The Kreuzer Cup - 2007: 2 clubs on different trajectories

[Pennant St Dee 11,973]

Typical doom & gloom and selective memory from Demonlanders, Carlton started their rebuild 2 years before us FFS, Carlton started their rebuild in 2002, we started ours in 2008. They were hampered for 2/3 years after salary cap breaches and draft restrictions. It took them 7 years to get back in the 8.

One comment tonight was of particular interest for me not sure if it was Matthews or not but the comment was along the lines of " what your seeing is a group of players around the same age reaching their potential around the same time". Something we need to consider not saying we will be a Carlton because I don't see a Murphy on our list and we definatley don't have a Judd. What it shows is when are boys get the required games, experience and pre-seasons into them there will be marked improvement

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Round 22 2007 made me really angry. Carlton spanked this club so hard. I knew they would be back after that game.

We fell straight into there corrupt web. Trapper left to dominate quite happily. Our coach from that night left within weeks to join carlscum.

Did he know already? Had the paperbags already started to arrive??

It was so predictable it made me sick.

Carlton lost R22 for a reason and did not spank us at all. It gave them the cards to snare Judd and Kruezer.

Traper left MFC to dominate quite happily. Really?? Trapper was a gameboy culture sore who did zip at Brisbane for whom we traded for one of our Captain's.

Corrupt webs and paperbags....no wonder you are so sick with the overdose of melodrama.

But it's so much more than bottoming out and gaining two or three guns. It takes more than that to become a premiership threat.

Despite being down and out for a few years, Carlton as an organization, from those than run it to the supporters (who must surely be the most annoying lot out there) never lost their swagger.

They have a winning mentality deep in their psyche that club. It's something we lack and I think secretly many of us envy in them.

For the sake of the truth, six years ago Carlton had neither the swagger nor the winning mentality. Carlton have got back through good organisation, good people behind the scenes, recruiting Judd and loads of Pratt money that prevented them from doing a can rattle.

....

and yes they started 2 years before us, but in 2009 they finished 7th and lost a final at the GABBA by 7 points. How far off that are we? Pretty blooody far

If you think it is just because that they started 2 years before us you greatly mistaken.

And Morton a number 1 draft pick in 2007??.....pull the other one. Morton's issues at MFC would be the same and magnified at other Clubs. I hope he turns it around but his selection at No 4 by Cameron is looking like a waste at the moment and Maric delisted lat year and selected at pick 20 is looking likewise. I hope jhe does not turn it around.

Nailed it there C & B....To much sitting around waiting for it to all happen at the MFC which is exactly the reason i wish the FD revamp had occurred at the end of the 2009 season..But it didn't.

What a load of carp. If you can mature past the silver bullet one off solutions and the turgid displays of melodrama you might display a little more nous than the petty "No more excuses". The issues go well beyond the FD revamp and its insulting and ignorant to such there had been too much sitting around. The Club has always realised the challenge before it. Its been made increasing difficult through a number of issues beyond its control including Stynes, Scully/GWS and other off field matters.

[Demon SeaMan 108]

Sittin here wasted & wounded on this old ceramic bowl

Trying hard to capture the moment- this mornin I don't know

But Rd22 07 still sits in my head

I wish that our players could've just stayed in bed

And We could've been--top4 contenders this yr

I want to see a parting of the sea by Moses

But tonight I sleep on a bed of f nails

I want to be just as close as

The holy mother of all demonland posts is

I don't want to lay down no more

With a team of posers

MBC singing version Bed of Roses good night

[MadAsHell 4,089]

Typical doom & gloom and selective memory from Demonlanders, Carlton started their rebuild 2 years before us FFS, Carlton started their rebuild in 2002, we started ours in 2008. They were hampered for 2/3 years after salary cap breaches and draft restrictions. It took them 7 years to get back in the 8.

