Good article about Tom Hawkins on AFL website. I wonder what Hawkins stats were at 21. I still thin Watts has time. If we are having the same arguments when he is 24 he goes into the fail basket.

Fair?

Good article about Tom Hawkins on AFL website. I wonder what Hawkins stats were at 21. I still thin Watts has time. If we are having the same arguments when he is 24 he goes into the fail basket.

Fair?

Tom Hawkins was imposing himself on contests in his first year.

I think he kicked four or five in one of his early games against us.

JW is not a star and never will be.

I will be watching Jack very closely this year.

I still believe he will be a great player after some Neeld/Misson pre seasons.

As Jack gets older he'll hopefully develop more and more 'go' . It should come with maturity and a more seasoned and hardened body. Some blokes are just born with that manic courage whilst some others take a fair bit of time. Deledio and Goddard play a similar role down back and neither of those 2 are super courageous. Ask any Tiger or Saint fan. But both are really valuable.

Jack needs to get to the stage where he realises "I can do this. I belong here."

Right now, he's still intimidated by the various pricks and hardarses that you find in every club. Eventually he'll learn that most of it's a facade.

It's a race against time for Jack. Who will win? Confident Jack, or shy and retiring Jack?

Tom Hawkins was imposing himself on contests in his first year.I think he kicked four or five in one of his early games against us.JW is not a star and never will be.

I can recall thinking to myself that Hawkins was Soft and a "dud" and he was dropped. Has Watts under performed? Without doubt. Will he be a "star" and kick 600+ goals, probably not. Can he be a weapon for our side in the future in what ever role he plays with elite skills and a cool calm and collected mentality?

In my opinion yes

Jack was a skinny kid when he played his first game against the filth. ( Also remember the p- weak support he got). He is bigger now but not big enough to be a pack busting, stand your ground forward. We have now recruited those big guys. I will be more than satisified if Jack intercepts across half back and kicks long and accurately to a leading Clarke or Dawes or Howe.

Ultimately, that will be his role...as a decision maker with open space.

A 'good, ordinary' footballer. Some on here think he's the messiah.

Fmd.

Its the stigma attached to being a #1 Draft Pick

Denham is paid to give an opinion

I don't remember the last time i agreed with it but i wont lose any sleep over it

It will be Scully's turn soon with the added pressure of being the highest paid VC in the games history

To me Watts is and will always be a Forward

Has to work on 2 things and both are above his shoulders

Accept the game has Physical Encounters

Welcome Physical Presence

Birchall and Enright spring to mind as players Watts could learn from. Not sure they are good ordinary footballers

JW is not a star and never will be.

No he's not and yes he will be

Jack needs to get to the stage where he realises "I can do this. I belong here."

Right now, he's still intimidated by the various pricks and hardarses that you find in every club. Eventually he'll learn that most of it's a facade.

It's a race against time for Jack. Who will win? Confident Jack, or shy and retiring Jack?

There are a number of things to consider but I believe we can't really judge how Jack will turn out until at least the end of the 2014 season. He's got very good basic footy skills so that bit is not an issue.

I believe at under 18 level it's impossible to judge how all players will turn out by the time they reach the ages of 21 to 23. Opinion is still quite divided right now on Jack. Opinion is not so divided with high draft picks from 2006 or earlier. We are generally seeing the finished product so it's a no-brainer.

Like Trengove, Scully and others, we still haven't seen the finished product with Watts. Cook being delisted can cloud people's judgement a bit but I don't necessarily see the comparison. The Cook decision was an internal one and most of us had no clue until very late in 2012 that he was going to be delisted (and not picked up again). The match committee had probably made up their mind early last year about Cook. Same with Gysberts to a certain degree.

If you look at any draft prior to say 2006, then the 'real' order would be quite different every single time. The Draft is littered with odd choices and dud picks. And it will continue to be the case. They keep saying that they're better at judging these kids it but I reckon that's total rubbish. Just more spin.

Every player needs to be judged separately. Jack has got a long way to go but I'm hoping he turns out to be a very good player for us . Star quality, 'A' grade elite ? That may not happen but it depends on your expectations - I won't be disappointed if he's not an absolute star because I never placed those sort of expectations on him. Ditto for Trengove, Sylvia, Hogan, Viney or Toumpas.

Not sure why people continue the basketball speak when talking about Jack. He played as much football as he did basketball growing up.

Happy for Hawkins to show a bit last year after dealing with his share of haters. As long as Jack continues improving I'll be happy.

Bit of a different in the two but so not much point in comparing. Hawkins as always been a physical player as a junior, crunching people in his way. Obviously everyone was his size when he made it with the big boys so it was always going to take time to build more strength and regain his confidence.

Also, Tom also would have been walking a couple inches taller looking around and seeing Mooney, Chappy, Stevey J and Jpod around him knowing if he cops some stick he will be protected. Who did Jack have when he began? Have a look at the 2009 Demons list, he would have walked into a forward line containing the intimidating figures of Robertson, Bate, Green and Maric. Enough to keep any opposition backman sleepless the night before.

Jack was taller and silky as a junior playing a variety of spots. He never imposed himself on games like a Carey or Brown however he dominated them with his speed and agility.

Everyone had this dream we were getting a Carey or Brown player but he was never going to play like these two. The ridiculous expectations we put on him people believe he is soft.

Continually jumping back with the flight intercepting marks in front of opposition players is not soft.

He isn't physical or intimidating but he is not scared to have a go.

Disappointing as a number 1 draft pick he maybe to some but he was clearly the best player at the time. We would have been crazy not to pick him.

