3 Ruckmen/Forwards In One Side

[Guest Dr Who]

Can you get away with 3 Ruckmen/Forward types in modern day AFL football especially with the 3/1 sub rule?

At some stage do you have to bite the bullet and only have 2 Ruck/Forwards?

Are you not just massively impacting your mid-field running rotations ability - so in reality your mid-field runners will fatigue quicker - because we are one rotation down.

Look I accept North were unlucky to lose but you have to wonder - if it wont work with Petrie, Goldstein & MacIntosh - where will it work?

Just a thought.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Can you get away with 3 Ruckmen/Forward types in modern day AFL football especially with the 3/1 sub rule?

At some stage do you have to bite the bullet and only have 2 Ruck/Forwards?

Are you not just massively impacting your mid-field running rotations ability - so in reality your mid-field runners will fatigue quicker - because we are one rotation down.

Look I accept North were unlucky to lose but you have to wonder - if it wont work with Petrie, Goldstein & MacIntosh - where will it work?

Just a thought.

Nice distraction who.

IMO we can.

If 2 are very mobile Talls who mark the ball well.

[Guest fitness]

I've been thinking a lot about this lately. I am of the firm belief that as talented as he might be, Stef Martin should not be in our starting 22. For a couple of reasons:

1) In Jamar's dominant season of footy in 2010, he played almsot every game as the sole ruckman. I think this brings out his best footy, and at his best he is crucial to our chances of success.

2) When the Russian went down injured last year, Stef Martin performed fantastically well as the #1 ruckman, without a doubt - however I don't believe he is worth being played in our side as predominantly a key forward. He simply isn't damaging enough and I reckon we'd get far better value out of another small (e.g. Bennell) or mid-range (e.g. Dunn) player up in the pocket.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Stef fan, however not as a key forward which is primary role in the side right now. I don't think they should be picking him just for the sake of having a backup ruckman in the side. Mitch Clark should do this for the five minutes each quarter Jamar will be off the ground.

[drdrake 3,049]

Yes, but they have a lot of work to do to learn to work away from each other. It is almost nominating a decoy that leads to a spot just to take his defender with him well away from the contest. Saturday we all went to the same spot and unless we take mark of thge year we had no chance to mark the footy.

Be playing 3 talls it means our mid size forwards become more dangerous, we have Howe, Petterd, Jurrah, Sylvia, Dunn that you need a taller defender as they have the ability to play tall, I still think our forward line once they start getting better supply and work together is very stong and dangerous.

[Guest Dr Who]

Yeah I'm not convinced yet - will be watching this with interest. But at this stage I'm more with "Fitness" but obviously hope it does work.

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

Great thread.

I know Jamar can take a mark but other than those 5 goals against Carlton that day he's never really shown he can play forward. With Clark always forward it seems like it might be ruck or bench for Jamar, as we could just be too tall and slow with 2 ruckman forward.

Stef Martin is a 6ft 6" gorilla that plays like an outside wingman. No physical presence, and close to useless in the air. Regularly jumps into packs with 1 arm up like a basketballer and really prefers to leap high and try and take it on his chest. He's also about 25 now so I'm not sure how long we can hold onto him for those one or two Buddy-like teases he provides us with each season. I can never see him taking a game by the scruff and kicking 5.

It all depends on whether Gawn's body can hold up, but I would have Stef Martin on the trade-table at the end of this season. Last year Richmond were that desperate you would have got their first round pick for him. You have to give something good to get something good and we have a surplus of ruck/forwards, 3rd tall forwards and slow inside midfielders. Unless you want to trade Petterd, or someone is silly enough to give us something decent for Moloney, then I think Stef is the bait.

[Angelus BTVS 31]

I'd play Stef down back to take on the oppositions gorilla forward. Hes quick over the first 10 is strong and gives him a set task to perform. Frees up garland/rivers/frawley from having to constantly play on the bigger bodies who always monster us. I'd like to get to a point where melbourne defenders have a size advantage over thier opponents rather than the other way round.

[Satan 2,786]

this week we need big guys, lynch, kennedy, darling, cox and nic nac will monster us in the fwd line

[Axis of Bob 10,365]

Cox, Naitanui, Lynch.

Then there's their actually key forward, in Kennedy.

[Striker475 696]

Lynch isn't a ruck IMO.

The prime example is Essendon with Ryder/Hille/Bellchambers, doesn't really work.

There is a risk of going too tall with the timber - that said, if you have a super-mobile 198cm forward who can pinch hit as a #2 a la Leighroy Brown it makes for nice depth.

I honestly think you need one out-and-out ruck (Jamar, Gawn) and one forward-ruck (Clark). Stef Martin is absolutely a bonus player, there's very few rucks who can play well in defence as well.

[Chook 14,613]

You can go three talls like that if one's a dominant ruckman or is great around the ground (Cox, or in our case Jamar), another is a great forward option (Petrie, or in our case Clark) and the third takes the opposition ruckman when he's in defence (practically no-one in the AFL can do this except Stefan Martin). IMO, the only way you can go with the three talls setup is if you spread the load across the ground.

You usually need a big man to defend the opposition ruckman resting forward, and Martin's our best candidate for the job anyway - and he can spend time in the ruck. Perfect.

Martin back/ruck, Jamar ruck/forward, Clark forward/ruck when necessary.

[Guest Dr Who]

You can go three talls like that if one's a dominant ruckman or is great around the ground (Cox, or in our case Jamar), another is a great forward option (Petrie, or in our case Clark) and the third takes the opposition ruckman when he's in defence (practically no-one in the AFL can do this except Stefan Martin). IMO, the only way you can go with the three talls setup is if you spread the load across the ground.

