Where is our negotiating skills? Get them to take our Mortons, Martins, Bates and Gysberts. Not our first round picks

13 for Dawes is overs. Dunn does more damage up forward then Dawes. Considering we gave pick 12 in a much weaker draft for Clark this is way overs.

Presumably to make for Clokes bigger contract? Wellingham wants to go...that's it. Dawes doesn't have to go (tho' Eddie is already talking in past tense).

Sounds about right to me. (P26)

(P26) for Dawes is OK. I'm not too fussed if we get dawes.

But I feel there is other alternatives to dawes, the boy mentioned at Nth, and other short term options.

We shouldn't be too desperado.

13 for Dawes is overs. Dunn does more damage up forward then Dawes. Considering we gave pick 12 in a much weaker draft for Clark this is way overs.

Excellent point.

Thought and examples are useless without sound logic to back it up. You should know that Stu.

And who's this Range Rover guy? You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with him.

Bingo. I just worked out who this "new poster" is. Should have clicked with the anti Watts diatribe. Apologies if this has already been pointed out.

I'm shocked at the numbers that don't want Dawes. The problem the pies had with him is that he didn't have the tank to play that back up ruckman and float up and down the ground. In 2010 he was plonked in the forward line and was awesome. If he gets to play that role again in our goal square with mitch running at crashing packs we could be onto something special. I can't believe how quick players go out of favour, and it seemed the drop in form was mainly due to a role change. I'm backing the Neeldy and the people that actualy matter. I would obviously love to keep pick 4 and use 13 and a player but if wellinghams in I say Get it done.

The problem they had with Dawes is that he had no idea of how to ruck.

The trouble is fitting Wellingham into our midfield. With Viney next year we will have Trengove, Jones, Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia and Howe as possibly in our best 22. One of these players will have to regularly miss out on being selected. Also bear in mind that we have Magner, Tapscott, Taggert and maybe someone like Wines/Stringer (because we will pick up another midfielder). How do we keep all those egos in check when they won't be guaranteed a game every week?

competition for spots in a team is a wonderful thing

Geelong got their flags on the back of stars and those stars have kept them at the pointy end ever since. And those stars have included F/S picks such as Ablett and Scarlett, plus Hawkins. They've also got stars who were top 10 draft picks in Bartel and Selwood. Another of their guns was a former pick 2 in Ottens, who they acquired with two first round draft picks. And yes, they've also drafted well.

Where do you think our "stars" are most likely to come from ? I'll give you a tip. One is also a F/S and the others are likely to be sharp end draft picks. Once you get a few stars on your list it's far easier to regenerate and stay in the game. Adelaide stayed in the game for a decade on the back of their stars in Riccuito, McLeod, Goodwin, Hart ...

Spot on with the Geelong stuff 'Ben', saved me from writing this one up. By the way your idea on the pick 13 / 17 thing is worth some thought.

Would seriously doubt the club if this trade went through, but in saying that I am almost certain it is rubbish. I know we have burnt ourselves in the past wasting high picks, but that is no reason to go start throwing them out the window for one decent B grade mid and an average key forward.

Where is our negotiating skills? Get them to take our Mortons, Martins, Bates and Gysberts. Not our first round picks

You're that thick, that you're surprised that teams are expressing interest in our first round picks, and not our hack players?

Wow. New low. Even for you.

The more I think about the mooted Dawes and Wellingham for 4 or Dawes for 13 trades the more I'm hoping it's a very elaborate ploy by the MFC to show the rest of the comp that we're genuinely prepared to trade our highend picks hoping that other teams will think they can offer us something better than Dawes/Wellingham. Please let this be the case.

I'm definitely in the hang on to all our first 4 picks and then secure Dawes or Pederson another way (Rivers/Moloney compo, Martin trade, third round, later rounder upgrades etc . . ) camp.

For the record, my dream draft/trade period (everyone else is doing it!) is:

Pick 3 - Toumpas

Pick 4 - MD pick (Hogan)

Pick 14 - Stringer/Kennedy/Wines/O'Rourke/Garlett/Menzel/McRae/Vlastuin (in other words - the' slider', in the order listed)

Pick 26 - Viney

Pick 45 - Towers

Pick 64 - Tipungwuti

Pick 82 - James Ives (I'm biased because I know the kid but genuinely think he deserves his shot.

To complement the addition of Byrnes I'd be keen for us to use our Rivers/Moloney compo to secure Dawes. Pedersen as the next option. I'd keep Martin.

Easy.

Three way deal....

Collingwood

Lose- Wellingham + Dawes.

Gain- pick 13 + WC 2nd rounder

West Coast

Lose- 2nd rounder + Koby Stevens.

Gain- Wellingham.

Melbourne

Lose- pick 13

Gain- Dawes + Stevens.

C'mon Dees get it done!!

Pretty sure we would be the big winners out of that!

IMO Hogan at pick 4 would be more beneficial to MFC than Dawes and Wellingham, Dawes, or Wellingham.

IMO Hogan at pick 4 would be more beneficial to MFC than Dawes and Wellingham, Dawes, or Wellingham.

Lose pick 13 for Dawes a better option. Wellingham wants to head West so let him go.

The more I think about the mooted Dawes and Wellingham for 4 or Dawes for 13 trades the more I'm hoping it's a very elaborate ploy by the MFC to show the rest of the comp that we're genuinely prepared to trade our highend picks hoping that other teams will think they can offer us something better than Dawes/Wellingham. Please let this be the case.

