Due Diligence

[Bonkers 918]

If it were that simple, then why isn't Jason Taylor our head of recruiting right now??

Because, apparently he had told Collingwood he'd accepted an offer from us??

Possibly Eddie has threatened legal action or asked for us to pay out his contract. Maybe the club don't want Eddie offside & canning us in the media anymore than he has already. There's plenty of reasons why. None which we are privy to.

[pantaloons 2,019]

It just reinforces that while we are an AFL club, we aren't playing the same game much of the time. At the end of last year, two great coaches finished at their clubs at a time when Melbourne was looking for a new coach, and clearly screaming out for a high-quality, respected established coach. Freo nabbed theirs through one of the great stealth jobs of all-time, while Mick sat out the year. Great sporting clubs of the world are able to sustain their greatness in no small part due to continued great, bold decision-making. I don't deny it would have been difficult to snare Malthouse or Lyon. Of course it would have been. It's just a sad reminder that we're unable to play the game at the highest level off-field.

[Hardnut 327]

It just reinforces that while we are an AFL club, we aren't playing the same game much of the time. At the end of last year, two great coaches finished at their clubs at a time when Melbourne was looking for a new coach, and clearly screaming out for a high-quality, respected established coach. Freo nabbed theirs through one of the great stealth jobs of all-time, while Mick sat out the year. Great sporting clubs of the world are able to sustain their greatness in no small part due to continued great, bold decision-making. I don't deny it would have been difficult to snare Malthouse or Lyon. Of course it would have been. It's just a sad reminder that we're unable to play the game at the highest level off-field.

Very well said 'pantaloons'.

While we spend much time on trivia, other clubs are thinking on a much broader playing field - time 'our leaders' woke up?

[tonatopia 278]

Bailey over sheedy

Neeld over malthouse/Mathews

Need I say more.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Nearly all of you don't get it.

Firstly, this has nothing to do with Neeld, or my thoughts on Neeld. Nothing.

Secondly, I'll repeat the title of the thread: "Due diligence".

Thirdly, this club had just come off a disappointing 4 years with Bailey, who also happened to be an untried coach. Those at the club charged with replacing him should have been speaking to anyone and everyone.

That's what a good club would have done.

[rolly 149]

Malthouse is massively overrated in my opinion. 1flag in 15 years, and with the cattle he had at collingwood?

Considering the midfield of pendlebry swan and thomas with cloke and dawes (in good form) as well as the plethora of support players he had and i reckon he underperformed over the last few years.

Even freo has the likes of pavlich sandilands...they may only be 2stars but name the 2bona fide match winners on melbournes list.

Give neeld a chance to put together a list of his own and then hurl you stones from the cheap seats if you still feel the need

[jnrmac 19,249]

Plenty of supporters would be happy that we don't have Ross Lyon as coach, but within the industry he's recognised as being in the top echelon of coaches; and this is evident with how Freo are now playing. I distinctly remember Paul Roos dropping hints when he was On the Couch that Melbourne could do with a coach like Lyon. Then there were unsubstantiated rumours that Lyon was interested in the Melbourne job only for the bombshell to be announced a couple of weeks later that he was going to Freo. Not withstanding our poor showing this year I suspect that Lyon would have preferred to not uproot his family and move halfway across the country. Apparently Garry Lyon was told that Ross would be staying with the Saints; and seeing he and Ross shared the same manager in Craig Kelly he didn't go behind Craig's back and contact Ross directly. Why not ? Weren't we after the best coach we could find ? It seemed to me at the time that Ross Lyon would have been one of the first calls you'd make. It had been in the media that he hadn't re-signed with St.Kilda so you at least had to make direct contact and ask the question. Or even make him an offer he'd find hard to refuse. Whether Demonland posters personally wanted Ross, or not makes no difference to the process we should have followed.

Now I hear on the radio tonight from Mark Robinson that he was chatting to Leigh Matthews recently who revealed that Melbourne didn't contact him at all. Not even a phone call. At the time there was speculation that Leigh could have almost been cajoled into the job. Shouldn't we have at least made contact ?

