Eagles have asked for 44 for former high draft pick and 21 year old Koby Stevens. Dogs offering 51. We are being told 49 is not enough for a 26 year old who has played only 16 games and 2 this year. He is another Sellar type. If the Age is correct we are looking to give a 2nd rounder for him. What the hell is going on? Do we know how to negotiate? We paid overs for Hogan according to the Martin deal and clearly overs for Dawes.

We need mids. I would approach Stevens and if we can convince him to come, offer the 49 for him or someone like Bennell and then the next pick for Pedersen. If North don't like it stiff. They are reputedly desperate to get rid of him.

Good point I would much rather Stevens for bennell and 49 than paying a 2nd rounder for pederson

Agree. Tell them 49 monday or deal off and we move on and find a another mid.They will grab it with both hands. Unbelievable, we lose Rivers and Moloney, the top 2 in 2011 B & F for a bloke that is 26 and played 16 games and only 2 this year.

Agree, NM will eventually settle for #49 if we play hard ball.

It doesn't appear that we have any intention of using a draft pick (other than 4) below about 60 (which we may just use to upgrade rookies), so the difference between a second and third round pick is, for us, pretty much zero.

If we can move Martin on for an upgrade to a second round pick then everyone wins. We get the player we want (Pederson) for a draft pick we won't use (49) and a player who unwanted yet unfortunately contracted.

I agree, actually think that we should be looking to keep 49 now and offload the pick we got from the Pies for Pedersen (58 wasn't it?)

Unless we get added into a couple of 3 way trades, a second round pick is overs IMO

Unbelievable, we lose Rivers and Moloney, the top 2 in 2011 B & F for a bloke that is 26 and played 16 games and only 2 this year.

You probably need to add Byrnes to that equation.

My understanding is Pederson lack of games is more a clash of personalities than performance.

So it's ok for Sydney and co to target players who they want to fill a need and have succeeded but we cannot think I will leave it up to the club!!

Eagles have asked for 44 for former high draft pick and 21 year old Koby Stevens. Dogs offering 51. We are being told 49 is not enough for a 26 year old who has played only 16 games and 2 this year. He is another Sellar type. If the Age is correct we are looking to give a 2nd rounder for him. What the hell is going on? Do we know how to negotiate? We paid overs for Hogan according to the Martin deal and clearly overs for Dawes.

We need mids. I would approach Stevens and if we can convince him to come, offer the 49 for him or someone like Bennell and then the next pick for Pedersen. If North don't like it stiff. They are reputedly desperate to get rid of him.

You've obviously never seen Pedesen play. He's far better than Sellar. It's a bit of a mystery that he hasn't had more of a go at North, but when they've got Petrie, Tarrant and Hansen all in the forward line, plus Aaron Black developing it makes some sense.

Pedersen appears to me to be the classic money-ball player. Despite only playing 16 games his numbers are very good. In his last 12 games of AFL footy he's hit the scoreboard 11 times and kicked 3 goals three times. I reckon he'll be a great get for the Dees.

And I don't think we paid "overs" for Hogan. For me he was a "whatever it takes" assignment. We clearly did a deal with GWS that allowed us to get Viney at 27 and some rate Barry as a second round quality pick, so dropping 7 spots to get him and making sure of Hogan, with Viney at 27 is great trading. When Hogan becomes the dominant CHF of his decade you'll consider it a small price to pay. And there's no way the club gives up what it did if they too didn't envisage this type of quality player.

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And I don't think we paid "overs" for Hogan.

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Agree. We effectively gave up pick 3 for Hogan, and 13 for Dawes and Barry. Given Dawes was a main target, and we had no available picks between 4 and 48, excepting 13, I think they dealt pretty well.

I'm not really fussed how we get the Pederson and Ray deals done.

We are going to be out of the draft after the Viney pick, unless we somehow nab another live pick from 27-40 and there is a kid worthy. Otherwise anything past Viney I think will be used to upgrade rookies.

What the hell is going on? Do we know how to negotiate?

Viney at pick 27?

The final 2nd round pick is # 45. So its hard to believe that NM are getting all antsy about # 49 for Pedersen. Would it make much difference if we were able to get # 44? Emma is pretty good at researching before going to print so hope its just posturing by NM.

Hope we weren't silly enough to offer a 2nd round pick without knowing our FA compenstion. Hope we were smart enough to offer our FA pick whatever it ends up being, so now NM can take it or leave it.

I am getting doubtful about how savvy our negotiations have been...playing our cards too early or playing cards we don't have. It cost us in the Dawes deal and it may cost with Pederson.

The final 2nd round pick is # 45. So its hard to believe that NM are getting all antsy about # 49 for Pedersen. Would it make much difference if we were able to get # 44? Emma is pretty good at researching before going to print so hope its just posturing by NM.

