Jamar has had average periods, but still has the raw tools to compete and has done on occasions this year.

I believe Moloney now lacks the tools needed to compete, and he has been consistently poor all season.

You're not comparing apples with apples.

Let's not turn this thread into another one of our Moloney Wars, it's ordinary enough as is hey mate! Haha

We'll just have to agree to disagree somewhat as i think the rest of 'Land will appreciate!

I think we're in agreeance about most of it, we only really differ in that I think he can still contribute going forward and you don't think so, so we'll just shake on it.

I do hope however, that by the end of Jamar's 3 years, one or two of Martin, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzy, (insert drafted or traded in ruckman here) have taken the mantle.

The general underrating of Mark Jamar is beyond me. He is a genuine tap ruckman that demands body contact and can tap the ball to midfielders...pending he has midfielders that know how to position themselves and are always at contests, of which Melbourne currently doesn't quite have (Jones can't do it alone, Blease is very unfit).

You don't trade away a guy like Mark.

• Max Gawn and Jack Fitzpatrick (and even possibly Jake Spencer) will hopefully come on.
  

FT, you're argument is rendered void owing to the above point you made.

Banking on any of these young players to 'come on' is way too much of a risk to let Jamar go.

FT, you're argument is rendered void owing to the above point you made.

Banking on any of these young players to 'come on' is way too much of a risk to let Jamar go.

You are missing the point. I still think Jamar is a handy player, but we aren't going to win a flag while Jamar is still at the club. Trading him for someone who may be part of a premiership is worth the risk.

Moreover, we have a good replacement in Martin.

I still think Jamar is a handy player, but we aren't going to win a flag while Jamar is still at the club. Trading him for someone who may be part of a premiership is worth the risk.

We should trade away EVERYONE then the way we are travelling....

The decision to sign Mark Jamar for a further three years was an error in my view and we should look to trade him at the end of the year. Rational:

We are a better side with Stefan Martin in the ruck.

Apart from the problems with lack of rotations later in the game, we were a far worse side with Jamar out of the ruck. Martin did well in the ruck, but we lost our forward structure as a consequence by not having Martin or Jamar as a tall down there.

You are missing the point. I still think Jamar is a handy player, but we aren't going to win a flag while Jamar is still at the club. Trading him for someone who may be part of a premiership is worth the risk.

Moreover, we have a good replacement in Martin.

This idea that a player absolutely must be a round for a club's premiership tilt (else he is obsolete) is bogus. Surely the lesson we learned re JuniorMac's hasty departure has taught us this.

And let's not get too carried away with Stef Martin. The guy has a loo-oong way to go.

I've been saying for over a year that we should trade either Jamar or Martin. Jamar has been with us for about a decade and has had one great season and a bunch of average ones. His only strength is winning the hitouts but since 2010 the amount that have gone to advantage are negligible. He is pretty rubbish around the ground other than being a chopout for the long kick down the line from kickouts. He doesn't drop back to fill a hole, he doesn't push forward to kick goals and when he does take a mark around the ground he always dishes off a handball usually to a teammate under pressure.

Martin I am not convinced on. I think he plays better as a first ruck and not the back-up but I'm not convinced he can play KPF/KPD. His value was sky-high at the end of last year and we may have been able to get something more than he was worth in a trade.

We can't and shouldn't get rid of both but with Gawn, Spencer and Fitzpatrick as cheaper/younger back-ups I think our list would/would've benefited from trading one out last year or this year. Obviously Jamar is now signed for 3 years which I think was a mistake, give him 2 max but not 3. He could be finished after enxt year and then we're stuck with a one dimensional ruck on our list for another 2 years (on decent money too you would assume).

Noo Leave Clark at FF

I agree. Did nothing yesterday. Hack.

Mitch is a full forward. Jamar's form is up and down around the grounds but his actual ruck work is pretty consistent. We would have won yesterday simply on clearance's. There ruckman hadn't had a touch until the opening bounce of the 2nd quarter when Jamar was off injured. What we need to do is find a spot for Stef in the forward line while Jamar is in the ruck and while Mitch is kicking goals as a Full forward all day.

I think stef is the better ruckman IMO just because of the second efforts in the middle.

He also has alot better run getting to and from the next contest.

Jamar is also a good ruckman when in form.

You need 3 or 4 ruckmen in your team so i think both Stef and Russian are required players.

The big russian is the type of player we need around the younger leaders going forward also.

They can have spencer

All Australian as little as 2 years back who I think might even fall under the veterans list next year.

Shouldn't be anywhere near the trade table.

We all underrate Jamar because he rarely goes forward and looks dangerous and he rarely gets more than 10 touches but what he can give you is three years of terribly good ruckwork and the stature of a player who is in the top 5 for his trade in the game.

When we get our midfield sorted out we will all be saying how important Jamar suddenly is.

I hope so.

This idea that a player absolutely must be a round for a club's premiership tilt (else he is obsolete) is bogus. Surely the lesson we learned re JuniorMac's hasty departure has taught us this.

This as different as Jamar has some trade value.

I also believe that Jamar being on the list is more likely to stunt the development of Gawn, etc than assist it.

Very pleased the club has taken a very different view to the title of this thread.

We all underrate Jamar because he rarely goes forward and looks dangerous and he rarely gets more than 10 touches but what he can give you is three years of terribly good ruckwork and the stature of a player who is in the top 5 for his trade in the game.

When we get our midfield sorted out we will all be saying how important Jamar suddenly is.

I'm over the excuses for all of our players .They aren't running out-they are finished.

It's not enough to just win taps anymore-Martin played better than Russian has played all year yesterday.Russian is losing taps and doing nothing around the ground .

This as different as Jamar has some trade value.

I also believe that Jamar being on the list is more likely to stunt the development of Gawn, etc than assist it.

Trading is not some sort of card game.

You only trade 'excess' footballers of value for others of better value or greater importance to you. I don't see an excess of fit ruckmen at the club. All I see is unmeasured potential (Martin, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick) who in fact don't get on the park very often. Trading away Jamar now would be folly.

Trading is not some sort of card game.

It's also not the share market. I never cease to be amazed at the number of posters who want to trade players purely because their trade value is high.

You are missing the point. I still think Jamar is a handy player, but we aren't going to win a flag while Jamar is still at the club. Trading him for someone who may be part of a premiership is worth the risk.

Moreover, we have a good replacement in Martin.

You cant trade out or delist all the players who aren't going to play in your next Premiership - that is an absolutely ludicrous suggestion.

Trading is not some sort of card game.

No No Maurie...apparently it is.. its all about collecting ...get all the "picks you can" get all the young 'potentials' you can. Its got nothgin about actuallyfielding a competive team on any given day. Its a bit like confusing fantasy footy...with the real game.

You only trade 'excess' footballers of value for others of better value or greater importance to you. I don't see an excess of fit ruckmen at the club. All I see is unmeasured potential (Martin, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick) who in fact don't get on the park very often. Trading away Jamar now would be folly.

Sadly a logic lost on some

Names on a list aren't depth.

We trade out Jamar- we will have Martin as first ruck. Martin goes down we have NO rucks- because Clark is a forward, Gawn and Spencil aren't ready and may never be.

This thread is up there with the Michael Newton thread for lols

Very pleased the club has taken a very different view to the title of this thread.

It's as if the MFC aren't looking at D'Land for advice. The nerve!

Very pleased the club has taken a very different view to the title of this thread.

thank god for that hey !! lol

Many here are far more suited to draughts than chess I suspect !!!