistic said:

I like Tappy's muscle and mongrel but if we have a near fit list I reckon he'll be doing duty at Casey.

Tapscott needs to get better but if he gets a good go at it (injury free) I'm confident he'll be best 22.

He's only 21 years old. Still very young. There were a few getting into Blease on here last year. Sam's curve is upward.

Time will tell.

Actually it gets worse competing for a spot if you happen to be a listed Casey player as Neeld I am sure would be anxious to see the listed Melbourne players given preference. Even allowing for six Melbourne players fronting up for Casey, Strauss, Davis and Clisby would also be keen for a game, though I suppose some could be included as interchange. The other player not listed in the fifteen is our co-captain Grimes or are his days running off the half-back flank now over?

Melbourne Demons Casey Scorpions

Garland, Frawley, Nicholson Terlich, Sellar, Gillies,

Dunn, McDonald, Watts Tynan, MacDonald, Jetta,

  On 21/01/2013 at 11:39, CBDees said:

Actually it gets worse competing for a spot if you happen to be a listed Casey player as Neeld I am sure would be anxious to see the listed Melbourne players given preference. Even allowing for six Melbourne players fronting up for Casey, Strauss, Davis and Clisby would also be keen for a game, though I suppose some could be included as interchange. The other player not listed in the fifteen is our co-captain Grimes or are his days running off the half-back flank now over?

Melbourne Demons Casey Scorpions

Garland, Frawley, Nicholson Terlich, Sellar, Gillies,

Dunn, McDonald, Watts Tynan, MacDonald, Jetta,

I'm not convinced about Dunn. Big body, great kick but doesn't appear to have much brain power. He could get away with it in the past but with increased competition for spots-- i'm not certain.

I think Neeld is a firm believer in the belief that premierships are won from the defence. Depth is critIcal to this.

  On 21/01/2013 at 10:57, DemonWA said:

And I thought this would be about tanking!......

Think guys like nicho, jetta, Strauss, watts etc might rotate between back line and mids, and sellar, Dunn might go,forward at times. but you're right, lots of back line players for only a few spots!

I think the extra depth may be put to use early on in the first half of the season. With some players in & out a few times.

This will cause the players to realise quickly, they have to really make every post a goal.

I imagine after round 10 we would like to settle things down to have a stronger back half of the season.

I wouldn't be surprised, if Watts has beefed up, to start forward on occasions, or sometimes starting Off the wing, drifting to the back to help out.

  Bitter but optimistic said:

I'm not convinced about Dunn. Big body, great kick but doesn't appear to have much brain power. He could get away with it in the past but with increased competition for spots-- i'm not certain.

Disagree BBO. To quote the AFL prospectus-remembering he went into defence after the bye (R12). =8th in the comp for rebound 50's, with 34% resulting in F50 entries - 3rd in the AFL. Ranked 64th for intercept possessions (in only 12 games in defence), with the team scoring 73 pts directly from his attacking chains - the 3rd most in the league (behund only Enright and Maxwell). Was direct with the ball and averaged 3rd most metres per kick of any player in the AFL with his retention rate (ie. not going to the opposition) well above the AFL average. And he also kicked 9.6.

I think he will become a regular.

Last year's premiers Sydney, conceded the lowest score of all teams over the home and away season - a little over 100 points less than their grand final opponents Hawthorn. The credit for that not only goes to the players who took their places in what we traditionally call the six defensive positions but also the others around the ground who, among other things, have to work to ensure that the defenders are not put under pressure to concede scores. Moreover, you have to give credit to the Swans' coaches for putting into place the appropriate strategies to enable the defenders to succeed in a variety of conditions and against different opponents from week to week.

If you look at the Swans' main back six of last year and some of the others who played there from time to time, I don't believe that individually the quality of their players was any better than ours (I think potentially ours can be better) - Richards, Roberts-Thompson, Grundy, Mattner, Johnson, Shaw and Smith all had good seasons in 2012 and it helped that there were no major injuries, but I wouldn't have put them in my list of the top half dozen defences in the competition at the beginning of the year. However, it was the way in which Longmire and co organised the defensive structure and how they worked together as a group and within the wider framework of the team that made the Swans succeed from the defensive point of view and ultimately as a whole to win the flag.

