Trading our First two Picks for Beams & Wellingham

[PaulRB 6,305]

Beams will go GWS if he leaves Collingwood.

$$$$$

[Dr. Mubutu 784]

Not a chance.

In terms of value to MFC, Plowman + (Stringer, Mayes or Kennedy) >>>>> Wellingham + Beams.

[Angelus BTVS 31]

Wouldnt trade first 2 picks for beams & wellingham. But if get to a point where viney can be taken 2nd round, then i would consider making a play for both remaining gws mini draft picks by offering up first pick likely pick 3 overall.

If accepted gws have 2 of first 3 picks overall. And we have option to walk away with -: jack martin + jesse hogan/josh kelly (personally i'd take kelly). Plus still have ability to take likes of a wines, toumpas,mayes, etc as whitfield & grundy look certain top 3. Then still have pick 13 up sleeve with a potential player of the ilk of a vlastuin,simpson,kennedy,o'rourke,garlett,mcdonough, stringer, shaw, colqhoun, thurlow, plowman,pongracic amongst others. On top of that j.viney in 2nd round.

If gws try to hold ransom on both picks for 2 of our first 3 then i wouldnt do it. But you have to wonder what 2 seperate offers from other clubs could be better than pick 3 overall.

Basically the cards that mfc have available to play with this trade period are brilliant and can setup the club for the next 10 years. Beams is a very good player & wellingham is good. But we need game breakers & match winners that make those around them better. We need to find and develop our own Pendlebury, rioli, goodes, hodge, bartel, black etc if we cant go out and buy them.

[Cards13 9,117]

Being reported this morning Beams is close to staying at toothless city Collingwood.

[hardtack 10,434]

Being reported this morning Beams is close to staying at toothless city Collingwood.

Yes... in a $1.1mil deal!! That leaves Ben Reid, Sharrod Wellingham, Harry O'Brien and Tyson Goldsack who haven't yet re-signed. If it were somehow possible, I wouldn't mind the club going for any two of Boak, Cloak and O'Brien (I know, that last one will get a lot of laughs, but I see plenty of upside in Harry if he can keep his mouth shut).

[Range Rover 1,935]

Yes... in a $1.1mil deal!! That leaves Ben Reid, Sharrod Wellingham, Harry O'Brien and Tyson Goldsack who haven't yet re-signed. If it were somehow possible, I wouldn't mind the club going for any two of Boak, Cloak and O'Brien (I know, that last one will get a lot of laughs, but I see plenty of upside in Harry if he can keep his mouth shut).

Please please please no Harry O. No Harry O!

Is there a more annoying, self-important blow hard in the AFL?

[olisik 4,060]

Yes... in a $1.1mil deal!! That leaves Ben Reid, Sharrod Wellingham, Harry O'Brien and Tyson Goldsack who haven't yet re-signed. If it were somehow possible, I wouldn't mind the club going for any two of Boak, Cloak and O'Brien (I know, that last one will get a lot of laughs, but I see plenty of upside in Harry if he can keep his mouth shut).

1.1mil over 3 years isn't exactly big big money. It is just under 370k a year.

Wellingham is the type of player I hopes Petterd would evolve into....

Edited July 17, 2012 by olisik

[Hannibal 5,814]

I think we'd be more of a chance at snaring Caddy from the GC, he has grunt, an ability to find the pill and a lot of upside.

This is my main query over Caddy. He's played 17 games and only once had over 20 possessions. That said, he's young and looks a talent. Reading the tea leaves it looks like he'll probably stay on the GC. He's happy, played every game, moved his girl friend up north, etc.

[hardtack 10,434]

Please please please no Harry O. No Harry O!

Is there a more annoying, self-important blow hard in the AFL?

But when he's in form he's a great player.. hence my condition re keeping his mouth shut.

[hardtack 10,434]

1.1mil over 3 years isn't exactly big big money. It is just under 370k a year.

Yeah, I realised after I posted but couldn't be bothered changing my post :-)

[olisik 4,060]

Yeah, I realised after I posted but couldn't be bothered changing my post :-)

Thats fair enough.