Hope we weren't silly enough to offer a 2nd round pick without knowing our FA compenstion. Hope we were smart enough to offer our FA pick whatever it ends up being, so now NM can take it or leave it.

I am getting doubtful about how savvy our negotiations have been...playing our cards too early or playing cards we don't have. It cost us in the Dawes deal and it may cost with Pederson.

In who's opinion yours, MN has targeted players he wants not what supporters want and thank christ for that.

I am getting doubtful about how savvy our negotiations have been...playing our cards too early or playing cards we don't have. It cost us in the Dawes deal and it may cost with Pederson.

Please elaborate. Besides from media speculation, which is all any of this is, what have we done wrong? And how did we stuff up the Dawes deal?

I agree, actually think that we should be looking to keep 49 now and offload the pick we got from the Pies for Pedersen (58 wasn't it?)

Unless we get added into a couple of 3 way trades, a second round pick is overs IMO

Fully agree. Pederson at 58 is the lowest we should go. If Koby Stevens is in Neeld's sights, offer 49 with or without Bennell.

We paid overs for Hogan with 3 &13 (with Barry) . Most notable phantom drafts have him (Barry) as a late pick. Pick 3 should have been enough for Hogan not tied in with pick 13.

This is the way.

Dees " you want rid of Pedersen..fine. Heres p70 and weredoing you a favour"

North" but we want...... "

Dees" there is no discussion , thats the offer. Take it or leave it. We have others to talk to. Decision by 2pm Monday please "

Thats all. You have to be able to walk away from any deal otherwise its a bad deal.

That rule 1 of bartering.

Dont stuff it up NOW Dees !!!

Fully agree. Pederson at 58 is the lowest we should go. If Koby Stevens is in Neeld's sights, offer 49 with or without Bennell.

We paid overs for Hogan with 3 &13 (with Barry) . Most notable phantom drafts have him (Barry) as a late pick. Pick 3 should have been enough for Hogan not tied in with pick 13.

Put it another way --- Viney + Hogan + Barry = 3 + 14 + 27 --- not so bad

There was a "deal" done you know

NO one else is after Pedersen . We control the cards! Simple as.

Fully agree. Pederson at 58 is the lowest we should go. If Koby Stevens is in Neeld's sights, offer 49 with or without Bennell.

We paid overs for Hogan with 3 &13 (with Barry) . Most notable phantom drafts have him (Barry) as a late pick. Pick 3 should have been enough for Hogan not tied in with pick 13.

Not if that bargaining position meant missing out on Hogan, it wouldn't! ......... and whose to say we didn't rate Barry much higher than "most notable phantom drafts"? .......... also, have a listen to what Shifter Sheahan has to say about Barry at 1.45 of the clip in post #1 on the Barry vs Jetta thread.

Edit: Added last sentence.

Not if that bargaining position meant missing out on Hogan, it wouldn't! ......... and whose to say we didn't rate Barry much higher than "most notable phantom drafts"?

In actual fact we used pick 3 on Viney and pick 26 on Hogan plus Barry.

Does that make you feel better?

In actual fact we used pick 3 on Viney and pick 26 on Hogan plus Barry.

Does that make you feel better?

I was feeling fine anyway, but thanks for asking........ and I do see your point.

Phantom drafts are crap. I'm sure we all know early picks don't mean good players. I couldn't give a rats knackers which pick we use for which player. I just wanna know the men/kids we are bringing in are the ones we were targeting for a specific purpose. Pick 1 or pick 50, as long as we are getting what we want it means nothing.

What about this scenario

Martin + pick 49 + pick 63 to St Kilda for Ray + pick 37

Pick 37 to North for Pedersen

St Kilda are looking for a support ruckman and a key back, Martin has played these roles before so they play him in one of those or both allowing us to get Ray and pick to satisfy North.

North get rid of Pedersen and we gain our third tall forward/ruck.

I am getting doubtful about how savvy our negotiations have been...playing our cards too early or playing cards we don't have. It cost us in the Dawes deal and it may cost with Pederson.

even that is the case, we are the position that allows us to, neeld has clearly stated about bringing in that mix of youth and experience, we have secured 3 top 5 picks plus barry, and we are over a month away from the draft. Most likely scenario is pick 4, viney then upgrade of a rookie, so for us to trade a 2nd round pick which we had no intention of using is no different to trading a 3rd/4th round pick

Viney at pick 27?

I get the strong feeling that was GWS negotiating to ensure they got 3 and 13. But yes it was a great get for JV at 27.

I do agree that if we are not using picks, then obviously we can over pay on those picks to get deals done. That is logical and efficient. It does seem like we might only have 4, JV and maybe one other pick.