Time to blood another tall youngster - Fitzpatrick maybe? Stef Martin doesn't cut it.

I'm curious as to why you think he doesn't cut it. He had some genuinely outstanding games in the second half of last season.

I must be drunk because im sick of ohh were getting better were young. We should have won tonight its all in the head that we dont no how to win and it shits me. Grimes cost us goals tonight if you watch the game. And trenners is well out of form. Watts was never trying hard to demand the ball he is weak and needs a spell at casey. Bottom line if it was dry we would have been killed by a team of old over the hill duds. We have a long year ahead and im allready looking forward to the draft. If you think a game in the wet against a c+ team is a good effort god help us . Geelong will smash us just watch.

Tapscott was on one leg for much of the last quarter. Had a physical clash with McEvoy - came off second best. Kept at it though.

Doesn't really know any other way.....thankfully!!!

I must be drunk because im sick of ohh were getting better were young. We should have won tonight its all in the head that we dont no how to win and it shits me. Grimes cost us goals tonight if you watch the game. And trenners is well out of form. Watts was never trying hard to demand the ball he is weak and needs a spell at casey. Bottom line if it was dry we would have been killed by a team of old over the hill duds. We have a long year ahead and im allready looking forward to the draft. If you think a game in the wet against a c+ team is a good effort god help us . Geelong will smash us just watch.

You're not wrong about most of what you have written, however what the supporters were happy with tonight was the effort of the team and not rolling over when challenged. We played out the game which is what we have been asking for all year. Now granted this shouldn't be something extraordinary to be applauded, it should be the norm - but baby steps.

You're not wrong about most of what you have written, however what the supporters were happy with tonight was the effort of the team and not rolling over when challenged. We played out the game which is what we have been asking for all year. Now granted this shouldn't be something extraordinary to be applauded, it should be the norm - but baby steps.

Spot on.

Also, the wet weather helped but it still would've been a tight contest regardless. I really can't speak highly enough of Jones and McKenzie. They set a benchmark today.

Yep. I am really worried about Trengove. He can lay tackles in close but once in space he is a liability right now.

Didn't see the game yet as I am overseas, but I have posted previously that JT is not quick and I think that is going to be a problem. When some people say we can't go for young quick players I believe that is what we are missing. Obviously wet nights negate speed but generally we need a couple of quick skilfull mids who can spread and deliver. Then we will be a decent side.

Funny how years ago people said Jimmy Bartel was too slow to be a good midfielder.

But Sellar provided literally nothing up forward other than waving his arms about and looking flat footed. Stef is a tall target who is capable of taking a strong grab and finishing. Handy second ruck as well. In what universe is he a step back from Sellar?

Watch the game again, not having a go but watch Sellar's contests in isolation he is not trying to take grabs tonight he is bring the ball to ground, playing the percentages. Fits into the team ethos

Trengove has to have something, surely. He's a confirmed better player than he's showing. Watts is not designed for that kind of footy just yet. Notice that he's a horribly underdeveloped version of the Saints main KP threat. And he had a horrible game too.

I think the big [censored] would have had a good game had he not been fishing his skull from inside his rib cage this week. His efforts, second and third, and his ground ball stuff would have made him better than Riewoldt, and would have meant we had more options around the ground rather than relying on Bail and Jones to be our major goalkickers.

I think the big [censored] would have had a good game had he not been fishing his skull from inside his rib cage this week.

Is there a translator in the house?

I must be drunk because im sick of ohh were getting better were young. We should have won tonight its all in the head that we dont no how to win and it shits me. Grimes cost us goals tonight if you watch the game. And trenners is well out of form. Watts was never trying hard to demand the ball he is weak and needs a spell at casey. Bottom line if it was dry we would have been killed by a team of old over the hill duds. We have a long year ahead and im allready looking forward to the draft. If you think a game in the wet against a c+ team is a good effort god help us . Geelong will smash us just watch.

both sides play under the same sky mate, in what way were we advantaged? We matched them well when it was pretty dry in the first half anyway.

Watch the game again, not having a go but watch Sellar's contests in isolation he is not trying to take grabs tonight he is bring the ball to ground, playing the percentages. Fits into the team ethos

Agree with this. It would've been good to see him hold a grab or two but as you point out the ball came to ground often which is a positive, thought he was competitive in the Ruck too.

Didn't see the game yet as I am overseas, but I have posted previously that JT is not quick and I think that is going to be a problem. When some people say we can't go for young quick players I believe that is what we are missing. Obviously wet nights negate speed but generally we need a couple of quick skilfull mids who can spread and deliver. Then we will be a decent side.

