There is no point gilding the Lilly anymore. I have watched most games this season with and without our full list on the park. The standard is below what is expected for AFL.

I watched today's game against the Kangas. It was a woeful performance, and Sylvias work ethic was pathetic. Him and Beamer should be on the trade table full stop.

We don't have a midfield

We don't have speed

We don't have fitness despite recruiting a so called guru.

Frawley has gone backwards and not a patch on his AA season

Garland gets the yips far too much for his experience

The MFC either has to recruit players who will bring supporters to the game or die as a club. It is that bad, it really is!!

I will go around again next year but I will give it one more year.....in any language on this planet, this club cannot afford another year like this. The dark clouds are hovering. Recruiting has been a rolled gold mess.

Yep Moloney 2nd or 3rd best and have another dig. How about don't come back next year no need for you.

I was there AGAIN to watch were you? As for Moloney, he was very good last year. He was belted today...far too slow. Don't fall into the amount of possessions equals quality carp!

I thought Moloney was uninfluential today, despite what his stats said.

I will also agree that our brand of footy is almost unwatchable at present. We don't run hard, take little risk/reward and fail to win crucial one on one and contested ball situations.

Only our Melbourne team this year could create a turnover just outside the our F50 like we did today, and manage to not even come up with a scoring shot. We are woeful.

Moloney and jamar were the number 1 clearance duo in 2011.

It's not the players. Our list, playing at full potential can be finals worthy. We were in contention up until round 15 last year.

Mate, look higher up the tree than the players.

Moloney and jamar were the number 1 clearance duo in 2011.

It's not the players. Our list, playing at full potential can be finals worthy. We were in contention up until round 15 last year.

Mate, look higher up the tree than the players.

You're kidding yourself if you think the current group are finals worthy, and we were never really in contention last year.

That is the

Moloney and jamar were the number 1 clearance duo in 2011.

It's not the players. Our list, playing at full potential can be finals worthy. We were in contention up until round 15 last year.

Mate, look higher up the tree than the players.

And then you woke up and realised your footy IQ was non-existent.

You have to be dreaming.

Moloney is no good always has been always will be - he is a meat and potatoes type player who wants to be the superstar. If he played more like Jones and using some vision and composure instead of just bombing it 50 meters down the line every time he got the footy he may be some use. He doesn't kick enough goals for the type of player he is and is rubbish defensively as well. Get rid of him and his mate Sylvia should go too. No room for lazy senior players like him would rather see Magner back out there even though hes no good either at least he has a crack.

Don't give me this bull about 'it's the coach' either - sure Neeld needs to improve some areas but the 'effort' of most of our players is plain pathetic. Never seen a bigger pack of statues masquerading as a football side in my life and it was just as bad the last couple of years as well. Lazy and stupid footballers are the vast majority with only a couple like Jones, Frawley, Rivers, Green being exceptions.

I agree with the OP though who would pay good money and waste their time turning up to watch this rubbish every week. I can't even muster the effort to vent my spleen anymore like Nasher I'm just bored and don't know if I'll even bother going for the rest of the year (and this is coming from a Trident member who has gone to 90% of games and been a continuous member over the last 25 years).

Moloney and jamar were the number 1 clearance duo in 2011.

It's not the players. Our list, playing at full potential can be finals worthy. We were in contention up until round 15 last year.

Mate, look higher up the tree than the players.

You just don't get it do you? Oh well, one more time... Bailey's game-plan was never going to get us to finals. He bred a team of soft, uncommitted individuals masquerading as a team. Neeld is working to undo that situation. Wait for the cull and the resurgence some carefully chosen fresh blood will bring. Patience instead of silly attacks on a coach in his first season trying to undo years of poor coaching and development.

All I hear is excuses.

I want to win.

We can only turn over about 10 players at the end of the year, so we have to work with what we have. but the nucleus of our side is there.

There is no reason why Howe can't turn out to be like Tony modra, for example. Or blease like Peter matera or even bennell like Lewis jetta. They have the ability, it is all between the ears and hard work.