I'm definitely in the hang on to all our first 4 picks and then secure Dawes or Pederson another way (Rivers/Moloney compo, Martin trade, third round, later rounder upgrades etc . . ) camp.

For the record, my dream draft/trade period (everyone else is doing it!) is:

Pick 3 - Toumpas

Pick 4 - MD pick (Hogan)

Pick 14 - Stringer/Kennedy/Wines/O'Rourke/Garlett/Menzel/McRae/Vlastuin (in other words - the' slider', in the order listed)

Pick 26 - Viney

Pick 45 - Towers

Pick 64 - Tipungwuti

Pick 82 - James Ives (I'm biased because I know the kid but genuinely think he deserves his shot.

To complement the addition of Byrnes I'd be keen for us to use our Rivers/Moloney compo to secure Dawes. Pedersen as the next option. I'd keep Martin.

Easy.

not bad though Viney won't be around for pick 26. Hogan agreed ! Tournpass(never seen him nor no much about him)or Viney? Can't have both.

13 for Dawes is overs. Dunn does more damage up forward then Dawes. Considering we gave pick 12 in a much weaker draft for Clark this is way overs.

Not sure about that Oli, Neeld sure doesn't agree with you.

its good night from me and goodnight from him

Not sure about that Oli, Neeld sure doesn't agree with you.

Still overs in that Dawes is not a shade on Clark, doubt this or the pick 4 rumour is true tbh

If we give up pick 4 for these two NQRs then I am convinced Neeld is a double agent working for Collingwood.

Utter friggin madness.

Pick 4 should be off the table. Unless you are using it to bring in a star which neither of these players are, we need pick 4 to draft top end talent into the club.

If you go to Ben-Hur's Blue Sky thread (admittedly a bit has happened since that was posted) you can see that the foundation of a good team is there. We need to build on that. In B-H's example he has included a top forward in Cloke. And that team looks good. Put Dawes in there instead and it's far less inspiring.

I believe the club can turn its fortunes around relatively quickly. It will take more than one draft / trade / free agency period though. FWIW when I first saw the list of free agents my initial reaction was meh, I wonder who will be free agents next year. That might be a better time to strike.

I expect us to improve next year if only through better fitness, better understanding of the coach's requirements & better understanding of the games plan. Not a quantum leap though. We'll still struggle but we will see improvement. That's ok. I don't subscribe to the sky is falling, club will fold mentality of some. 2013 I believe will be a launch pad for a sustained period of finals appearances. But we can't afford many mistakes & trading pick 4 for a couple of structural role players would be one of those. Paying over the odds will set us back.

I'm happy to see mature players brought onto the list - but at the right price. I applaud the pickup of Byrnes because he fills a need and cost us nothing. I hope we draft his replacement as well, a Kennedy or Garlett who can learn from him. I'll applaud the recruitment of Dawes if we get him for his right price - a second round pick and / or a player. But if him coming to the club in any way costs us pick 4 I will fair dinkum spew up. Yes he would benefit our structure but I would rather see what Leigh Williams can offer in the big bodied lead-up role than overpay. Who knows what will be available next year. We don't have to fill all the holes in one go.

There's a concern that we can't attract players but who that we've really been after that we've missed. We may not look a great destination at face value but in 12 months I expect us to look quite promising. Mitch Clark came over because he bought into what we were doing. Others will as well, especially if we can show we are on the way back in 2013.

Moneyball gets quoted a fair bit but I prefer another baseball movie. If you build it, they will come. We're in the process of building it. I'm optimistic enough to think that if we don't make many farkups along the way, soon the MCG will once again be our Field of Dreams

Good post biff.

Puts things into good perspective, or at least a perspective with which I agree.

Pick 4 should surely only be even considered for a super star - Pavlich, Tippett, Pendelbery etc type, and not for an OK but surplus off-cast from another club, especially the Pies.

For all the criticism of Byrnes as a has-been, he will bring plenty of experience from a successful team, and work ethic which will help the young mids and forwards, as well as giving us, short term, a quick crumbing forward under Clarke (assuming his foot does come good - little news or rumour around re that by the way).

Interesting thoughts about the forgotten man, Williams. An assessment after full preseason will be interesting. Maybe he will turn out better than Dawes anyway. He certainly seems to have the hunger - maybe a near death experience can do something for the psyche.

If we give up pick 4 for these two NQRs then I am convinced Neeld is a double agent working for Collingwood.

Utter friggin madness.

Agreed. It seems that for once our utter crapness as a club may be our saving grace as it seems us being the ugly one at the dance lessens the chances of players wanting to sign on & therefore those in charge of pissing high draft picks up against the wall.

If the shoe was on the other foot would Collingwood give up pick 4 for Sylvia & S Martin?

If we're going to burn our high picks like that - we should have just kept Barry Prendergast as HOR.

I can't believe we would do this trade as mooted.

If the shoe was on the other foot would Collingwood give up pick 4 for Sylvia & S Martin?

It's a fairly accurate perspective actually, and the very simple answer is no.

Surely this is Collingwoods opening of negotiation, in which our reply has been "definitely interested in discussion but will get back to you, need to know exactly which picks we have after F/S".

Wellingham would easily slot into our midfield, could easily be our 2nd best midfielder as long as he has the passion he had at Collingwood. However I can just picture Dawes being even worse than this year. I'd much rather see a young, fresh READY MADE pick 4 playing in 2012