My point being is that I think he can earn possibly close to double that if his manager played his cards right.

Edited July 17, 2012 by olisik

[hardtack 10,434]

Thats fair enough.

My point being is that I think he can earn possibly close to double that if his manager played his cards right.

Agree... the fact that he has not put his name on the dotted line yet, I suppose leaves it open for the possibility some other club could come along with a better offer, and that the "sources" who claim he is ready to sign, may well be the Collingwood FC themselves, attempting to scare off potential sutors.

Edited July 18, 2012 by hardtack

[Guest KingDingAling]

This is my main query over Caddy. He's played 17 games and only once had over 20 possessions. That said, he's young and looks a talent. Reading the tea leaves it looks like he'll probably stay on the GC. He's happy, played every game, moved his girl friend up north, etc.

Yeah, Caddy was a ball magnet as a junior though, does a lot of grunt work - but can also play on the outside.

He would be a good get, but he did look very happy with GC's win on the weekend, I think he will stay up there.

Beams would suit us down to the ground, his outside game is classy, he also gets his own ball and can finish.

If he is on the open market, we are in the box seat one would think - but Collingwood dont lose players, especially when they are in contention.

[Hannibal 5,814]

We've all known for a while that Melbourne is desperate for pace in the midfield, but I'd contend that we also need quality inside mids. Some supporters think that Magner, Couch, Jones, Moloney and Trengove have this base covered. I don't. Along with key forwards, key defenders, and rucks, A grade inside mids are the most important players at the club. Winning contested footy is paramount.

Without being disparaging to any current players I reckon we have two potential A grade mids in Trengove and Jones. Viney will be a Godsend and imo will become our best inside mid and one of the best in the game and we'll need at least one other quality inside mid at this draft. That may be Wines, Stringer, Vlastuin, Hrovat, etc. If we're fortunate enough to get Toumpas he'll add some of the pace and polish on the outside, plus he can win his own contested footy. Beams is now a moot point, but he and Wellingham aren't inside mids and I certainly wouldn't have given a nano seconds thought to trading precious top 5 picks for them. I wouldn't do it for Boak either.

I equate a football club's list to the structure of a house. Inside mids are the foundations; the spine (goal to goal line) is the slab; rucks are the roof, outside class and good flankers are the quality of the fit-out, and depth and fringe players make up the rest. But I stress, it's quality inside mids that are crucial, otherwise cracks appear. You can have half a dozen inside mids, but if they're not A grade I'll show you a crap team. There are clearances and then there are quality clearances.

GWS have been very clever in their list management. They've got two key forwards that will dominate for a decade, a key back in Davis that will do likewise and a host of quality young inside mids that will serve them well in the not too distant future. And it's not that I don't like quality finishers with speed, as I do, but they're job is far easier in a good team. And a good team has A grade inside mids who win contested footy, make good decisions, and have clean disposal. GWS are ready to add the class on the outside that a Lachie Whitfield brings. Although they'd be tempted by Grundy.

Pick 3 - Toumpas (class runner with grunt and elite kicking)

Pick 4 - Stringer (inside mid/forward 'beast')

Pick 13 - Wines, Kennedy, Garlett, Mayes, Vlastuin - (mixture of class and grunt - best available)

Pick 20 odd - Viney (inside mid)

We really need to go best available with our 3 first round picks. It's tempting to go for outside class at 13, at the expense of a Wines type, but you can't get enough quality inside mids. And the best inside mids are also good distributors on the outside (without the line breaking pace).

Wines and Garlett may well be gone by 13, and so might Mayes, but we've seen enough to know that we'll still get a quality player. It's hard to fix all your problems in one draft, but we should go a long way to solving most of them. A small forward later in the drafting process will be a priority.

Geelong won a flag on the back of two drafts - 1999 and 2001. The 2001 draft delivered Bartel, James Kelly, Stevie J, and Ablett - all genuine A graders mixed with greats of the game. We have the opportunity to kick hopefully similar goals with Viney, 3, 4, and 13.