Best comment so far, Carlton had a shocking 2002 and started their rebuild from there, where as Melbourne were still playing finals till the end of 2006. Lets give it time, it took Carlton several years to turn things around with all their resources, it will probably take us at least equally as long and we've had more distractions to deal with then they did.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,866]

But it's so much more than bottoming out and gaining two or three guns. It takes more than that to become a premiership threat.

Despite being down and out for a few years, Carlton as an organization, from those than run it to the supporters (who must surely be the most annoying lot out there) never lost their swagger.

They have a winning mentality deep in their psyche that club. It's something we lack and I think secretly many of us envy in them.

The difference is they knew they had to tank and did it with arrogance.

We knew we had to tank and it caused an existential crisis within our club.

[dee-luded 2,958]

The difference is they knew they had to tank and did it with arrogance.

We knew we had to tank and it caused an existential crisis within our club.

Daniher coached his last game against the Bombers, Rnd 13 - 2007 for a narrow loss.

Bomber riley took over for the next game against Carltank, Rnd 14, which Melbourne won?

http://demonwiki.org/Neale+Daniher

Carlton were already on the maximum allowable premiership points (16). One more win or draw, would see them miss out on a priority pick that year.

http://en.wikipedia....der_progression

Possibly handing Kreuzer to the Tigers and Cotchin to Melbourne....

[Sir Why You Little 35,394]

Carlton lost R22 for a reason and did not spank us at all. It gave them the cards to snare Judd and Kruezer.

Traper left MFC to dominate quite happily. Really?? Trapper was a gameboy culture sore who did zip at Brisbane for whom we traded for one of our Captain's.

Corrupt webs and paperbags....no wonder you are so sick with the overdose of melodrama.

For the sake of the truth, six years ago Carlton had neither the swagger nor the winning mentality. Carlton have got back through good organisation, good people behind the scenes, recruiting Judd and loads of Pratt money that prevented them from doing a can rattle.

If you think it is just because that they started 2 years before us you greatly mistaken.

And Morton a number 1 draft pick in 2007??.....pull the other one. Morton's issues at MFC would be the same and magnified at other Clubs. I hope he turns it around but his selection at No 4 by Cameron is looking like a waste at the moment and Maric delisted lat year and selected at pick 20 is looking likewise. I hope jhe does not turn it around.

What a load of carp. If you can mature past the silver bullet one off solutions and the turgid displays of melodrama you might display a little more nous than the petty "No more excuses". The issues go well beyond the FD revamp and its insulting and ignorant to such there had been too much sitting around. The Club has always realised the challenge before it. Its been made increasing difficult through a number of issues beyond its control including Stynes, Scully/GWS and other off field matters.

You really trying to tell me Carlscum did not spank the Mfc For the Kreuzer Cup Rhino???

Get your hand off it please.

[Guest Dr Who]

For the sake of the truth, six years ago Carlton had neither the swagger nor the winning mentality. Carlton have got back through good organisation, good people behind the scenes, recruiting Judd and loads of Pratt money that prevented them from doing a can rattle.

Rhino although I agree with you. I will never forget the very next game we played Carlton after the infamous K-Cup. It was at the MCG approx Round 4 the following year - I was sitting in a nest of Carlton supporters - they gave it to us all day - the supporters where arrogant as I've ever seen at the MCG. At one stage Juddy ran off the ground it was like the second coming - he instantly returned their swagger as a supporter group.

[Redleg 38,766]

Rhino although I agree with you. I will never forget the very next game we played Carlton after the infamous K-Cup. It was at the MCG approx Round 4 the following year - I was sitting in a nest of Carlton supporters - they gave it to us all day - the supporters where arrogant as I've ever seen at the MCG. At one stage Juddy ran off the ground it was like the second coming - he instantly returned their swagger as a supporter group.

That is my memory of the game as well.

[Sir Why You Little 35,394]

Carlton never lost their swagger. They are still $7-8 million in debt now. They don't care. It is only a small concern to them.

They alteady know with onfield success it will go.