I don't want to pot Garry Lyon, because I respect him as a dedicated Melbourne person and know that he was a reluctant participant in finding a coach having previously stated that he didn't want be involved again. He'd been there and done that with Bailey. But he wasn't the only one on the committee.

WTF is going on down at Melbourne ?

Leigh Mathews was mentoring Dean Bailey. He would have known the inside goss. And he would not have danced on Bailey's grave.

[jnrmac 19,249]

Malthouse is massively overrated in my opinion. 1flag in 15 years, and with the cattle he had at collingwood?

Considering the midfield of pendlebry swan and thomas with cloke and dawes (in good form) as well as the plethora of support players he had and i reckon he underperformed over the last few years.

Even freo has the likes of pavlich sandilands...they may only be 2stars but name the 2bona fide match winners on melbournes list.

Give neeld a chance to put together a list of his own and then hurl you stones from the cheap seats if you still feel the need

Malthouse record is 3 flags in from 1984 to 2011 - 28 years. Only 1 flag in his last 18 years

Yet people laud him as a coaching genius. I don't get it.

[pantaloons 2,019]

Malthouse is massively overrated in my opinion. 1flag in 15 years, and with the cattle he had at collingwood?

Considering the midfield of pendlebry swan and thomas with cloke and dawes (in good form) as well as the plethora of support players he had and i reckon he underperformed over the last few years.

Even freo has the likes of pavlich sandilands...they may only be 2stars but name the 2bona fide match winners on melbournes list.

Give neeld a chance to put together a list of his own and then hurl you stones from the cheap seats if you still feel the need

This thread isn't about Neeld-bashing. But for the record, Malthouse took over a previously poor Footscray team and had them 11 points off a Grand Final in his second year. At West Coast, he presided over their first two flags. at collingwood, he took over the worst list in the comp and in just his third year had the club in a Grand Final with the likes of Steven McKee, Rupert Betheras, Glenn Freeborn, Carl Steinfort and Ryan Lonie in the team. He backed up with another GF the next year, and understanding where the list was, executed list management strategies perfectly to get Thomas and Pendlebury and off they go to a flag. So he's had success with good sides with three flags, and done very well with mediocre ones. We often excuse our performance by saying that we can't polish a turd. Well in 2002-03, Mick not only polished a turd but fashioned one into an award-winning banquet.

Most will acknowledge him as one of the greatest coaches of the modern era, but even if the worst case scenario is true - that he stumbled into good situations and was lucky to win three flags - I'll take some of that 'luck' at Melbourne.

[timD 994]

BH is highlighting a process fault. He is highlighting that we did not do things as part of the selection process for a senior coach that look obvious to do. That are arguably bloody silly NOT to do. And when people now claim that this, too, is just a "molehill", I will start to wonder just how many of these little molehills does it take to start wonder if it is actually a mountain? Has our perspective of competent decision-making has been altered to accept a low level of performance off field far more than on field?

[Whispering_Jack 28,027]

As I understand it, the club wanted Clarkson but he signed on with the Hawks and we moved on. Malthouse was a no go zone and Ross Lyons' manager passed on his client's instructions that he was still in talks with the Saints. Ross however, had already been approached via the back door by the Dockers who made him an offer that couldn't be refused (especially due to his financial circumstances). Leigh Matthews has been out of the game for far too long to be a head coach in today's game. Mark Williams had a contract with GWS. Once you've exhausted that lot, you're into the young up and comers and Neeld came highly recommended, had four impressive years as an understudy and by all reports interviewed well. The Neil Craig connection made the combination all the more impressive. I'm of the view that next year and the year after will be the time to judge them and whether the due diligence in the selection process was up to standard.

[Clark_Kent 315]

Some of these "great" coaches were doing it for YEARS before they tasted success.

We've got to give Neeld a good crack at it (at least 5 years) before we will really know

how good he is. I don't care about getting Malthouse or Mathews they are past coaches.

Do you think that when Malthouse was first interviewed for a coaching roll way back when

there may have been people like is saying oh no he's too inexperienced. Neeld could turn into

another Malthouse or he may not we just all need to get over it.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'm of the view that next year and the year after will be the time to judge them and whether the due diligence in the selection process was up to standard.

