Nic Nat is a contested ball monster who loves physical contact. Would say the same about Martin?

I reckon NicNat loves to give out physical pressure like jumping over or in to other players or tackling a player with the ball but does he actually go in hard for the ball and is he prepared to cop the same treatment he gives out?

Someone on here made the same observation of Sylvia, he's prepared to dump other players that have gone in to get the ball but likewise is he prepared to be as tough when it comes to putting his head over the ball, that's real physical contact. Look at Jordie Mck he is just as at home tackling as he is being tackled.

Mods, I don't agree with what I consider to be your overly strict censorship but, given how strict you often are, why are you permitting these continued, irrelevant, personal attacks on america de cali?

Is it simply because he has expressed an unpopular opinion or is there some other reason?

This all started when I made the call that TS was well and truly gone around March 2011. Copped heaps of abuse, got flamed and provoked to retaliating and then suspended frequently. I used to be a mild passive sort of poster before then. Funny thing is, all the Melbourne supporters I speak face to face agree with me or mildly disagree in a friendly manner on what I say. Cyber bullies are over rated and really quite harmless because they are mere [censored] in real life.

It would be interesting to know Stef Martins market worth, whether the Pies would be interested, and whether he would save our pick 20 from being used.

I'm a huge wrap for Martin as a #1 ruckman. So much so I'd nearly have been tempted to play him as such over Jamar. Has similiar attributes to Nic Nat without the offensive instinct but able to play in the back half better.

If he was on the table, a little worried we would regret losing him.

I also like Martin certainly worth giving him a specific role and let him grow into it and develop.Another victim of Demons poor development culture

We may be surpised how good he can become

I really hope they keep him

Maybe out of left field, but what about (just thinking aloud) of offering Jamar and the next pick after 20, and keeping Martin as our #1 ruck?

We must consider that part of what Neeld is planning to do is replace some of the lost balance of experience in the list. This brings hardened bodies and a change in the leadership culture.

We have lost Moloney, Junior, Bruce, Green, Rivers? over the last couple of years.

We now have Clarke, Byrnes, Dawes, Ray? coming in to set the example and provide real experience and leadership.

Dawes has a lot to offer our club more than just the onfield stuff.

It amazes me how some people are acting like we should have got Buddy or someone....

We have maximised our position to the fullest and should be really pleased with giving ourselves some chance of being more competitive next year.

Do we have these players? Confirmed deal or speculative.

I would be very surprised if Couch remains on the list beyond 2013.

He was an emergency backup in 2012, and we're about to inject a couple of top shelf young mids who'll be ready to play from day 1.

What is Couch's contract status?

(By the way, is this stall a Chris Dawes thread?)

I see it this way, No he isn't worth pick 20.

He may, however, be worth pick 26, and i would be happy to pick him up for that.

Basically getting Dawes and Viney for picks 20 &26 is a good deal. Considering Viney could have been 5 and Dawes was originally pick 28

We would have traded pick 4 for Wellingham and Dawes (reportedly). What's to stop Collingwood demanding pick 4 for Dawes and pick 17 (which they got for Wellingham)?

So that was in an Emma Quayle article. EQ later wrote that Collingwood was the only pressing for that trade, but it was never even heard out by Melbourne.

It was Collingwood spoof piece. Emma sold her soul to the Magpie.

For a change, I have faith that Melb will get a deal done for whatever is reasonable.

Suddenly this club seems to know what it's doing and how to get it done.

Might take a few days though.

We must consider that part of what Neeld is planning to do is replace some of the lost balance of experience in the list. This brings hardened bodies and a change in the leadership culture.

We have lost Moloney, Junior, Bruce, Green, Rivers? over the last couple of years.

We now have Clarke, Byrnes, Dawes, Ray? coming in to set the example and provide real experience and leadership.

Dawes has a lot to offer our club more than just the onfield stuff.

It amazes me how some people are acting like we should have got Buddy or someone....

We have maximised our position to the fullest and should be really pleased with giving ourselves some chance of being more competitive next year.

That's no my issue with this - I don't mind getting Dawes and can understand his need for our structure. I'm just concerned that we aren't addressing what I see as our biggest deficiency which is our midfield and players with exceptional footskills. But I acknowledge we can fix this up in subsequent drafts and harder bodies on the field should see us be at least competitive in each game and hopefully a bit harder to play against.

Maybe out of left field, but what about (just thinking aloud) of offering Jamar and the next pick after 20, and keeping Martin as our #1 ruck?

Do we have these players? Confirmed deal or speculative.

I did put question marks next to the unconfirmed names...that was my fault obviously being unclear as it distracted you from the point which was senior players have left and there is a need to replace some experience on the list. Bringing in premiership experience from good clubs is better than what we have had.