Edited April 14, 2012 by why you little

[Redleg 38,766]

The sad thing is that when the media talks about tanking it is always us that gets dragged up as the example and then on top of that we lost the player we got for doing it. No other club has lost their number 1 pick within 2 years. Even Gary was taken a lot further down the list as a father/son selection.

The use of the two compo picks is absolutely vital to our future IMO. Use them well, plus Jack Viney and maybe another good selection later and we are well on the way. Add these players to a young list with several players at about 50-60 games and you are in a far better position than we are at the moment.

[Arrow 1,257]

Carlton never lost their swagger. They are still $7-8 million in debt now. They don't care. It is only a small concern to them.

They alteady know with onfield success it will go.

More like they know they can call on a 'sponsors donation' at any second and Mrs.Pratt will remove it with a click of her old fingers.

Why would they worry about it!

[wisedog 332]

But it's so much more than bottoming out and gaining two or three guns. It takes more than that to become a premiership threat.

Despite being down and out for a few years, Carlton as an organization, from those than run it to the supporters (who must surely be the most annoying lot out there) never lost their swagger.

They have a winning mentality deep in their psyche that club. It's something we lack and I think secretly many of us envy in them.

Well they were a pretty miserable lot under Pagan. From memory he attempted to top up the list with mature-agers and they had a brief resurgance in 2004 before dramatically falling away. Much like Melbourne, in the end they had no other option but to rebuild. The 'swagger' seemed to return when Pratt, Swann and Judd came on the scene.

I had actually forgotten just how long Carlton were down for. It seems a list overhaul will keep you down for a good 5-7 years.

2002 - 16th

2003 - 15th

2004 - 11th

2005 - 16th

2006 - 16th

2007 - 15th

2008 - 11th

2009 - 7th

Admittedly, Carlton lost their top selections in 2002, but I think we can take heart from Carlton's improvement after years in the wilderness.

[Sir Why You Little 35,394]

More like they know they can call on a 'sponsors donation' at any second and Mrs.Pratt will remove it with a click of her old fingers.

Why would they worry about it!

Exactly.

[Chook 14,711]

The sad thing is that when the media talks about tanking it is always us that gets dragged up as the example and then on top of that we lost the player we got for doing it. No other club has lost their number 1 pick within 2 years. Even Gary was taken a lot further down the list as a father/son selection.

The use of the two compo picks is absolutely vital to our future IMO. Use them well, plus Jack Viney and maybe another good selection later and we are well on the way. Add these players to a young list with several players at about 50-60 games and you are in a far better position than we are at the moment.

Carlton used to get the tanking label, but they couldn't give two sh*ts, so the media stopped bringing it up as soon as they started winning again. We should have the same attitude. Who gives a rat's tossbag what the media says?

Edited April 14, 2012 by Chook

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Well they were a pretty miserable lot under Pagan. From memory he attempted to top up the list with mature-agers and they had a brief resurgance in 2004 before dramatically falling away. Much like Melbourne, in the end they had no other option but to rebuild. The 'swagger' seemed to return when Pratt, Swann and Judd came on the scene.

I had actually forgotten just how long Carlton were down for. It seems a list overhaul will keep you down for a good 5-7 years.

2002 - 16th

2003 - 15th

2004 - 11th

2005 - 16th

2006 - 16th

2007 - 15th

2008 - 11th

2009 - 7th

Admittedly, Carlton lost their top selections in 2002, but I think we can take heart from Carlton's improvement after years in the wilderness.

Then there's Richmond. This year to be the 10th consecutive year missing the finals, a feat they have only managed twice in the last 30 years. Obviously with all those bottom finishes they have picked up Delidio, Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Vickery etc but they are still shizen.

Their sunrise has just never come, much like us.

[Clintosaurus 6,969]

The difference is Carlton is a ruthless club who will do anything to be successful, but we don't seem to take it as seriously.

[Sir Why You Little 35,394]

The difference is Carlton is a ruthless club who will do anything to be successful, but we don't seem to take it as seriously.

The MFC does not know how to be ruthless. We had power when the VFL was an amateur comp.