Neeld didn't believe in us. Now the poison is spreading. It is eating at the soul of the club.

I would keep 90% of the players and find a coach that can get the most out of them. I would also try interviewinga proven successful coach. I am sick of excuses. Other clubs can do it, actually, every other club is doing it (improving) except us.

The bullish must stop. I want a coach that says, 'I guarantee that we will improve', not 'the list is [censored]

Haha. Why stop there tonotopia? Spencer and Cox are both tall. Spencer should be as good as him.

Jetta is indigenous. He should be Cyril Rioli.

Magner could be Bartel....

This is easy!

Neeld has never said the list is anything. So that's just false.

Are the dogs improving? Saints? Cats? Blues? Lions? Power? Gold Coast?

Lol, I was wrong; you're deluded, and your anti Neeld agenda is clouding your judgement of our players and their potential.

whoever thinks we are on the right path is deluded. absolutely pathetic excuse for a club

Thanks Wacko. Top post.

We can easily pick out half a dozen players who will clearly not be held onto at the end of the year, who are currently getting regular or semi-regular games, plus a few more who are 'touch and go' whether we persevere with them for another season, then another set that are contracted next year.

We will cut as much as a quarter of our list a the end of the year, and that'll be from guys currently getting games.

They'll be replaced with 4 mids from the first 25 or so picks, plus whatever selections we can get or improve while offloading 'unrequired' players, and whoever we can grab through free agency given that our salary cap space is going to open wide up again both this year and next as experienced, and some highly paid, players get the chop.

That team will be Neeld's team. And despite becoming even younger (hell, we could be younger than Gold Coast by the end of 2013) it should at least be able to function to his plans.

Sigh, I don't want to sound like I am super-optimistic or complacent. I really hate our current performances and they are simply not acceptable, showing clear lack of 'duty-motivation'. I think this is the core of the problem, the culture problem that just about everyone alludes to in their comments.

Melbourne players past and present have been readily motivated by various things that are mostly personal. Whether it was glory, money, emotional circumstance, or simply the excitement of attacking football. But what is so clealy missing, over the course of seasons and right down to individual moments, is the motivation that comes from within, to improve, to perform consistently, to make the defensive efforts and the unrewarded running to offer options.

That, I think, is what Neeld is working to generate. And it is also a known strength of Neil Craig's. So, for all the rubbish right now as players struggle to build their 'internal, duty-driven' motivation, I do believe in the future.

Moloney and jamar were the number 1 clearance duo in 2011.

It's not the players. Our list, playing at full potential can be finals worthy. We were in contention up until round 15 last year.

Mate, look higher up the tree than the players.

You were calling for Bailey's head all of last year too.

How could we possibly make the finals last year? Virtually only winning against interstate sides at the 'G ain't gonna get you there.

I'm not jumping on the anti-Neeld train, but this weekend is the first time in a LONG time where I've gone out of my way not to watch the game. Drinking is alot more fun without the misery of a Melbourne performance.

We've become unwatchable by my reckoning. I'm just utterly tired of it.

Tony, you are the only person in the football world who thinks our list is finals-capable.

we do not have a good backline.

we do not have a good forwardline.

WE have almost no midfield.

We have no experienced players with a high level of talent

We have juniors who are not able to perform at a high level.

we are physcially unfit

we are physically weak

We are mentally weak

the team has accepted and put out disgusting efforts for years and has no culture of high performance.

We have routinely failed to select "A grade" talent despute numerous picks

We have failed to develop the talent we have to perform at even an average AFL level.

Up until 18/12 ago we had the worst facilities in the AFL

But you reckon....

The only thing I'll add to this discussion is that it will take several seasons to address the fitness issue, we're starting from a very low base.

The rest is just too depressing to talk about, I hate watching us play now because it just makes me angry seeing us continually making fundamental errors. Turnover after turnover.

There is no point gilding the Lilly anymore. I have watched most games this season with and without our full list on the park. The standard is below what is expected for AFL.

I watched today's game against the Kangas. It was a woeful performance, and Sylvias work ethic was pathetic. Him and Beamer should be on the trade table full stop.