That's no my issue with this - I don't mind getting Dawes and can understand his need for our structure. I'm just concerned that we aren't addressing what I see as our biggest deficiency which is our midfield and players with exceptional footskills. But I acknowledge we can fix this up in subsequent drafts and harder bodies on the field should see us be at least competitive in each game and hopefully a bit harder to play against.

Agree - it is difficult to fix all the wrongs in one years draft......

Given that we won't have our new recruiting guy until after this year's draft, it looks like we are going after seasoned players, as we know what they can do (apart from Hogan). When the new recruiter comes in, i believe we will then look to invest through the draft, which would appear to be more mids. This is the more preferred option, as mids generally take less time to adjust to AFL than the talls.

I reckon NicNat loves to give out physical pressure like jumping over or in to other players or tackling a player with the ball but does he actually go in hard for the ball and is he prepared to cop the same treatment he gives out?

I reckon you are spot on 'Robbie', he is a great tackler for someone as tall and always tackles low, not giving away free's for a high tackle. When the ball is a contested situation he does hang back though, if he can get it using his natural athletic abilities he will but a hard tough contest he doesn't like.

And Lynch was dropped late last year and decided to leave West Coast because he felt he was being squeezed out, so West Coast can't have been too impressed with his performance. Yet the Pies were very keen to get Lynch to come to them for a specific role that they thought he was better suited to than Dawes. And that role is pinch hitting in the ruck. Dawes doesn't do it well and won't have to at Melbourne.

Neeld coached him and Brown played with him, so let's accept that they're in the best position to judge how beneficial he'll be to our structure. Prior to his fractured knuckle in 2011 he was having a stellar season and it would have required two first rounders to prize a gun young CHF out of Collingwood. Last year he wasn't allowed to play just as a key forward and some players need continuity to reach the required levels of confidence. His stocks having dropped is presently Melbourne's gain. Who knows what he'll be worth again 12 months from now.

My biggest issue is that I was expecting us to draft 3 (hopefully) gun mids in the first round and now at best that looks like being two. But if Trengove steps up to be the player we all expected then that will go a long way to solving our midfield woes.

Neeld was right about Clark, and while I was far more excited about Clark at the time than I am now about Dawes, I'll give Neeld's judgment the benefit of doubt and start getting mildly excited about how he's transforming this playing list.

While i agree that neeld has and is doing a great job of transforming the list i still maintain that pick 20 alone should be enough to get the deal done.

How much more do you think we should be willing to give up in order to get him accross

While i agree that neeld has and is doing a great job of transforming the list i still maintain that pick 20 alone should be enough to get the deal done.

How much more do you think we should be willing to give up in order to get him accross

Pick 20 is more then enough IMO I'd preferably like to see us trade Martin and a 3rd rounder for Dawes

Maybe out of left field, but what about (just thinking aloud) of offering Jamar and the next pick after 20, and keeping Martin as our #1 ruck?

Do we have these players? Confirmed deal or speculative.

Left field or not worthy of consideration Mono

most here know im no fan of Jamar and 3 years was ridiculous for player of little curent worth

I think this trade should get done:

Dawes and Collingwood's second round draft pick to Melb

Pick 20 and Stef Martin.

I think this is fair on both parties. Dawes has far more runs on the board than Martin.

I reckon some people here aren't willing to give up enough for Dawes

20 and later pick swaps OR Martin and later pick swaps.

I want the MFC to be able to get currency for our NQR's like many other teams are.

We can't just rely on high picks, as most years we will not have the picks we do this year.

We need to get value for our NQRs in some form

I want the MFC to be able to get currency for our NQR's like many other teams are.

We can't just rely on high picks, as most years we will not have the picks we do this year.

We need to get value for our NQRs in some form

Which teams are getting value for their NQRs?

And who do you consider our NQRs capable of landing our targets?

for dawes I think pies are after our pick 20 & moloney compo pick (possibly second round)

I would have thought the Filth needed to lift some salary cap pressure. I doubt they could get a Clinton Young if they keep Dawes.

Which teams are getting value for their NQRs?

And who do you consider our NQRs capable of landing our targets?

Ted Richards, Marty Mattner, Ben McGlynn, Shane Mumford, Rhyce Shaw???? Maybe NQR is not the right term, but all are recycled players who were spurned by the previous clubs and I reckon might have done OK this year and before with the Swans.

for dawes I think pies are after our pick 20 & moloney compo pick (possibly second round)

Thre is no compo pick currently. If/ when comes is supposedly Roos bound for Pedersen

How are we able to offer/can they ask for our Moloney compensation pick? We don't even know what it is yet or if it will even be anything. That's a major drawback of this system.

Thre is no compo pick currently. If/ when comes is supposedly Roos bound for Pedersen

pies are being greedy...they want to eat all the pies

How are we able to offer/can they ask for our Moloney compensation pick? We don't even know what it is yet or if it will even be anything. That's a major drawback of this system.

compo is announced this friday. we have another two weeks of trade period?