IMO the case for the defence is built therefore on a lot more than the placement of the individuals who fill the 6 spots that we once knew as the backline and half backline.

My God a thread about the players.

Now there is a new idea.

Love it!

I'm aware that players are selected based on matchups, etc, and we'll never play 6 tall backs or 6 small backs in one match, but trying to rank the best 6 out of that group is a challenge.

1. Frawley

2. McDonald

3. Watts

4. Garland

5. Nicholson

6. Dunn

7. Strauss

8. Jetta

9. Terlich

10. Gillies

11. Tynan

12. Macdonald

13. Sellar

14. Davis

15. Clisby

It's nice to see competition for spots and a bit of depth starting to develop. Team selection for Round 1 will be very interesting.

With Toumpas and Viney, we have focussed on getting some good inside midfielders in the draft. I am perplexed as to why everybody is discounting Grimes as part of our backline set-up and insisting that he be inserted into the midfield. in my view, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Neeld has thus far shown a preference for a back 7 with one extra pushing back when possession is lost in the forward half. It's the classic Collingwood under Malthouse structure.

I'd expect Frawley, McDonald and Watts to be certainties, Dunn and Garland likely, alongside Strauss and Nicholson also there as the 'smalls'.

Watts is likely to play that too - think of him matching up on Greene, Swan etc last year - but he got turned inside-out a bit too much for my liking and had goals kicked on him. I prefer Garland in that sort of role, he matches up well on the likes of Milne and other dedicated small forwards.

It's definitely going to be interesting to see how it all comes together down back in 2013.

  On 21/01/2013 at 20:57, CBDees said:

With Toumpas and Viney, we have focussed on getting some good inside midfielders in the draft. I am perplexed as to why everybody is discounting Grimes as part of our backline set-up and insisting that he be inserted into the midfield. in my view, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

...because he played in the midfield last year and is training with the midfield group this year.

i tend to agree that Grimes is a mid now for all intents and purposes. What we have though is a good mid who really understands the defending aspects. On bad days he ought to be able to help beef up the hb line in a get ball , redirect ball mode. I.e a good rebounder

During 2012 our backline was constantly under pressure

The ball was constantly delivered by the opposition midfielders who won way over half the centre clearances.

If we can win a higher rate of the centre clearances and keep the ball in our forward line longer

Then I believe our backline players will look a lot better.

IMO we have a good ( not great ) backline a little help from further a field will make them look a lot better than they did in 2012.

  On 21/01/2013 at 22:11, old dee said:

During 2012 our backline was constantly under pressure

The ball was constantly delivered by the opposition midfielders who won way over half the centre clearances.

If we can win a higher rate of the centre clearances and keep the ball in our forward line longer

Then I believe our backline players will look a lot better.

IMO we have a good ( not great ) backline a little help from further a field will make them look a lot better than they did in 2012.

Spot on 'old dee', I think we will find our backline will become one of the best if they can get some support from further up the field.

I was very pleasantly surprised with Dunn's performance in the backline towards the end of last season. If anyone can remember my opinion of him from his early days you'll realise that it's a big statement from me. Someone earlier mentioned that he isn't smart enough, and when it comes to the pushing and being a general all round dick I agree, however his efforts during play was completely different. He showed great improvement in positioning in marking contests, one on one duels and disposal that sets up an attacking play. If he can continue this improvment who will become a very important player.

I'm very, very happy to be finally proven wrong by him.

  On 22/01/2013 at 00:01, Jarka said:

I was very pleasantly surprised with Dunn's performance in the backline towards the end of last season. If anyone can remember my opinion of him from his early days you'll realise that it's a big statement from me. Someone earlier mentioned that he isn't smart enough, and when it comes to the pushing and being a general all round dick I agree, however his efforts during play was completely different. He showed great improvement in positioning in marking contests, one on one duels and disposal that sets up an attacking play. If he can continue this improvment who will become a very important player.

I'm very, very happy to be finally proven wrong by him.

Dunn is also our MFC player representativer in the AFL players association so the others must think highly enough of him to have him as their representative.