Apparently we spoke to only 3 potential coaches. Those potential coaches didn't include Sanderson, or Chris Scott.

We could win a flag next year and I wouldn't be convinced we followed good process.

[Slartibartfast 15,937]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/deecision-on-the-run-20120521-1z1di.html

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Plenty of supporters would be happy that we don't have Ross Lyon as coach, but within the industry he's recognised as being in the top echelon of coaches; and this is evident with how Freo are now playing. I distinctly remember Paul Roos dropping hints when he was On the Couch that Melbourne could do with a coach like Lyon. Then there were unsubstantiated rumours that Lyon was interested in the Melbourne job only for the bombshell to be announced a couple of weeks later that he was going to Freo. Not withstanding our poor showing this year I suspect that Lyon would have preferred to not uproot his family and move halfway across the country. Apparently Garry Lyon was told that Ross would be staying with the Saints; and seeing he and Ross shared the same manager in Craig Kelly he didn't go behind Craig's back and contact Ross directly. Why not ? Weren't we after the best coach we could find ? It seemed to me at the time that Ross Lyon would have been one of the first calls you'd make. It had been in the media that he hadn't re-signed with St.Kilda so you at least had to make direct contact and ask the question. Or even make him an offer he'd find hard to refuse. Whether Demonland posters personally wanted Ross, or not makes no difference to the process we should have followed.

Now I hear on the radio tonight from Mark Robinson that he was chatting to Leigh Matthews recently who revealed that Melbourne didn't contact him at all. Not even a phone call. At the time there was speculation that Leigh could have almost been cajoled into the job. Shouldn't we have at least made contact ?

I don't want to pot Garry Lyon, because I respect him as a dedicated Melbourne person and know that he was a reluctant participant in finding a coach having previously stated that he didn't want be involved again. He'd been there and done that with Bailey. But he wasn't the only one on the committee.

WTF is going on down at Melbourne ?

Just a few years ago there were some, including your sparring partner TGR who thought that we had failed because we didn't get Ratten when he was available, well that worked out well for him didn't it? If Lyon wins a flag then we can crown him a success.

Lyon had a very good list at St Kilda and failed to gain the ultimate prize, Freo have a good list and he's scraped in to the 8, we have a vey poor list so I don't know what we would expect him to do with us.

One of the commentators remarked some time ago that Lyon was employed by Rugby Union Australia to coach every side in the competition and turn AFL in to Rugby; is that what we want?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Just a few years ago there were some, including your sparring partner TGR who thought that we had failed because we didn't get Ratten when he was available, well that worked out well for him didn't it? If Lyon wins a flag then we can crown him a success.

Lyon had a very good list at St Kilda and failed to gain the ultimate prize, Freo have a good list and he's scraped in to the 8, we have a vey poor list so I don't know what we would expect him to do with us.

One of the commentators remarked some time ago that Lyon was employed by Rugby Union Australia to coach every side in the competition and turn AFL in to Rugby; is that what we want?

Seemingly, you too just don't "get it".

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

As I understand it, the club wanted Clarkson but he signed on with the Hawks and we moved on. Malthouse was a no go zone and Ross Lyons' manager passed on his client's instructions that he was still in talks with the Saints. Ross however, had already been approached via the back door by the Dockers who made him an offer that couldn't be refused (especially due to his financial circumstances). Leigh Matthews has been out of the game for far too long to be a head coach in today's game. Mark Williams had a contract with GWS. Once you've exhausted that lot, you're into the young up and comers and Neeld came highly recommended, had four impressive years as an understudy and by all reports interviewed well. The Neil Craig connection made the combination all the more impressive. I'm of the view that next year and the year after will be the time to judge them and whether the due diligence in the selection process was up to standard.

Couldn't agree more WJ.

Melbourne has often been accused of not being professional in their dealings.

But when you go through the accepted protocols of talking to a Manager. That is an accepted protocol in anyone's language.

Let's just remind people what we are after at Melbourne and that is a change in culture.

That can only be done from the Board, F.D, Admin & staff.

That then will transmit to the players that are recruited.

This year we have been enveloped in turmoil, the Board and Admin have performed admirably.

F.D. totally new and trying to work out the SWOT, it takes time.