You usually need a big man to defend the opposition ruckman resting forward, and Martin's our best candidate for the job anyway - and he can spend time in the ruck. Perfect.

Martin back/ruck, Jamar ruck/forward, Clark forward/ruck when necessary.

Can you then fit Sellar in the same side?

Edited April 4, 2012 by Dr Who

[Chook 14,613]

Can you then fit Sellar in the same side?

Against the Eagles, yes. But at the expense of Macdonald or Rivers.

PS, go back to your old avatar. That picture of the TARDIS is great.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Chook

[Striker475 696]

Can you then fit Sellar in the same side?

Yeah, depends on the opposition and their forward setup. You'd put Sellar (who is, by Adelaide accounts, garbage in the ruck anyway) on their biggest non-ruck forward. So, for example, in the case of West Coast

- Sellar to Lynch

- Martin to Naitnui/Cox (whichever is down there)

- Jamar on the ball

- Clark forward

[Guest Dr Who]

I'm going to bump this thread - I'm convinced we cant play Clark, Jamar, Martin & Sellar all in the same side - its killing us.

[Chook 14,613]

I'm going to bump this thread - I'm convinced we cant play Clark, Jamar, Martin & Sellar all in the same side - its killing us.

Agreed. Martin also is not a forward and should be put in the backline and given instructions not to be too daring when he gets the ball.

[Nasher 33,166]

Agreed. Martin also is not a forward and should be put in the backline and given instructions not to be too daring when he gets the ball.

Martin might not be doing that well as a forward, but what's the point of playing him in backline? He doesn't add anything back there that we need. He either needs to usurp Jamar as the number one ruck, or figure out how to be an effective forward. Otherwise there's no role for him in the side and it's bye-bye.

I found it interesting that we went with Sellar as the second ruck instead of Martin yesterday. If we consider Sellar to be a ruckman-forward, then he and Martin are in direct competition with one another for a spot in the side. There isn't room in the side for both in that role.

[Chook 14,613]

Martin might not be doing that well as a forward, but what's the point of playing him in backline? He doesn't add anything back there that we need. He either needs to usurp Jamar as the number one ruck, or figure out how to be an effective forward. Otherwise there's no role for him in the side and it's bye-bye.

I found it interesting that we went with Sellar as the second ruck instead of Martin yesterday. If we consider Sellar to be a ruckman-forward, then he and Martin are in direct competition with one another for a spot in the side. There isn't room in the side for both in that role.

He frees up Frawley for one thing, and is better than Rivers one-on-one. He could also replace Sellar who's just barely going at the moment down back. In fact, Sellar makes a better forward than Martin anyway, so the two should exchange positions at the very least.

[ox_5 163]

I don't think we had three rucks/forwards in yesterday.

We had Jamar - solely a ruck.

We had Clark - in our team is solely a forward

We had Martin - neither, the guy is a basketballer with no idea how to play AFL footy.

[MadAsHell 4,089]

Nice distraction who.

IMO we can.

If 2 are very mobile Talls who mark the ball well.

Agree Dee-luded, but it has to be the right mix. For example Russian as the number 1 ruck and then say Clark & Fitzpatrick forward, but forwards who can play in the ruck. I'm starting to think Stef's biggest problem is that he's not a natural forward.

[Nasher 33,166]

He frees up Frawley for one thing, and is better than Rivers one-on-one. He could also replace Sellar who's just barely going at the moment down back. In fact, Sellar makes a better forward than Martin anyway, so the two should exchange positions at the very least.

Frees up Frawley to do what? Frawley does fine at being an attacking option and a checking defender at the same time. I don't think he'd "attack more" if he had a lesser opponent.

If Sellar makes a better forward than Martin, then Sellar should be the ruckman/forward (assuming he's competent in the ruck), and Martin should be out of the side.

I don't think we had three rucks/forwards in yesterday. We had Jamar - solely a ruck. We had Clark - in our team is solely a forward We had Martin - neither, the guy is a basketballer with no idea how to play AFL footy.

Sellar played as a ruck/forward.

I didn't see anyone mentioning how Martin was just a basketballer and not a footballer through his purple patch last year when Jamar was out. I know he's not playing well at the moment, but how short are our memories? He's not without hope of redemption like you and others imply.

[Chook 14,613]

Frees up Frawley to do what? Frawley does fine at being an attacking option and a checking defender at the same time. I don't think he'd "attack more" if he had a lesser opponent.

That's exactly what I think he would do. Martin back would put either Rivers or Sellar out of the side, with Martin contesting the ruck and taking the opposition ruckman as he rests forward. He'd be perfect at manning up a Cox/Naitanui/Petrie/Goldstein type when they're not rucking. He could also probably match it with Cloke and Dawes, too. He has far more upside than Sellar and Rivers, and for that reason should not be out of the side.

[Nasher 33,166]

Martin contesting the ruck and taking the opposition ruckman as he rests forward.

So when does Martin rest? He'd be doing more work than any other player on the field with that kind of role. You can't "rest" in defence in the same way you can rest in the forward line.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Martin got dragged at 3/4 time. Had another poor game.

I would think he might go to Casey next week and they try and pnch hit with Sellar in the ruck and bring in another small.

Sellar took some really good contested marks but needs to improve his decision making. Martin cant mark.

[Chook 14,613]

So when does Martin rest? He'd be doing more work than any other player on the field with that kind of role. You can't "rest" in defence in the same way you can rest in the forward line.

He'd be the second ruckman, altenating between the bench, the backline and the ruck. The fact that defenders clock up the largest portion of time on the ground out of any position suggests that it is not impossibly taxing to spend time in the backline as a ruckman.