We don't have a midfield

We don't have speed

We don't have fitness despite recruiting a so called guru.

Frawley has gone backwards and not a patch on his AA season

Garland gets the yips far too much for his experience

The MFC either has to recruit players who will bring supporters to the game or die as a club. It is that bad, it really is!!

I will go around again next year but I will give it one more year.....in any language on this planet, this club cannot afford another year like this. The dark clouds are hovering. Recruiting has been a rolled gold mess.

Didn't you start an almost identical thread last week, and the week before that?

Why would you think anything would be different this week? It's the same group of players. The same midfield group.

Can understand your (and everyone's) frustration but there's no magic wand unfortunately. Previous coaches/recruiters stuffed the club.

We can easily pick out half a dozen players who will clearly not be held onto at the end of the year, who are currently getting regular or semi-regular games, plus a few more who are 'touch and go' whether we persevere with them for another season, then another set that are contracted next year.

We will cut as much as a quarter of our list a the end of the year, and that'll be from guys currently getting games.

They'll be replaced with 4 mids from the first 25 or so picks, plus whatever selections we can get or improve while offloading 'unrequired' players, and whoever we can grab through free agency given that our salary cap space is going to open wide up again both this year and next as experienced, and some highly paid, players get the chop.

That team will be Neeld's team. And despite becoming even younger (hell, we could be younger than Gold Coast by the end of 2013) it should at least be able to function to his plans.

Sigh, I don't want to sound like I am super-optimistic or complacent. I really hate our current performances and they are simply not acceptable, showing clear lack of 'duty-motivation'. I think this is the core of the problem, the culture problem that just about everyone alludes to in their comments.

Melbourne players past and present have been readily motivated by various things that are mostly personal. Whether it was glory, money, emotional circumstance, or simply the excitement of attacking football. But what is so clealy missing, over the course of seasons and right down to individual moments, is the motivation that comes from within, to improve, to perform consistently, to make the defensive efforts and the unrewarded running to offer options.

That, I think, is what Neeld is working to generate. And it is also a known strength of Neil Craig's. So, for all the rubbish right now as players struggle to build their 'internal, duty-driven' motivation, I do believe in the future.

Excellent post.

All I hear is excuses.

I want to win.

We can only turn over about 10 players at the end of the year, so we have to work with what we have. but the nucleus of our side is there.

You say all you hear is excuses. All you're providing is a different excuse in the coach. I dont want to win. I want to win a premiership. Lets go your way and just work with the rubbish that Neeld has been dealt up and see how far that takes us. We had a coach that said it was just a matter of time get games into the kids. I am actually happy we have a coach that is on the reality bus. He will cull and cull hard and that is what should occur. With a fit list I agree the nucleus of two ends is there just need to fix the middle and I am confident that will be addressed at seasons end.

We have only beaten 2 Victorian sides the end of 2007 - Essendon and Richmond.

That is as damning a stat on the life of our club that I can find.

We have only beaten 2 Victorian sides the end of 2007 - Essendon and Richmond.

That is as damning a stat on the life of our club that I can find.

By far the most damning stat is the one Ben-Hur keeps bringing up regarding our recruiting. Something like 17 first round draft picks in five years and not a star among 'em.

Astounding ineptitude.

Did anyone see the hawks play? Hard, tough, aggressive and kinda freestyle.

Mark neeld, slow, defensive, ineffective, structured.

No wonder democracy dosnt work, the sheep are leading the shepherds.

Excuses will only lead to your doom.

If Neeld was really trying to develop us, why hasn't he played Gysberts and Cook.

I can assure you, powerful men who pumped hundreds of thousands into the club, successful business men that sack excuse based employees, would be talking to key mbers of the board and demanding answers.

I would be staggered if we have not had private crisis meetings behind closed doors. To accept this crap and look worse than ever is absolutely unjustifiable. Absolutely inexcusable, especially when our so called useless players have shown plenty of talent over the last few years.

I am afraid that the excuse makers who prevail on this site may actual give strength to an assistant coach and his old game style.

The Hawks looked brilliant.