It would be madness to trade away our picks. I know there are no guarantees and I know we've made previous mistakes, but this draft is exceptional at the pointy end and it's worth remembering that there are genuine stars entering the game every year. We're in a prime position to finally grab a couple.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Cards13 9,117]

Yes... in a $1.1mil deal!! That leaves Ben Reid, Sharrod Wellingham, Harry O'Brien and Tyson Goldsack who haven't yet re-signed. If it were somehow possible, I wouldn't mind the club going for any two of Boak, Cloak and O'Brien (I know, that last one will get a lot of laughs, but I see plenty of upside in Harry if he can keep his mouth shut).

Wellingham and Goldsack are two I'd hope we would target from that group.

[stuie 7,374]

Please please please no Harry O. No Harry O!

Is there a more annoying, self-important blow hard in the AFL?

Really? That's our criteria is it?

Great player, wouldn't want to pay overs for him, but it'd free up Garland to stay forward which might be an option if there's no go with Cloke.

People are a bit too wishful with the trades they're expecting and far too dismissive of what we are actually capable of getting.

[Chook 15,001]

Really? That's our criteria is it?

Great player, wouldn't want to pay overs for him, but it'd free up Garland to stay forward which might be an option if there's no go with Cloke.

People are a bit too wishful with the trades they're expecting and far too dismissive of what we are actually capable of getting.

I know a few Collingwood supporters who would be more than happy to get him out of the Club. They reckon he's way too loose and can't play one-on-one to save himself. Edited July 18, 2012 by Chook

[Cards13 9,117]

I know a few Collingwood supporters who would be more than happy to get him out of the Club. They reckon he's way too loose and can't play one-on-one to save himself.

O'Brien is the same bloke Bate (maybe not the best guide) said has been his toughest opponent. O'Brien tries to make it as difficult as possible for his opponent to "get by him and break free goinf forward". One-on-one is very little of todays game with the soccer/basketball style zoning I would have thought.

[Chook 15,001]

O'Brien is the same bloke Bate (maybe not the best guide) said has been his toughest opponent. O'Brien tries to make it as difficult as possible for his opponent to "get by him and break free goinf forward". One-on-one is very little of todays game with the soccer/basketball style zoning I would have thought.

The zone only exists so that it is easier to create a one-on-one (or better) contest. The game still relies on contests, it's just that the one-on-ones are not always with the same pairs of people. Also, Bate probably said that a couple of years ago. Two years is a long time in footy.

[The heart beats true 17,914]

I know a few Collingwood supporters who would be more than happy to get him out of the Club. They reckon he's way too loose and can't play one-on-one to save himself.

Oh, he' ll fit right into our defensive 'structure' then.

From what i've seen of Harry O this year he looks like opposition clubs have figured him out and he's struggling to adjust. Would still like him as a rebounding type if we don't have to pay over for him. We could really use some spring and run in our back half. Harry O and Jack Watts coming out of defence sounds promising.

[stuie 7,374]

Oh, he' ll fit right into our defensive 'structure' then.

From what i've seen of Harry O this year he looks like opposition clubs have figured him out and he's struggling to adjust. Would still like him as a rebounding type if we don't have to pay over for him. We could really use some spring and run in our back half. Harry O and Jack Watts coming out of defence sounds promising.

A backline including Watts, Frawley, Rivers, and Harry O sounds pretty good to me

[Dr. Mubutu 784]

Harry O'Brien?

We really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[olisik 4,060]

Harry O isnt worth the effort of the meeting needed to get him

[stuie 7,374]

Harry O'Brien?

We really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Harry O isnt worth the effort of the meeting needed to get him

Yeah, he's only an All-Australian and Premiership player, what are we thinking when we've got Dunn playing in defence...?!

[olisik 4,060]

Yeah, he's only an All-Australian and Premiership player, what are we thinking when we've got Dunn playing in defence...?!

This reply about Dunn gave me a chuckle.

He is AA but I honestly think that our recruiting resources should focus on what we need, and thats Mids Mids and maybe a link up player.

I really do not think its worth the effort having meetings and trying to negotiate for out of contract defenders. Our defense is fine, especially now with young Tom Mac