Maybe we should draft someone like Tom Scully from GWS. He seems quite quick.

Is there a translator in the house?

I speak jive.

The honky was rappin about Mitch Clark and how he failed to "protect da neck"

Funny how years ago people said Jimmy Bartel was too slow to be a good midfielder.

Greg William was hopelessly slow too.

Hopefull JT will be as slow as those guys.

I might be wrong, but its a long time since we matched it was the Saints. But for a little bit of luck we could have won. But we didn't

I think the burden of being Captain is weighing Jack Trengove down a little.

Big ask for a young 3rd season player,when most guys that age are flat out trying to play each week.

It will make him stronger and he will grow into a leader but it will take 1 or 2 years.

I WATCHED TRENGOVE ALL NIGHT and he looks injured to me he cannot push with any strength off either leg maybe a groin? He certainly cannot jump

Tapscott was on one leg for much of the last quarter. Had a physical clash with McEvoy - came off second best. Kept at it though.

Someone had a crack at Tapscott for failing to run down Rhys Stanley, who won the grand final sprint 2 years ago? Shame Tappy!!!!!

I also liked the efforts of Magner and Garland who went off the ground with injuries and returned.

The weather conditions almost certainly prompted the change, but I thought we changed our tactics last night. We were playing a zone defence in the first quarter, and as usual the opposition was just cutting their way through with efficient disposal. They had no trouble clearing the ball from their backline. By the second quarter we played man on man and beat them in disposals. And we didn't play a spare man in defence in the 3rd, despite being 3 goals down. Encouraging, but we still have to learn to break their press.

I also felt that we played so much better because we played one on one football. This meant each player was accountable to their man, it meant there was no player stuck between 2-3 loose saints players looking stupid. I dont see why man on man footy cant be played especially by us every week. It will teach each player the work rate required as shown by opponent, it will make the game easier for our some what dumb players who get lost trying to cover space and forget to cover their apponant. It should also stop the opposition taking up any free space on their own. We just need to learn how to work our asses off to make our own space when going forward.

I'm curious as to why you think he doesn't cut it. He had some genuinely outstanding games in the second half of last season.

Can't kick.

Terrible under pressure.

Turn-over king.

Undisciplined.

No presence.

Butchers the ball.

Worse than Setanta.

I thought everybody tried really hard! intensity was there. I like what I saw except for;

- short kicks out of the backline

and my pet hate;

- kicking towards the boundary line when entering Forward 50. Kick it too the bloody top of the square!!!!

I think most of the coaches & players need too do a maths class in percentages and probability!!!

I thought 20 of the 22 players had the type of crack that we've been craving. I'm disappointed with the loss, but happy with the effort. More midfield class required and a key forward that looks remotely like being able to take a mark close to goal. Clark would have helped, but it's not enough.

I must be drunk because im sick of ohh were getting better were young. We should have won tonight its all in the head that we dont no how to win and it shits me. Grimes cost us goals tonight if you watch the game. And trenners is well out of form. Watts was never trying hard to demand the ball he is weak and needs a spell at casey. Bottom line if it was dry we would have been killed by a team of old over the hill duds. We have a long year ahead and im allready looking forward to the draft. If you think a game in the wet against a c+ team is a good effort god help us . Geelong will smash us just watch.

• Grimes saved far more goals than he cost.
  
• Watts worked extremely hard up and down the ground but just couldn't get into the game. Wet weather football does not suit his style, see Nick Riewoldt
  
• The "team of duds" have played finals the last 4 years and all of their mids are All Australian. We matched it with them for three quarters, their bigger bodies that are more experienced in physical games got the better of us in the last.
  

If you can't see any positives from last night you must have been watching a different team the last few weeks!!

WE won the posessions tonight (338-325) for the first time this year - good. We didn't use the ball as well as St Kilda - bad.

Watts had his worst game in a while, Grimes did ok but must use it better.

It looked like we gave a sheed tonight which, bar about 20 minutes in the first 4 rounds, is a first for 2012.

Shame we have the cats at the hellary next week although we should show improvement from our last trip down there (or heaven help us all).

We have a small debt to repay, Nth Melb beat them, we should get some good players back, the intensity shown last night should now be a weekly expectation, we have 22, they have 22, we are young, they have some getting to the end of the line.Wonderful challenge at our feet.

Watts worked extremely hard up and down the ground but just couldn't get into the game. Wet weather football does not suit his style, see Nick Riewoldt

I understand that wet weather is not his style. But what IS his style?

Open on the wing with no one else within 20 metres?

Running past a contest and receiving a handball so he can run into an open goal?

Casey?

Needs to offer something IMO. I don't know what he has that is irreplaceable ATM.