Come on Jack! Prove your doubters wrong!!

Not sure why people continue the basketball speak when talking about Jack. He played as much football as he did basketball growing up.

Happy for Hawkins to show a bit last year after dealing with his share of haters. As long as Jack continues improving I'll be happy.

Disappointing as a number 1 draft pick he maybe to some but he was clearly the best player at the time. We would have been crazy not to pick him.

Come on Jack! Prove your doubters wrong!!

Excellent post.

Tom Hawkins was imposing himself on contests in his first year.

I think he kicked four or five in one of his early games against us.

JW is not a star and never will be.

You are welcome to your opinion on JW but you are really re-writing history on Tom Hawkins. First 2-3 seasons he was horrible in most games - in and out of the team and there were more than a few media rumblings regarding trading him.

Everyone had this dream we were getting a Carey or Brown player but he was never going to play like these two. The ridiculous expectations we put on him people believe he is soft.

I must comment on this incorrect assertion. I think most supporters were hoping for a hard running and skilful Nick Riewoldt type forward not a Jono Brown; and it's also worth noting that for much of his career Carey wasn't a crash and bash forward, but more an agile and powerful athletic star.

Jack will successfully intercept a mark if he can cut across in front of a forward and knows there will be minimal contact. However, there are plenty of aerial contests he steers away from. And because you see the odd intercept mark you immediately assume that he does go when he has to, when in reality he picks and chooses. He very much plays the game on his own terms.

I am happy with Jack Watts playing across the back and pushing towards the middle over the next 2 or three years.

Because I know he can transition into a forward without too much difficulty after he is 25 or so.

Plenty of strings to his bow. Unfortunately he probably is a bit smug in thinking the same thing.

You are welcome to your opinion on JW but you are really re-writing history on Tom Hawkins. First 2-3 seasons he was horrible in most games - in and out of the team and there were more than a few media rumblings regarding trading him.

This is my point, and dont be surprised if by the end of this year Hawkins is the best foward in the comp

Could be the next James Hird if he had a large motor.

Ultimately, that will be his role...as a decision maker with open space.

A 'good, ordinary' footballer. Some on here think he's the messiah.

Fmd.

Name one person who thinks that. Just one.

FMD indeed. You are fighting a figment of your own imagination.

And on a factual level, if Jack plays as he described, he'll be markedly better than "good ordinary".

FMD indeed.

Watts strikes me bloke who has gotten everything his way (or the easy way) for a great deal of his life. I hope he doesnt cruise through his AFL career.Hopefully guys like Neeld, Craig, Byrnes & Rodan can get in JW's ear and can teach him what is requried to take his game to another level.

Watts strikes me bloke who has gotten everything his way (or the easy way) for a great deal of his life. I hope he doesnt cruise through his AFL career.Hopefully guys like Neeld, Craig, Byrnes & Rodan can get in JW's ear and can teach him what is requried to take his game to another level.

Well it must be true then.

Have never seen so much shiite written about any footballer in my lifetime. Don't see it about Scully, dont see it about Patten, don't see it about Kruezer.

Give it rest you muppets. He plays for Melbourne. Its a new season. Try just supporting him as a 21 year old.

Watts strikes me bloke who has gotten everything his way (or the easy way) for a great deal of his life. I hope he doesnt cruise through his AFL career.Hopefully guys like Neeld, Craig, Byrnes & Rodan can get in JW's ear and can teach him what is requried to take his game to another level.

^^^ This.

Jack is a very talented Sportsman..He dominated every sport he played at school with natural ability.

Now he must learn to step up mentally.

Name one person who thinks that. Just one.

FMD indeed. You are fighting a figment of your own imagination.

And on a factual level, if Jack plays as he described, he'll be markedly better than "good ordinary".

FMD indeed.

Me. But you need to understand the context of the term "good ordinary footballer". At the risk of preaching to those that already know it was a famous saying of Jack Dyer. He first used it, and it may have been the only time for all I know, to describe Peter Bosustow, who was a very good and flamboyant footballer in the Allen Jakovich mould. It was a tongue in cheek comment. An exaggeration.

When I think of a "good ordinary footballer" I don't think of C graders, or the Rohan Bails of this world, I think of a player that has reached a good standard, perhaps even an A grade standard, but not superstar level. For example Dyer would have called Jeremy Howe a good ordinary footballer and that players in his day took marks like Howe all the time. It was Dyer's sense of humour to downplay what others considered exceptional.

So yea, I hope Watts gets to the "good ordinary" level, because he aint there yet.

Me. But you need to understand the context of the term "good ordinary footballer". At the risk of preaching to those that already know it was a famous saying of Jack Dyer. He first used it, and it may have been the only time for all I know, to describe Peter Bosustow, who was a very good and flamboyant footballer in the Allen Jakovich mould. It was a tongue in cheek comment. An exaggeration.

When I think of a "good ordinary footballer" I don't think of C graders, or the Rohan Bails of this world, I think of a player that has reached a good standard, perhaps even an A grade standard, but not superstar level. For example Dyer would have called Jeremy Howe a good ordinary footballer and that players in his day took marks like Howe all the time. It was Dyer's sense of humour to downplay what others considered exceptional.

So yea, I hope Watts gets to the "good ordinary" level, because he aint there yet.

I believe TimD was referring to the phantom view that 'we all see him as the Messiah' because it is BS and people just say that as a rhetorical device because they can't debate properly.

21yo going on 22 this season, he seems to have grown up quite a bit so I think we will start to see it on ground over the next couple of seasons.

Not every kid comes in as mature and balanced as Trengove.