The staff I have dealt with could not be more helpful.

So off field I would say we are ticking all the boxes.

Let's see if we can now start to tick on field boxes.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Couldn't agree more WJ.

Melbourne has often been accused of not being professional in their dealings.

But when you go through the accepted protocols of talking to a Manager. That is an accepted protocol in anyone's language.

Let's just remind people what we are after at Melbourne and that is a change in culture.

*Face palm*

Sheedy tied down windsocks and won 4 flags.

Maguire poached Malthouse from the Eagles when he had a year to go on his contract.

Carlton had Elliott cheating salary caps and won flags.

Graeme Richmond gave out brown paper bags at the Tigers and won flags.

And you talk of "protocol" ? It's your type of thinking that has held this club back for 40 years.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Seemingly, you too just don't "get it".

Oh I get it, but baby steps Ben, we need to get something going at Melbourne before we can attract a top line coach and I'm not sure that Lyon could do much with our list.

The other coaches you mentioned were lucky to be picked up by top line clubs with top line lists; I guess we have to ask, would Neeld have done as well with Adelaide or Geelong?

I know for a fact that we are trying to attract players from other clubs but managers are not interested in talking to us; I would assume that the same applies to the managers of coaches. I'm sure that G Lyon would have put out a few "unofficial feelers" to other coaches managers but I doubt he would want to get up and tell the World that we had been knocked by all he'd approached.

Sheedy had 27 years to collect his 4 Flags we've had Neeld on board for 1.

Eddie had the power and money of Collingwood to get Mickey, who only won one flag after all.

Elliot drove Carlton in to the ground and continued to play champions way beyond their use by date because "Carlton don't rebuild" and the result was 3 or 4 Spoons.

Richmond have never recovered from the Graeme Richmond era and the subsequent bankrupting of the club.

I fully understand where you are coming from and I'm just as frustrated as you are, but we are [censored] and at the moment no one wants to get tainted by associating with us. We need runs on the board and who's to say that Neeld can't do it. Remember Mickey coached the bulldogs before he became successful and he may still go out on a low if he get's associated with Carlton.

Edited September 1, 2012 by RobbieF

[Freddy Fuschia 666]

Could someone please hand around that face palm. I am more than somewhat bemused by this and many other threads on Demonland.

How many times has this subject been covered?

How many times have people whined about the process of selection of Neeld and what we coulda, shoulda, woulda done if only this, that and the other?

How many times are people going to come up with a Caro Wilson or Mark Robinson article with some half informed information about this process or that.

Hello?

It's nearly a year ago since Neeld was appointed. Neeld is coaching again next year. Is there nothing more current we can discuss here?

[Elwood 3184 1,268]

Apparently we spoke to only 3 potential coaches. Those potential coaches didn't include Sanderson, or Chris Scott.

We could win a flag next year and I wouldn't be convinced we followed good process.

Why would we speak to Chris Scott. He was about to win the flag in his first season as coach of Geelong.

Unless we're aware of what went on in the decision-making process, we're not really in a position to criticise what went on.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Sheedy had 27 years to collect his 4 Flags we've had Neeld on board for 1.

This is not about Neeld. I'm happy with Neeld.

But I have no doubt we didn't do our due diligence. You're seemingly happy we didn't. I'm not.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Why would we speak to Chris Scott. He was about to win the flag in his first season as coach of Geelong.

Mea culpa.

[old55 21,506]

I don't want to pot Garry Lyon ...

WTF is going on down at Melbourne ?

There's most of your answer

[IRW 1,262]

Ok this is the due diligence thread but......it arises again because of the state of play at MFC .Most everyone appears to have missed the relevant fact in the last few posts which was the statement that player managers wont even enter talks with MFC. I have no doubt this is correct and no doubt that it means Neeld will have an even more difficult job than last year in convincing anyone except a disgruntled player to cross over to MFC. I It's going to be a very long haul back to the 8 let along contention for a flag. . Rather than complaining about the past you should be worried that the Board wont have the knackers to stay the course they embarked on with,or without, due diligence because if Neeld doesnt get 3 years plus an extension(even if its not honoured)then I reckon the club is ' gonski'